High Frequency Squatting

Training
1 
 Just an open thread, Which I might update periodically. I want to lay out my current training, problems, and diet out and see if anyone has any criticism. I'm living in a small town currently and I'm usually the most experienced lifter in the gym at any given time, unfortunately. After rereading "IS how do you train" I was inspired to look into Horton's nemesis. I recently finished Dr. Zourdos' 6 week DUP routine, and I enjoyed it, although results didn't pan out like I hoped.

 By the last week of the DUP routine I was having some nasty pain to the left of my tailbone, which I believe was from sloppy conventional deadlifting after squatting. I was sleeping very poorly the last week and a half of the cycle, and I was at my job non stop leading up to the end of the program and max testing. After this I took about a week and a half off any heavy lower body training. The low back is still giving me some grief while warming up, and while twisting or doing odd movements. It rarely bothers me squatting, and I have not started deadlifting again.

 While not exactly what is described on Horton's website I've been ramping to a 3 and 1 rep max every other day on the squat and bench press. Following this I still use a kind of DUP method and cycle between a lighter, higher rep "intensifier" a paused or explosive one, and a heavy low rep one. This is similar to the Hypertrophy:Power:Strength rotation of the DUP cycle I just finished.

Stats:
Age:22
5’8"
165-170 pounds
Olympic squat: 320
Bench Press:250
Deadlift: 445

Diet:
Pro: 180g
Fat: 110g
Carbs: 400g
Calories: 3310

Goals:
Increase powerlifting total
2.5 body weight olympic squat
275 bench press
495 deadlift
Dont get fat, stay within cutting distance of 74kg.

I usually do something like this:

A:
Leg curls: 3 sets, ramped to 10-20rm
Olympic squats: Nemesis
DB Fly/Weighted lunge superset: ramp to 10-20rm
Bench Press: Nemesis
Lateral raise 3x10-15
Rear delts: 3x10-15
Biceps: 3x8-12
Triceps1: 3x15-20
Triceps2: 3x8-15
Abs

B:
Leg curls: 3 sets, ramped to 10-20rm
Olympic squats: Nemesis
DB Fly/Weighted lunge superset: ramp to 10-20rm
Bench Press: Nemesis
Lat pulldowns: 4x8-12
DB rows: 3x10-15
DB RDL: 3x10-15
abs
The leg curls/db flys make my squats and bench presses feel a lot better when I do them.

Prior to lifting I foam roll my back, and sometimes my thighs and hip flexors. I use a tennis ball on my glutes, and I perform 5-6 of the following on any given day.
Hollow holds
Crescent yoga pose (looks like a caught split snatch)
single leg glute bridge
Reverse leg lifts
Feet together glute bridge
banded side laying clams
bosu ball calf raises
bosu ball single leg balance excercises
bird dogs
attempting to do “stir the pot”
and a few other excercises

Complaints:
1.Right ankle/top and outer foot pain, has marginally improved wearing a boot to bed and doing the bosu ball excercises. The joint is constantly cracking.
2. Minor SI joint pain, when doing odd movements or twisting. Very much improved in the last week or two.
3. The right hip at the crease feels like it’s pinching during my squat warmups, and sometimes during later working sets if I’m doing a ton of volume.
4: Elbow tenderness, both sides. I work my finger extensors with a rubber band between my bench pressing sets , stretch my forearms and I do ART on the elbows myself at least once a day. The pain comes and goes based on if I slack on this stuff.

I’m seeing an ART practicing chiropractor about twice a month. He’s very supportive of my training.

2

I actually do better going every day on squatting rather than every other day. It keeps me feeling loose and warm and not sore.

On bench the conclusion I’ve come to doesn’t make the most sense. The best setup I’ve found is to press every day but alternate between overhead and bench. Doing that my shoulders and pecs stay happy. It is even better than just benching every other day. If I bench every day, crap always hurts. If I lower frequency to every other day, stuff still always hurts. But if I bench every other day and do overhead press on the between days everything feels great. It?s more pressing, more volume, less rest, and less shoulder/elbow/pec problems. Go figure.

