[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
TRU76 wrote:
Coach, Before you mentioned that you were trying a new BCAA protocol. How have your results been?
I grew up 6’’ so I’m now 6’4’’ and I can now teleport myself.[/quote]
i did the old protocol and i lost my libido and i forgot who i was for a month. and all my hair fell out aswell.
everyone thought i was tony soprano so i d say Thibs is better
CT,
I’ve been reading about cococnut oil as a miracle cure for so many diseases, and of course I’ve read the negatives. So now I’m confused (as always). What do you think of coconut oil for body composition purposes? Do I treat it as another fat, or does it really have those superior properties that people with metabolic disorders would benefit from? I’ve read that people supplement with it as much as 3-4 tablespoons of it a day (include other fats in their diets), and still loose fat.
Coach Thib
I have gone with an old Arnold workout plan. Does this look okay? I’ve tried the 5 day rotation and have completely failed at it. Perhaps because my schedule is intense and I just cant seem to effectively stick with the 5 day rotation. I found myself missing too much. Currently, I try to hit each muscle group twice a week but do a lighter less strenuous workout on the second time in the week.
Day 1: Pushing muscles (chest/shoulders/triceps)–Heavy / Intense (puke city)
Day 2: Pulling muscles (back/biceps/forearms/legs)–Heavy / Intense (puke city)
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Pushing muscles (chest/shoulders/triceps)–Moderate / light (high reps)
Day 5: Pulling muscles (back/biceps/forearms/ legs)–Moderate / light (high reps)
Day 6: Off
Day 7: Off
Thoughts?
PH
Hello Mr. Thibaudeau!
I’m not reading your articels and books for a long time, but I think I got you in at least one point:
The muscle needs from time to time new, different impulses!
After finishing with the accumulation block, the intensification block and the explosion block, what do you recommend next? And are there other books you would recommend that are similar to yours relative to the different types of strenght?
Thank you…
Edit: I am a real training-greenhorn (working out for about 8 months) and young, just 18 years old. So are your systems even fitting to my body and my experience?
I know, a lot of questions, I hope you don’t mind!
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
TRU76 wrote:
Coach, Before you mentioned that you were trying a new BCAA protocol. How have your results been?
I grew up 6’’ so I’m now 6’4’’ and I can now teleport myself.[/quote]
lmao that cracked me up for some reason
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
ANY training causes a gradual switch of the typr IIB/x fibers to type IIAB or IIA. And detraining actually causes the reverse to occur.
The theory is that IIB/x fibers would actually be ‘‘reserve/survival’’ fibers and that one of the adaptation to increased activity level is the conversion of these reserve fibers to IIA ones which are more easily used.[/quote]
really? I thought type IIb fibers were kept and used more with lower rep “powerlifting” type training.
In the same book (keto book by Lyle Mcdonald)a table given through several studies showed powerlifters have more and larger IIb fibers, while bodybuilders have higher capillary density, tolerance to lactic acid, sarcoplasmic volume, and mitochondrial density (last one has a “?” next to it).
[quote]clary wrote:
CT,
I’ve been reading about cococnut oil as a miracle cure for so many diseases, and of course I’ve read the negatives. So now I’m confused (as always). What do you think of coconut oil for body composition purposes? Do I treat it as another fat, or does it really have those superior properties that people with metabolic disorders would benefit from? I’ve read that people supplement with it as much as 3-4 tablespoons of it a day (include other fats in their diets), and still loose fat.[/quote]
What negatives are you referring to?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
really? I thought type IIb fibers were kept and used more with lower rep “powerlifting” type training.
In the same book (keto book by Lyle Mcdonald)a table given through several studies showed powerlifters have more and larger IIb fibers, while bodybuilders have higher capillary density, tolerance to lactic acid, sarcoplasmic volume, and mitochondrial density (last one has a “?” next to it). [/quote]
This comes from studies using the old fiber classification.
