Xen, regarding the naps, how long before your workout would you nap? I work a normal 9-5 and train in the evenings. On monday’s and fridays I’ve got rugby at 9pm and most the time I’m pretty dead by that time of night. I’ve tried napping before but it seems like it takes my body too long to wake back up and the first half of practice I’m sluggish as hell (well, more sluggish than usual at least).
They were usually longer, 30-45 minute, naps though and usually ended like half an hour to an hour before practice. I’m wondering if it might be better if I took a 20 minute nap right when I got home at like 6 and then had enough time to wake back up before practice.
Also, funny you should write about the feeder/recovery workouts. I just posted about the same thing this morning in the beginners forum, I think the thread was “need help ASAP” or some such.
[quote]spurlock wrote:
Training manual laborers in the gym for performance enhancement is a waste of time and in some cases can actually become counter-productive.
[/quote]
It can also be very productive, but emphasis must be put on what is needed.
Mobility, balance and flexability, included in this is training up the weaknesses- are where I see the greatest potential for improvement of performance at work.
There is actualy a whole branch of medicine developing around vocational/industrial workplace performance.
Most of it(with as little as I know about it) deals with ergonomics and the treatment and prevention of repetative motion injury.
In my own experience, what worked best was to get range of motion to an optimal point, or as good as possible, then train for strength in the muscle groups that are used the least.
Training muscle groups that are already overused is counterproductive.
Regarding chains and bands: I agree for the most part except if your goal is to be an elite PL. In this case, I agree more with Chuck Vogelpohl–build up as much strength and speed as possible with chains first, and only use the bands when you’re really strong.
In other words, save yourself from early adaptation to a potentially awesome method (ie. early specialization syndrome). Question is when do you start? That I don’t know, but I’m trying to stay away from bands myself, even though I’ve already used them. I want to reach as high a peak as possible.
Naps–
I treat my naps as another overnight sleep for the purposes of a training session–I try to give myself at least 2 hours, preferrably more, before workout. I found that I need at least an hour bare minimum (with spike) to wake up enough to lift heavy. Otherwise my CNS doesn’t energize.
My naps, when I actually get them, are usually 1.5-3 hours long. Shorter ones just make me feel bad. I tried them for years, finally gave up, unless it’s an emergency last resort after an all nighter (exam day or something).
Just on a whim, decided to choke mini bands around the base of the squat rack directly under the bar (not in the middle like normal) for my DE squats. When you unrack the weight the bands try to pull you forward and down (almost like a GM), and you have to sit back a lot more to keep upright.
Not like a banded squat (overspeed). Just an idea to keep from falling forward in posture. Feels really new and potentially really good.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
spurlock wrote:
Training manual laborers in the gym for performance enhancement is a waste of time and in some cases can actually become counter-productive.
It can also be very productive, but emphasis must be put on what is needed.
Mobility, balance and flexability, included in this is training up the weaknesses- are where I see the greatest potential for improvement of performance at work.
There is actualy a whole branch of medicine developing around vocational/industrial workplace performance.
Most of it(with as little as I know about it) deals with ergonomics and the treatment and prevention of repetative motion injury.
In my own experience, what worked best was to get range of motion to an optimal point, or as good as possible, then train for strength in the muscle groups that are used the least.
Training muscle groups that are already overused is counterproductive.
[/quote]
Ergonomics, flexibility, range of motion and mobility can be trained equally well in strongman-type programs/protocol (along with work-related grip training, at varying tempos, speeds of movement, rest/reps/set protocol, etc.). These are also a sort of by-product of manual labor environments, since all biomotor abilities would be necessary to some degree in order for proficiency.
What I really take issue with is, someone coming out to the job site with big, pretty show muscles that can’t lift a broom without being in the lordotic lifting posture. Then you give him something actually heavy to move and it just about kills him.
naps dude are highly individual imo, cause aragon felt bad with short ones. well short ones make me feel great, long one’s make me feel HORRIBLE.
I usually napped right after my shower. So as soon as possible after my workout. Never napped before hand I dont think that would workout too well.
[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Xen, regarding the naps, how long before your workout would you nap? I work a normal 9-5 and train in the evenings. On monday’s and fridays I’ve got rugby at 9pm and most the time I’m pretty dead by that time of night. I’ve tried napping before but it seems like it takes my body too long to wake back up and the first half of practice I’m sluggish as hell (well, more sluggish than usual at least).
They were usually longer, 30-45 minute, naps though and usually ended like half an hour to an hour before practice. I’m wondering if it might be better if I took a 20 minute nap right when I got home at like 6 and then had enough time to wake back up before practice.
Also, funny you should write about the feeder/recovery workouts. I just posted about the same thing this morning in the beginners forum, I think the thread was “need help ASAP” or some such.
I’ve said this in other threads on here, but I’m a big believer of overloaded, partial-range work. For example, using 90-110% of your 1RM of the full ROM movement and doing some high box squats or 4 board presses. This helps prepare you mentally for setting new pr’s on the full ROM movement.