I’ve become a believer in different tissues recovering at different rates. Muscles recover faster than tendons and ligaments. If you hit something daily the difference in recovery is minimal. If you go to a medium frequency (3 days a week or so) muscle is recovered more than other stuff and it can cause problems. For me, I will either do low frequency where EVERYTHING is fully recovered or very high frequency where all the tissues are equal because nothing is fully recovered. Hence I haven?t done well with 3 or 4 day style DUP programming.

The other thing I’ve found is that with higher frequency there is larger variation in performance. Some days just plain suck. Some days, everything seems right. You sleep well, your diet was all on point, you feel good, and then everything is crap when you start training. And sometimes it’s the opposite. You do everything wrong, but training feels great. Because of that I don’t like to plan back off work or even decide to do a daily max until I’m lifting. I much prefer basing the day on a daily minimum, not on a daily max. That means on crap days you can shut it down even before you get to a daily max much less back off work, but you have to at least go in and hit your minimum. I’ve found that if I push anyway and hit even just a daily max on crap days, it can make the next day crap too, but if I just hit my min (get the blood flowing and grease the groove) and call it a day, generally the next day will be a really good session.

The foot note to this is that you can plan sessions on high frequency, and push yourself through on crap days BUT you must then also plan and stick to de-loads (Nemesis does this). That means if you stick to the plan and train hard when you don’t feel up to it, you also have to de-load and stay away from hard and heavy when the plan says to, even if you feel great. I’ve gotten hurt when I’ve tried to do the hard training but not stuck to the de-loading in planned programs.

For your particular layout, that looks like a ton of accessory stuff, but that really depends on how hard you are pushing it. I don’t feel like I get a lot out of accessory work on high frequency and I don’t do much anymore. At most on weekend workouts where I have more time and energy I’ll do some light pump work or make a conditioning type workout out of a circuit. My “accessory” stuff nowadays is somewhere in between heavy conditioning and light strong man stuff. Carries, sled pulls, swinging a sledge hammer, est. Basically anything that gets me out of breath, gets the blood pumping, is heavy enough to not be cardio, but light and eccentric-less enough to not affect my lifting or make me sore.

3

^^^you are an interesting gentleman. Not to hijack the thread, but would you care to lay out a typical week’s training?

4

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Good Stuff
[/quote]

on frequency:
I’ve decided to squat in some fashion as often as possible. But I will probably continue working to a daily max just every other day. This week I’ll have squatted 5 times, but one of them was work with a resistance band around my knees and only 135 on the bar. I know Broz feels the same way about the recovery rates of different tissues, If I get more beat up increasing the squat frequency will be the first thing I do.

I see where you are coming from on alternating bench and overhead press. Overheard pressing never really agreed with me (except for the HS incline press machine). When this stops working Either graduating to alternating bench with press or bench with upper back work seems to be the most logical next step. As of right now, the DB flys and shoulder warmups have kept my upper body feeling very good. If something changes I know where I will move to. Thanks for the advice. Do you work up to a daily max on the OHP or just work to a set of 3 or 5?

My main concern for squatting daily is that I do quite a lot of lifting at work. Infinite Shore advised to take time working into the higher frequency and to grow into it, so to speak(iirc).

On volume:
I’m no stranger to high volume training. My metabolism crashed while on an extended diet two years ago and I did a four day split where my leg and back days ended up in the 30-40 work set range. I did this with no planned off days, and maybe 2 days off every 3 months. I enjoy training so 3+ hours in the gym is fine with me, but I don’t have the time to train every day, especially like how I am.