Read the following:
Introduction
What I am going to present in this article is unlike any training system that I am aware of – it is in complete opposition to what our intuition tells and to what we have been conditioned to think about speed and strength training. If you wish to become faster, I am going to suggest you stop working your legs. If you wish to increase your bench press, I am going to suggest you stop working the chest, shoulders, and triceps. I do not mean just for a week. I am talking about an extended length of time – on the order of 6-8 weeks. I believe the theory presented here could revolutionize the way athletes train, so please read on – temporarily forgetting old habits and dogmas – and let the science presented speak for itself.
Before I dive into theoretical speculation, we must look at the science of muscle fibers a bit.
Muscle Fibers
There are three primary muscle fiber types in humans – Type I, Type IIA, and Type IIB. Type I are referred to as “slow twitch oxidative”, Type IIA are “fast twitch oxidative” and Type IIB are “fast twitch glycolytic” (1). And as their names suggest, each type has very different functional characteristics. Type one fibers are characterized by low force/power/speed production and high endurance, Type IIB by high force/power/speed production and low endurance, while Type IIA fall in between (2, 3, 4). The advantages of a certain fiber composition on performance in various sports is both obvious and well established – for example, marathon runners have 75% slow twitch fibers, while sprinters and weightlifters have 75% fast twitch (5, 6).
These characteristics are a result, primarily, of the fiber’s Myosin Heavy Chain (MHC) composition, with MHC isoforms I, IIa and IIx corresponding with muscle fiber types I, IIA, and IIB, respectively (7) – A small % of hybrid fibers co-expressing two isoforms also exist (8). Myosin Light Chains have been found to exert an effect on some of these properties, but they are minor, and not as well characterized or understood (9), thus we will be dealing with only the MHC.
MHC
MHC IIx possess a shortening velocity 5-10 times that of MHC I and are also faster than MHC IIa (10, 11, 12). Power production, particularly at high velocities, is higher with IIx than either IIa or I as well (11, 13). Force (strength) production has generally been shown to be greater in MHC IIx than IIa (14, 15), though one study found the opposit (16). Both MHC II types have been consistently shown to be superior to MHC I in all three areas (10-16). So, clearly, it is favorable for speed and strength athletes to posses a high % of MHC II, particularly IIx.
The Theory
MHC composition, and thus athletic potential, is thought to be determined to a great extent by genetics. However, various forms of mechanical and electrical stimulus (or lack thereof) have been shown to alter their expression, and it is this potential for manipulation that is the centerpiece of the system I am proposing. I will start with the two most interesting studies:
In the first study, subjects were put on a 3 month resistance training program, which was then followed by 3 months of detraining. Analysis of of the MHC composition of the vastus lateralis was done before training, after training, and following the detraining period (17).
Training resulted in a decrease in MHC IIx from 10% to 4% and an increase in MHC I from 49% to 51% – the opposite of what we want as a speed/strength athlete. This fast to slow conversion has been well characterized in the literature – both with bodybuilding type routines such as this, but also with routines typical of those used by power athletes. We will go into considerably more detail on this in a bit.
What is not as well characterized (and what is exciting) is what happened following the detraining period. At the end of the three months, MHC IIx had risen from 4% to 19%, while MHC I had dropped from 51% to 45%. Remember, MHC IIx started out at only 10% before training. This means a significant overshoot in MHC IIx occurred with detraining. Obviously, this is a speed/strength athletes dream.
In the second study (18), fifteen women were divided into two groups – the first group (T) had undergone a 20 week resistance training program followed by 32 weeks of detraining prior to the study. The second group (U) was totally untrained. Both groups were subsequently put on a 6 week training program. Fiber type % measurements for T were taken before and after the 20 weeks of training, after the the 32 weeks of detraining, and again after the 6 week training period. For U, measurements were taken before and after the 6 week training program.
The initial 20 week program for T caused a reduction in IIB from 16% to 1%. The detraining period caused an increase from 1% to 24% – another instance of overshoot. And considering the length of the detraining period, it is possible that a greater overshoot occurred but that levels were returning to baseline by week 32 (17).