The first time you attempt to bench 405, for example, the 405 will feel very heavy and the weight will be very intimidating. However, if you have been routinely using 405 for some partials and holding that weight in your hand, it won’t be nearly as intimidating.
Also, I have just recently began to use this with my overhead press, but with a twist. I set the pins in the rack just a couple inches below where my hands would be at full extension in the OH press, load the bar, and stand up with the weight in an overhead lockout. It looks like a very limited ROM overhead squat. I use a weight significantly higher than my 1RM on my push press and I hold the position for time, usually 10-30 seconds. I’m trying this out to work my core and my stability in my overhead lifts.
I agree with you on that, sometimes I dont even do partials, I’ll just walk out a heavier weight or hold it in lock out a few times, and just so i get over it mentally and try for that weight next session.
helped me a lot.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I’ve said this in other threads on here, but I’m a big believer of overloaded, partial-range work. For example, using 90-110% of your 1RM of the full ROM movement and doing some high box squats or 4 board presses. This helps prepare you mentally for setting new pr’s on the full ROM movement.
The first time you attempt to bench 405, for example, the 405 will feel very heavy and the weight will be very intimidating. However, if you have been routinely using 405 for some partials and holding that weight in your hand, it won’t be nearly as intimidating.
Also, I have just recently began to use this with my overhead press, but with a twist. I set the pins in the rack just a couple inches below where my hands would be at full extension in the OH press, load the bar, and stand up with the weight in an overhead lockout. It looks like a very limited ROM overhead squat. I use a weight significantly higher than my 1RM on my push press and I hold the position for time, usually 10-30 seconds. I’m trying this out to work my core and my stability in my overhead lifts.[/quote]
Since Xen seemed impressed by my Overhead strength, I figure I’ll start off with some of that stuff…(these are all my opinions and things that have worked for me)
I love, LOVE chains for overhead lifting. I’ve used bands, but that can be tricky setting it up…
Chains, however are much easier.
You have to set up a platform or soemthing at the right height so the chains dont just swing. You can be ghetto like me and use buckets. Works for me tho. I think I have some pics of this ugly set up somewhere…
Chains help with lock-out, build up the triceps, and help you learn to drive the whole way up…hesitate and fail.
–There is a lot of value to doing a super heavy partial push press. Lets say you can do 200…walk out with 250 and dip and drive. When you go back to 200, it’ll fly.
–Something that gets missed a lot…if you want a strong press, jerk, push press, ect…you better have a very strong front squat!
Seems obvious, but I’ve seen too many guys ask me how to put 300 overhead only to find out they F.SQT 150.
–During an overhead press, the bar should go straight up, and the head goes back, then thru the hole. Hard to explain…bill starr wrote about this.
–Have strong traps too…most people get really surprised how sore their traps get when they press heavy.
You guys ever feel drained after doing walkouts/holds?
I have been toying with the idea of doing heavy walkouts for my squat. I tried them only once before, and they drained me. I’m thinking maybe just during my 2nd movement, b/c I’m gunning for a PR Monday on GMs. Last week I turned my 3RM into a 5RM with a bit in the tank, no belt (where I’d used a belt before). You guys do them after a movement, or interspersed with a movement?
It’s a mental block. I’m plenty strong to get the squat up. I know it too.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
naps dude are highly individual imo, cause aragon felt bad with short ones. well short ones make me feel great, long one’s make me feel HORRIBLE.
I usually napped right after my shower. So as soon as possible after my workout. Never napped before hand I dont think that would workout too well.
m0dd3r wrote:
Xen, regarding the naps, how long before your workout would you nap? I work a normal 9-5 and train in the evenings. On monday’s and fridays I’ve got rugby at 9pm and most the time I’m pretty dead by that time of night. I’ve tried napping before but it seems like it takes my body too long to wake back up and the first half of practice I’m sluggish as hell (well, more sluggish than usual at least).
They were usually longer, 30-45 minute, naps though and usually ended like half an hour to an hour before practice. I’m wondering if it might be better if I took a 20 minute nap right when I got home at like 6 and then had enough time to wake back up before practice.
Also, funny you should write about the feeder/recovery workouts. I just posted about the same thing this morning in the beginners forum, I think the thread was “need help ASAP” or some such.
Jay
[/quote]
Naps are emergency only for me. Even 15 minutes is dangerous…if i dont get groggy, then I’ll have trouble going to sleep at night.
But, on a non-lifting day…like a sunday…they are oh so glorious.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
vision1 wrote:
I think ankle extension work is more important than most people think. If you leave it off for lets say a year, and gain 10 lbs, you’re setting yourself up for injury. The ankle is the base of everything, and it isn’t a good area to have as a weakest link.