I do a lot of “assistance work” but I spend less time training upper back than it takes me to squat on any given day. This is different from how I usually train. I don’t have to catch cleans or anything like that and I don’t think a few sets of arms/lateral delts is even a noticable slice of my weekly workload, I go pretty hard on the arm/back work but it’s a pretty small amount of my training load.

I’m not opposed to squatting daily, but if I do it will probably be 3-4 sessions of daily max+intensifiers a week and I’ll just have to buy a squat rack for my basement and I’ll take some backsquats up to 85-90% every morning before breakfast. I work as a department manager at a grocery store, and I am taking college classes. My commute to work will be ~50 minutes one way when I move in May making time in an actual gym everyday 7 days a week unlikely.

5

[quote]Yogi wrote:
^^^you are an interesting gentleman. Not to hijack the thread, but would you care to lay out a typical week’s training?[/quote]

Not a threadjack at all! I started this thread so the likes of IS, DD, etc could school me, and others in high frequency training. I know you have wrote some stuff on pain relief on here before. Does my warmup/prehab/rehab prior to lifting look acceptable to you? What would you add/remove?

6

I don’t know about me schooling anybody. Basically everything I’ve written here I’ve stolen from someone else. I didn’t know that broz did the tissue thing, I personally stole that from “squat every day” by Matt Perryman (a good book on why every day squatting works). For how I train I’ve learned a lot from CT, Greg Nuckols (who has a really good free bulgarian training for powerlifting book), Broz, and Damien Pezzuti (as well as lots of others).

I do train the overhead the same way I train the bench. Only I do tend to push the overhead work a bit harder because I find it less demanding. My bench has gotten heavy enough it takes longer between sets and is fair more draining especially if I fail a rep. The last time I went for a PR on bench and missed, I was wrecked on pressing for a good 5 or 6 days.

Current training is a bit off from normal because I’m getting over a knee thing (after I dropped a barbell on it). Squatting aggravates it as well as my leg drive on bench.

Yesterday I took a 30 minute brisk walk at lunch (I do this pretty much every day).

lifting at about 5:30 - practiced cleans for about 35-40 minutes and worked up to 255. Then did strict press and worked up to 245 followed quickly by a double at 215 and 5 reps at 165. Finished up by sledge hammering a tire 100 times without a stop (I have a supper heavy all metal hammer).

Today was a crappy day. Lifting I quickly worked up to a 235 clean and then a 345 paused feet up bench (which to give you an idea of how light that is, the day before yesterday I did 375 and 345 for 2 sets of 2).

It’s really really simple. The key is to learn to listen to your body. A little bit of effort into tracking what you are doing and how you are feeling and progressing, along with some time correlating notes to figure what works and what doesn’t does wonders.

7

Update:

Tied my 1 and 3rm squatting 320 and 290 last night. First time I’ve hit the 320 since before I started the DUP program on <5 hours of sleep, 3rd consecutive day of squatting, and after a pretty stressful day at work. I wanted to go home and sleep after my rehab/prehab work but pushed into lifting. When I finished squatting I started to feel some growing inflamation starting in my upper glute and working it’s way into my lower back on the left side. Not exactly sure what I’m going to do. I’ll probably try to get a chiro appointment for Monday, and take a few days off squatting if It doesn’t feel better after walking around all day at work.

8

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Infinite Shore advised to take time working into the higher frequency and to grow into it, so to speak(iirc).
[/quote]

Not what I meant, read my response again (really do it and learn from it).

9

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Infinite Shore advised to take time working into the higher frequency and to grow into it, so to speak(iirc).
[/quote]

Not what I meant, read my response again (really do it and learn from it).[/quote]

I apologize, I must have pulled that out of my ass. You recommend training a movement 6 or 7 times a week with only two days where you really push it and the other days being technique practice. You also caution against hitting the exact same movement all week. This past week I ended up squatting five times. One of my sessions I only used 185 and I put a band around my knees. The other ones I worked up to a max. From here on out I’ll squat every day possible which will range from 4 to 7 days a week.