However, this is not the most interesting part, as we will see. Following the subsequent 6 week program, the IIB % of U dropped from 24.9% to 6.7%, but T only dropped from 24.2 to 12.9%. There reduction was far less than that of the untrained group. The differences in type I are just as dramatic. T showed no increase in type I while U increased from 37.5% to 50.5%. In addition to the slow to fast overshoots we have seen, this suggests that the on/off cycling might be causing a resistance to fast to slow transformations. Hopefully, at this point, you have put two and two together and are wondering what might happen if we put together multiple on/off cycles.
I should note that these studies did use untrained subjects and the training protocol was not typical of that used by power athletes, thus if this were the only these studies, they could perhaps be written off. However, a number of other studies argue for the possibility of this being much more than an isolated occurrence, as we will see.
We will first take a look at several studies showing fast to slow conversions which will help us to determine possible mechanisms, not only to allow us to develop training strategies to minimize them, but also to give us some insight as to how the slow to fast changes might be made to occur, so as to facilitate and optimize them.
Fast to Slow
Studies in both man and animal have consistently shown a fast to slow (FTS) MHC response to resistance training, with not only endurance and bodybuilding type routines, but even with with routines typical of speed/strength athletes. We will not concern ourselves with endurance studies, except to say that it causes a rapid slowing of the phenotype (IIx to IIa and IIa to I) without concomitant increases in strength, thus it should be entirely avoided by those wishing to maximize speed, strength, and power (5, 19, 20).
I will not do an exhaustive presentation of the fast to slow literature, as many of the studies use identical design with identical results – I will focus instead on presenting the different protocols that have produced fast to slow adaptations.
Hortabagyi et al showed a 12% reduction in MHC IIx and 13% increase in MHC I after 12 weeks using high volume maximal effort isokinetic contractions, with eccentric only, concentric only, as well as with mixed training (21).
In another study, using a twice a week heavy (6-8RM), light (10-12RM) split, MHC IIx was reduced from 18% to 7.1% and 18.9% to 6.1% in just 7 weeks in both men and women (22a). Interestingly, between the 7th and 9th week, it leveled off in both groups and the % actually increased slightly in the women. A similar reversal of the STF occurred from week 7 to 9 in another study, using the same training protocol, but which looked at fiber type % (22b).
Twelve weeks of a typical bodybuilding routine caused a 25% MHC IIx reduction along with a slight MHC I increase (23).
It is probably not a big surprise to many that the above training methods caused FTS. However, a study using sprinters (24), employing their normal sprint preparation programs might be. Subjects were tested, following a three week training break, for MHC content, and sprinting speed. This was followed by a three month training period. Type IIx was found to have decreased by about 50%. And this is with a pre-contest sprint preparation protocol.
But, before you decide to just quit training altogether, it should be noted that sprint times still improved slightly (we mustn’t forget about the neural and cross sectional area components of speed/strength/power), and type I decreased by 25%. Anderson et. al. and Esbjornsson et. al. have found a similar bi-directional shift (IIX to IIa and I to IIa) with sprint training (24, 25).
Another study, employing multiple 3 second cycle sprints did not observe this, but rather showed the decrease in MHC IIx and increase in MHC I observed in all of the other studies (26).
Slow to Fast
Slow to Fast transitions in the literature are also abundant, however not that many human studies deal with any sort of resistance training setting, thus we will have to dip a bit into other areas such as immobilization, reduced electrical activity, and reduced gravity, as well as animal studies.
Detraining
Obviously, the studies most applicable to our purposes are those using detraining. We have previously mentioned 2 studies showing STF with extended detraining. Several detraining studies of shorter duration (2-4 weeks) have shown no STF transformation (27, 28). However, an analysis of MHC at the protein level have shown increases in MHC mRNA – which is indicative of the early stages of IIa to IIb and I to IIa conversions – in short term studies (21, 29). This makes sense given an MHC turnover time of 3-4 weeks (30). Thus, there is clearly evidence supporting STF given a detraining period of adequate length.
Immobilization
There is a lack of data on the effect of immobilization in humans, however, animal studies show STF transformations in as little as 2-7 days (31, 32).
