Super helpful information. I know not everyone is the same but what T and AI protocol do you use to keep you in the 20-30 range?
Iāve experimented with different levels. For example:
16mg test (ED) with 0.025mg anastrozole (ED) puts me at about 1000 total test, 30 free test, and 25 e2.
30mg test (ED) with 0.0625mg anastrozole (ED) puts me at >1500 total total, 45 free, and 40 e2.
I let my e2 range get a bit higher when I run my test higher. Iām more afraid of low e2 than high e2 based on my experience, and I also like to minimize the amount of anastrozole I take as much as possible.
Both of these dosages work well, with some tradeoffs. I feel like I have more mental clarity at the lower dose, but my body looks and feels better at the higher dose.
The amazing thing about all of this is that it indicates that I was being prescribed 8 times the amount of anastrozole that I needed with my original 1mg/EOD protocol.
1 Like
I was on 1 mg of Arimidex once a week and consistently was low on E2 (<5). Told doc my libido was crap and he rx sildenafil. Told him cut down to .25mg a week against his orders
Now my E2 is 19 and libido is back and no viagra needed.
2 Likes
I am with you. Rather run e2 a bit higher than be in the tank.
1 Like
Thing is 1mg per week is likely enough to crush estrogen but not enough to stimulate gonadotropins to stimulate LH to return to normal and provide normal amounts of E2.
Or you can just take a fraction of the proposed AI or probably none at all and still be in the normal range. Whatās the deal with taking as much drugs as possible to be ānormalā when the same can be achieved with no drugs or minimal doses
Itās a good point. The advantages I see is that no overthinking. Take 1mg EOD and your E2 will be in a healthy range. Also, your balls will work without having to take HCG.
I really wish we had access to the whole study. Would be interesting to see the actual values at each time interval.
Iāve crashed my e2 on AZ so many damn times, itās miserable. Never did I reach a point where I took so much AI that my LH/FSH went up, and I was taking 4mg weekly at one point (on 250mg of test, I was terrified of e2).
It just doesnāt seem to make sense in my mind that crushing e2 would result in the HPTa picking back up again, since we donāt see that when using a SERM to block e2.
Using pellets, that start strong and taper off over time, would have to influence the results at least somewhat. Vs injections that keep TT levels stable (and HPTa suppression constant), would that look different?
IDK, I know Rand advocates for 15-20pg e2 levels, Iām just not sure on the AI dose required to get there.
EDIT: I found the full text
A lot of these guys with undetectable E2 due to heavy AI use, even without symptoms, will pay for it later.
1 Like
I have the whole studyā¦here is dhe LH with and without Anastrozole(keep in mind these guys were taking 1mg every day. Dr. McClain says 1mg EOD)
But I find it very interesting that just by taking 1mg EOD he finds his patients just naturally fall into the 15-20 range. I also noticed that AZ monotherapy with very high doses up to 10mg a day, people tend to settle around 15-20
Paradoxically, you can only get undetectable levels if you donāt take enough Anastrozole. At least according to this study.
Great! Thank you. These were old fat guys with 30+ BMI, their e2 was high to begin with. A high dose of AI for someone who is obese would likely be required.
No change in SHBG is curious, since most ppl say that higher e2 raises SHBG and lower e2 lowers it (Rand says that as well). Doesnāt appear to be the case here.
Iām really confused about the TT/FT measurements here. It gives the units for TT as ng/mL, but the values donāt align with that. 287ng/mL TT would be 28700ng/dL, right? That makes no sense.
FT is given as pg/mL, but the values are single digit? While on pellets with normal SHBG? How does that work?
Hereās another studyā¦this time Anastrozole alone where dosage is 1mg daily and estradiol stays in the range of 15-20.
Thatās not what this study is saying at all, since the dose of AI wasnāt varied during the trial.
All this study tells you is that 1mg of AZ wasnāt enough to completely crush e2 levels in older, obese men on TP therapy.
One theory as to why that occurred is that GTP was elevated with AI use and caused at least some TT/e2 creation.
Yeah this is known; AZ use in naturals usually doesnāt result in crushed e2 levels.
I donāt think soā¦if they would have given these guys 1mg twice a week, Iād bet there E2 would be crashed and their LH would be .1 or something.
You can bet that, for sure. But this study doesnāt suggest it. Itās a guess based on other observed factors not measured in this group
Someone needs to aks Dr. McClain to run an LH panel on one of his guys taking 1mg EOD. Iād pay for it lol
1 Like
We know a couple of things from this study. While on Testosterone their LH is normal. In addition, their E2 is normal.
Yep Iād want to see that.
I think itās interesting that the two studies this one references do show that controlled e2 while on TRT lead to higher sexual desire outcomes. Iāve seen guys throw out the 20:1 ratio when trying to ādial inā e2, and this would suggest a higher ratio would be better. Itās interesting.