Left glute/low back still irritated today. Squatted the bar for several sets and went to bench 225Ã?3 235Ã?2 245x1 255x1 which is a 5 lb pr. My gym sessions take forever but I may just squeeze upper back work on the days I squat but don’t bench which should shorten my sessions. I am worried about accruing a lot of stress on my elbows with this type of training, but I’m taking measures to keep them healthy with finger extensor work and stretching my forarms between sets.

Thanks for dropping in.

10

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Infinite Shore advised to take time working into the higher frequency and to grow into it, so to speak(iirc).
[/quote]

Not what I meant, read my response again (really do it and learn from it).[/quote]

I apologize, I must have pulled that out of my ass. You recommend training a movement 6 or 7 times a week with only two days where you really push it and the other days being technique practice. You also caution against hitting the exact same movement all week. This past week I ended up squatting five times. One of my sessions I only used 185 and I put a band around my knees. The other ones I worked up to a max. From here on out I’ll squat every day possible which will range from 4 to 7 days a week, with two, maybe three at most sessions where I max.

Left glute/low back still irritated today. Squatted the bar for several sets and went to bench 225Ã??3 235Ã??2 245x1 255x1 which is a 5 lb pr. My gym sessions take forever but I may just squeeze upper back work on the days I squat but don’t bench which should shorten my sessions. I am worried about accruing a lot of stress on my elbows with this type of training, but I’m taking measures to keep them healthy with finger extensor work and stretching my forarms between sets.

Thanks for dropping in.
[/quote]

11

Really cool video on what a session can look like for a high frequency program. I think this illustrates one of the problems people create in high frequency programs. 7 squat workouts a week can?t look like what your leg day looks like on a once a week split. A session shouldn?t be killing yourself everyday. In this workout everything stayed supper fast and he only did singles from 135 up.

12
13

I knew that video reminded me of someone…

Even the total time taken is almost identical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExYd74SEZfE

14

Little tip for the OP & every beginner who insist for whatever misguided reason that they need some extreme program to move from girly weights to a decent squat: DO THE SMOLOV BASE CYCLE INSTEAD. It covers the itch to do something extreme, but in contrast to the pseudo-Bulgarian squat everyday bullshit is based on sound principles. Because of the latter it actually has an impressive track record (for natties as well).

Do it and thank me later.

15

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Little tip for the OP & every beginner who insist for whatever misguided reason that they need some extreme program to move from girly weights to a decent squat: DO THE SMOLOV BASE CYCLE INSTEAD. It covers the itch to do something extreme, but in contrast to the pseudo-Bulgarian squat everyday bullshit is based on sound principles. Because of the latter it actually has an impressive track record (for natties as well).

Do it and thank me later.[/quote]

Last time I went from squatting every day to smolov I developed tendonitis and an inflamed lower back. Smolov has never worked well for me.

16

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Little tip for the OP & every beginner who insist for whatever misguided reason that they need some extreme program to move from girly weights to a decent squat: DO THE SMOLOV BASE CYCLE INSTEAD. It covers the itch to do something extreme, but in contrast to the pseudo-Bulgarian squat everyday bullshit is based on sound principles. Because of the latter it actually has an impressive track record (for natties as well).

Do it and thank me later.[/quote]

I’ll continue training as is through May. At the end of May school is over and I move out of where I’m renting and into the house I bought. It will be easier for me to commit to a program with set days once school and moving are over with, provided I’m not making great gains doing what I’m already doing. What would you do for bench press while on the Smolov base cycle?

17

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Really cool video on what a session can look like for a high frequency program. I think this illustrates one of the problems people create in high frequency programs. 7 squat workouts a week can?t look like what your leg day looks like on a once a week split. A session shouldn?t be killing yourself everyday. In this workout everything stayed supper fast and he only did singles from 135 up.

I’m probably oblivious but I never thought of moving around like that in the bottom with a bar on my back, I might have to try that next time I warm up.