Reduced Loading
Reduced loading situations such as space flight and its ground based counterpart, hindlimb unloading, result in rapid STF transitions. As little as 4 days of spaceflight in rats and 11 days in humans caused significant increases in MHC IIx and decreases in MHC I (33, 34). In another study, 17 days resulted in a doubling of the proportion of fast twitch fibers in the human soleus (35). While hindlimb unloading consistently shows STF is rats, it has been more mixed in humans (36).
Neural Inactivity
Reduced neural activity, such as that which occurs in spinal cord injury or transection, rapidly and reliably show STF transformation in both slow-twitch and fast twitch muscles, beginning as early as five days and showing profound changes within 3 months (37, 38, 39, 40).
Obviously, some of the above situations are not exactly 100% analogous to the type of detraining that is practical to a power athlete. However, what they do show, is that given the proper stimulus (or lack thereof), MHC content displays a great deal of plasticity, and in a short enough time to be practical for implementation into a power athlete’s off-season program.
Mechanisms
Fast to Slow
The exact mechanisms behind the transformations observed is not conclusively known at this time. The most popular theory is that MHC IIx gene represents a default gene, which is switched under conditions of increased contractile activity (41, 42, 24). However, several studies have shown increased MHC IIx expression with certain types of training programs, most notably short duration sprinting (43), as well as with certain metabolic and hormonal conditions, including hyperthyroidism, hyperinsulinemia, leptin administration, and beta 2 adrenergic stimulation (44, 45, 46, 47). Thus, I think this view is flawed.
A more likely explanation is that the phenotype is adapted to its to meet the demands of its environment. Let’s look at this from an evolutionary point of view – in other words, what are the advantages of FTS vs. STF for the survival of the organism.
With resistance training, particularly employing strength training protocols, one would at first view the FTS as paradoxical in the face of mechanical overload. After all, that aspect, all else being equal, represents a weakening of the phenotype. However, on closer inspection, we find that it offers certain advantages, while still allowing the organism to adapt to the stimuli presented.
First, a FTS conversion would make the organism metabolically more efficient (48, 49), which is an obvious advantage in the times of scarcity in which we evolved. And, given that under non-training conditions, motor units associated with MHC IIx isoforms are only active 30-180 seconds per day, most current training programs are going to represent a significant increase in activity (50).
Second, the training stimulus with current protocols does not present a true maximal overload, particularly in regards to the eccentric component. This, along with the fact that some studies show MHC IIa fibers to produce equal or superior force at low velocities compared with MHC IIx (16), mean that a concentric/eccentric rep under typical strength training conditions (loads only as high as the concentric 1 RM and low velocities) could be adequately handled by a phenotype with a preferential IIa expression.
This makes it tempting to suggest loads equal to or greater than the ECCENTRIC 1 RM, however, speed of cross-bridging is less fiber type dependent (50b), thus it might overactivate and thus hypertrophy type I and IIa fibers. Therefore, we will leave this as an area for exploration at this point. The other method would be to employ only a concentric contraction at very high velocities (or perhaps at loads equal to the 1 RM).
Slow to Fast
The specific mechanisms responsible for STF at the micro level are not fully known. A couple of theories exist – one involving the myogenic regulatory factor pathway and the other calcineurin:NF-AT pathway (36). However, these are very much speculative at present and are well beyond the scope of this today’s article, thus we will not go into further detail, today.
At the macro level, we can once again turn to the advantage STF might produce for the organism. With the hormonal conditions mentioned above, it is fairly obvious. Beta 2 receptors are activated by epinephrine and norepinephrine, the so called “fight or flight” hormones. Clearly, a STF transformation of the phenotype would be advantageous for an organism that has to run away from a predator (or chase down its prey). This is likely what accounts for STF transformations that have occurred with short duration sprint training as well (51, 52).
As for hyperthyroidism, hyperinsulinemia, and leptin administration, what these all have in common is they are characteristic of the organism being in the “fed” state. Thus, the need for metabolic efficiency is done away with for the time being, leaving the organism free to assume a phenotype most conducive to the afore mentioned fight or flight situations.