I think ankle extension strength should increase ATLEAST at the same rate as BW increases. Even more if you’re getting stronger. If you can jump higher, you’re going to land with more force.
well couldn’t you just spend some time without shoes. I do that sometimes when I golf. I will walk over a couple a miles in a day and i will walk it all without shoes. I think that would make up for it. plus i’ll do squats without shoes on in my backyard. do you think this would be good enough?[/quote]
That’s weird that you say that. The only sprained ankle I ever had was when I was 12. I have big strong ankles and I do walk around without shoes the great majority of the time. Even in winter.
I’ve done sprints shoeless…walked the dog shoeless…lifted shoeless…I get made fun of for it, but I guess it helped me.
We have two tables fairly close to eachother at work…we do dips…nothing big, maybe a set of 5, here and there througout the day.
I might do leg raises there too.
My gym is in my garage, so if i go to the kitched, I’ll walk out into the garage, and maybe do some pull ups. Or curls (bar is always loaded at waist height in the rack with either 140, 160 or 170).
I might do band pushdowns on my lunch break…whatever…it’s just getting in more and more work, but not really working out.
Then, on saturdays…a day I just can never get “up” for…I’ll do a more traditional feeder type workout.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
You guys ever feel drained after doing walkouts/holds?
I have been toying with the idea of doing heavy walkouts for my squat. I tried them only once before, and they drained me. I’m thinking maybe just during my 2nd movement, b/c I’m gunning for a PR Monday on GMs. Last week I turned my 3RM into a 5RM with a bit in the tank, no belt (where I’d used a belt before). You guys do them after a movement, or interspersed with a movement?
It’s a mental block. I’m plenty strong to get the squat up. I know it too. [/quote]
Do what you feel comfortable with…but I think this sport is more mental than physical sometimes.
Do what you feel comfortable with…but I think this sport is more mental than physical sometimes.
[/quote]
Ditto that. For some reason, your post made me start thinking about this, so I’m going to write it out. You know, being a scientist type, I’m always looking for the best/optimal/quickest/efficient route.
I think it’s helped a great deal in my understanding and drive towards achieving my goals, but sometimes I just lose sight of doing something in an organizational scheme that exists solely because it is comfortable instead of optimal. Does it really hurt the effectiveness of the movement that much if I do the walkouts after my first 2 exercises?
Does it really get a significant potentiation if I do them before and between sets? Will they really be ineffective if I just do them on their own after my two main movements? I think not, now that I’m wondering about it. Just do it.
Incidentally, I’ve had a lot of fun just blasting myself into oblivion in my upper body workouts lately. I don’t know that it’ll really help my bench, but man it was fun. I haven’t done stuff like this in years. New movements, super-giant sets, random things that I think of in the middle of a session, it’s a blast. I first and foremost want to get my numbers up, and I am willing to do the same movements year in and out if they’ll do the trick. Whatever it takes.
But I’m really enjoying just dicking around with stuff I’ve never done before just because it makes me work hard. This last upper body session was 3+ hours long just because I felt good. And it was not a drag, it was awesome to just keep working for that long.
I think sometimes that change is key…I have, for most of my post-H.S. lifting career, written my own programs. I’m fairly rigid in following them…but, I’ve always advocated a “crazy” day. It’s not planned, I just do it when it feels right. Maybe I’m tired, or sore joints, or just mentally tired…
then I’ll do whatever is the complete opposite of what I was doing. It could be BB stuff, crazy high reps, sprints combined with high rep stuff (litinov) or even just going to the park with the dog and sprinting, jumping, doing pull ups and dips and push ups and squat jumps…whatever.
Or, it could even be as simple as gettin together with of friends and playing a friendly game of football…they last for hours and leave me tired and sore in odd spots, but that’s the kind of stuff that is immesurable when it comes to progress.
Like I wrote earlier…I usually write my own programs and never liked following anyone else’s.
But, recently I decided to give one a try. I’m writing an article about it for Get UP! so I wont go into much detail, but I’m very pleased with the results…
It’s made me consider doing something as crazy as following my high school program. I have every workout logged from then and we had a great coach, but it was obviously a very beginner level program, and way more volume than i do now…this could be interesting!
I need a strong lower back in golf. On my squats i will offset the weights on my squats maybe twenty pounds more on each side. and cycle the side set by set. This should really get my core working in order to balance the weight.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
vision1 wrote:
I think ankle extension work is more important than most people think. If you leave it off for lets say a year, and gain 10 lbs, you’re setting yourself up for injury. The ankle is the base of everything, and it isn’t a good area to have as a weakest link.
I think ankle extension strength should increase ATLEAST at the same rate as BW increases. Even more if you’re getting stronger. If you can jump higher, you’re going to land with more force.
well couldn’t you just spend some time without shoes. I do that sometimes when I golf. I will walk over a couple a miles in a day and i will walk it all without shoes. I think that would make up for it. plus i’ll do squats without shoes on in my backyard. do you think this would be good enough?[/quote]
I always lift without shoes. I remember reading that this is great for developing balance somewhere, as for ankle strength I don’t know but I’ve never had any ankle problems. I have, however, developed a bunion on my left foot.