18

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Little tip for the OP & every beginner who insist for whatever misguided reason that they need some extreme program to move from girly weights to a decent squat: DO THE SMOLOV BASE CYCLE INSTEAD. It covers the itch to do something extreme, but in contrast to the pseudo-Bulgarian squat everyday bullshit is based on sound principles. Because of the latter it actually has an impressive track record (for natties as well).

Do it and thank me later.[/quote]

Last time I went from squatting every day to smolov I developed tendonitis and an inflamed lower back. Smolov has never worked well for me.[/quote]

Well, Smolov IS extreme and exposes any issue (bad form, bad recovery, weak minds,etc.) very quickly. I think I was clear that I don’t recommend Smolov to most people (incl. the OP), but if people INSIST on doing something “crazy/special”, than it is definitely the way to go.

Anyway, I do NOT believe in the pussy versions of the whole daily max approach to “build” a squat. For the latter you would have to go the batshit crazy original Bulgarian approach but NOBODY is doing that, because it most likely leads to death or at least severe depression (no joke). The easy daily max approaches that are currently popular are great for quickly peaking though.

But whatever, nobody listens anyway…

19

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Little tip for the OP & every beginner who insist for whatever misguided reason that they need some extreme program to move from girly weights to a decent squat: DO THE SMOLOV BASE CYCLE INSTEAD. It covers the itch to do something extreme, but in contrast to the pseudo-Bulgarian squat everyday bullshit is based on sound principles. Because of the latter it actually has an impressive track record (for natties as well).

Do it and thank me later.[/quote]

Last time I went from squatting every day to smolov I developed tendonitis and an inflamed lower back. Smolov has never worked well for me.[/quote]

Well, Smolov IS extreme and exposes any issue (bad form, bad recovery, weak minds,etc.) very quickly. I think I was clear that I don’t recommend Smolov to most people (incl. the OP), but if people INSIST on doing something “crazy/special”, than it is definitely the way to go.

Anyway, I do NOT believe in the pussy versions of the whole daily max approach to “build” a squat. For the latter you would have to go the batshit crazy original Bulgarian approach but NOBODY is doing that, because it most likely leads to death or at least severe depression (no joke). The easy daily max approaches that are currently popular are great for quickly peaking though.

But whatever, nobody listens anyway…[/quote]

So what is the correct and only non-stupid way to train the squat?

20

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So what is the correct and only non-stupid way to train the squat?[/quote]

Glad you asked. haha

Hypertrophy (primarily quads) and setup/technique are the only two factors you have to think about. Light/moderate training is at best sub-optimal and probably useless.

I think hitting squats HARD every 5 days ala Fred Hatfield (aka Dr. Squat) is more or less optimal for stimulating hypertrophy. In addition, I really like the idea of squatting with low volume every day to perfect your setup - those sessions are NOT for stimulating hypertrophy or the “grease your groove” bullshit, but simply to find your optimal setup/technique/positions - so goddamn underrated.

Example: HARD days
A. Squat

  • ramp up to DM (start with 5s → 3x → 2x → 1x)
  • drop weight and do 5-8x5 @9-10 RPE (straight weight or ramps)
  • Pump work: no-lock-out reps or 10-15 rep sets or drop sets
    B. Leg press (optional)
    C. Leg Ext. (optional)

Goals: heavy & high volume + pump work - essentially like a BBer but focusing more on getting all the quad work from squats. When in doubt increase the volume…this really should be HARD day.

Setup days example
A. Squat

  • whatever you feel useful that doesn’t comprise whatever else you want to train that day
  • I like pause singles to focus on positions - work up to something moderately challenging and hit a few sets

Goals: Perfect your setup - think Chinese Olympic WLer picture perfect setup/execution

ps: I personally really like Smolov as well. It follows the same principles but spreads the heavy volume across more sessions per week.