With reduced mechanical loading and neural activity, the mechanism is likely the opposite of that which produces the FTS during training. In the face of reduced activity, thus reduced energy expenditure and need for muscular endurance, the afore mentioned metabolic efficiency would no longer be necessary for survival, thus the organism is free to once again assume the faster phenotype, which is clearly advantageous, all else being equal.
With detraining, it is likely that, from the body’s vantage point, the abrupt withdrawal of stimulus following increased muscle activity with training is analogous to the near complete cessation of activity with immobilization/neural inactivation following normal activity (17). In other words, it “tricks” the body into thinking it can safely assume the metabolic inefficiencies that accompany the faster phenotype.
Muscle and Strength Losses
At this point, perhaps you are convinced of the possibility of slow to fast transformations but are concerned about the negative effects of the detraining period on muscle mass and strength. After all, spinal cord transection can accomplish STF, but it is not going to make anyone a great athlete. Fortunately, this is not a great concern. As I will show, both parameters rapidly return to normal levels (and above) when training is resumed.
The previously mentioned study by Staron et. al. (18) showed complete strength and power recovery after just 6 weeks of retraining following 20 weeks of detraining. Hortabagyi (21) and MacDougall (53) showed gains to beyond starting levels despite complete immobilization for extended periods. These are not surprising in light of data showing that majority of neural adaptation induced strength gains take place in the first 3-5 weeks of training (54). In addition, a couple studies have found that fiber areas of subjects trained for only a couple of months were equal to those of subjects trained for several years (54, 55). This has ramification that go far beyond what is presented today, but that is the subject of another article.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
First choice would be aspartate second choice chelate.[/quote]
I’d been trying to find information on this. Too bad I hadn’t already read this. Thanks.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
NoisePollution wrote:
CT,
As far as the adrenals are concerned, do you see using 3 cups of green tea daily and year-round as something that would cause much stress on them?
I do not recommend using anything year round except a good multi and fish oil. All the other supplements should be cycled more or less frequently. If not for health reasons, for efficacy ones.[/quote]
Coach,
Given the fact you’d only use a fish oil and good multi vitamin year-round, is there an example of an appropriate way to “use” green tea for an individual who decides to add some to his diet. I’m perfectly happy just drinking water but figured the health benefits of green tea are too good to pass up and that I should start drinking it.
In shorter periods of use would adrenal stress increase much from green tea usage or would it barely(if at all) be a blip on the radar?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
However, this is not the most interesting part, as we will see. Following the subsequent 6 week program, the IIB % of U dropped from 24.9% to 6.7%, but T only dropped from 24.2 to 12.9%. There reduction was far less than that of the untrained group.
[/quote]
how did the untrained group (U) start at 24.9% when T started at 16% before training?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Reduced Loading
Reduced loading situations such as space flight and its ground based counterpart, hindlimb unloading, result in rapid STF transitions. As little as 4 days of spaceflight in rats and 11 days in humans caused significant increases in MHC IIx and decreases in MHC I (33, 34). In another study, 17 days resulted in a doubling of the proportion of fast twitch fibers in the human soleus (35). While hindlimb unloading consistently shows STF is rats, it has been more mixed in humans (36).[/quote]
interesting but clearly they would be weaker after awhile in spaceflight
-that was very interesting, not what i would have thought. I mean it is important to realize but at the same time i don’t see any one suggesting actually taking 3 months off to gain more IIb fibers.
what is your opinion on that method?
-more importantly what are the effects on hypertrophy? Strength is great but i am much more concerned with gaining muscle, is the fiber make up just something to not worry about in that case?
CT,
I’ve been looking to clarify some things about caffeine use, workouts, and overall effect of caffeine and was hoping you might be able to give your own take on a few things.
In your opinion, should caffeine be used ONLY pre-workout and specifically in two instances: before the most intense of workouts and prior to workouts during fat loss phases as you get close to your goal and progress begins to slow?
Or can it be used before any workouts, provided it is not taken for longer than 8-12 weeks straight? I’ve also read some who say it would impair insulin sensitivity(but usually in those who are not accustomed to using it) while others have stated that it either has no effect or actually improves insulin sensitivity in those using it chronically. So I was curious as to your particular feelings vis a vis the insulin issue.
Coach,
You previously mentioned that you prefer ALCAR propionate to the CLT form of carnitine. I was wondering if you would briefly explain why you feel its a better choice.
[quote]NoisePollution wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
NoisePollution wrote:
CT,
As far as the adrenals are concerned, do you see using 3 cups of green tea daily and year-round as something that would cause much stress on them?
I do not recommend using anything year round except a good multi and fish oil. All the other supplements should be cycled more or less frequently. If not for health reasons, for efficacy ones.
Coach,
Given the fact you’d only use a fish oil and good multi vitamin year-round, is there an example of an appropriate way to “use” green tea for an individual who decides to add some to his diet. I’m perfectly happy just drinking water but figured the health benefits of green tea are too good to pass up and that I should start drinking it.
In shorter periods of use would adrenal stress increase much from green tea usage or would it barely(if at all) be a blip on the radar?[/quote]
I never said that green tea caused adrenal stress! I only said that I like to cycle all my supplements except fish oil and a multi.
Some studies have actually shown that tea (green and black) actually lower cortisol levels.
Coach,
I read in your old locker/thread that you wouldn’t prefer someone to jump-rope while on a diet. But what about as conditioning work on the side for somebody putting on weight? Would it even be applicable for powerlifting?
Thib,
If training two days a week and focusing on ganing strength, does leg curls have any place in a routine. As i understand it, the routine should consist of the most bang for buck exercises and although leg curls proabably wouldnt fall under that category, i would have thought it was important to make sure the knee flexion function of the hamstrings was not missed out?
Thanks
CT,
Are you currently writing any new books or any new DVD’s? I believe I recall you saying awhile back that you were writing a book that was based on your training log and the specifics within, or something similiar. Pardon if I’m wrong.
CT:
I’m looking forward adding real mass. For complex carbs I was thinking eating legumes throughout the day, and putting more insulemic complex carbs after my postworkout shake. Do you think this is a good idea? or should I stay always with the less insulemic complex carbs?
Another point that could be considered is that I’ve found my body responds best on mass phases eating 300-400grs of carbs, less won’t get so much gains, and more lead to excessive fat gain.
I will use the “Build & burn” approach, too.
Coach:
Regarding at breakfast meal the 20-30 first grams are destinated to Inmune System and NT production. Sience BCAA by-passes digestion, after fasted night:
Is it fine a mixture of solid food with nuts and BCAA ? at ratio 1:1 .I think that, if it ´s better with solid food suports IS and NT and drive the BCAA to muscles.
(Althought fats from nuts avoids insuline spike and we folow Keto diet)
Thanks CT
Thanks
[quote]michell wrote:
Coach:
Regarding at breakfast meal the 20-30 first grams are destinated to Inmune System and NT production. Sience BCAA by-passes digestion, after fasted night:
Is it fine a mixture of solid food with nuts and BCAA ? at ratio 1:1 .I think that, if it ´s better with solid food suports IS and NT and drive the BCAA to muscles.
(Althought fats from nuts avoids insuline spike and we folow Keto diet)
Thanks CT
Thanks[/quote]
I prefer to keep BCAA for during the workout at high doses (20-40g).
The method I use now is to add 4-5g (no more) of LEUCINE (not the other 2 BCAAs) to each solid meal. This strategy makes every meal more anabolic.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I prefer to keep BCAA for during the workout at high doses (20-40g).
The method I use now is to add 4-5g (no more) of LEUCINE (not the other 2 BCAAs) to each solid meal. This strategy makes every meal more anabolic.
[/quote]
Obiusly BCAA are must “during”. Although Leucine needs the other aa for function, I supose that it´ll find support on aa profile of food.
But if you mix fats with protein, and that small addition, there will not be spike insuline. Therefore, Do start it protein synthesis more fast?
Thanks