Coach Thibaudeau,
Once a person is in ketosis/fat adapted, is it important to alter dietary fat intake on different days in order to maximize the use of bodyfat for fuel without getting to the point where the body will begin to waste muscle or use a lot of ingested amino acids for fuel?
And in general, is there a limited number of times when and goals for which you’d actually recommend that a person make use of a ketogenic diet instead of another approach?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
from before i thought you were recommending the carb cycling every 5th day for minimal fat gain, thanks for clearing it up.
There we go AGAIN with misinterpretation, to be honest I’m getting REALLY pissed.
Having a carb meal every 5th day is NOT carb cycling. It is a regular low-carb diet with an infrequent loading.
Carb cycling refers to an alternance of days containing high, moderate and low amount of carbs (relative to the individual).
For example…
Monday: moderate carbs
Tuesday: low carbs
Wednesday: high(er) carbs
Thursday: low carbs
Friday: moderate carbs
Saturday: high(er) carbs
Sunday: low carbs
Now, before you misinterpret me for the 1000th time, this is just an example, NOT a recommendation. Ideally you should fit the high(er) carb days with the hardest workouts, moderate days with other workouts and low carb days with the non-workout days.
i am sorry i misinterpreted you, but from what we were talking about it seemed like that is what you meant. i was comparing the TCD vs. the low carb with a carb load every 5th day or so, then when you made the comparisons i thought you were referring to carb cycling as the carb load one (that confused me a bit but i didnt know where you were putting it).
i’ll just ask this time so i dont misinterpret anything. would the low carb with infrequent loading of 1/2-1 day of carbs (that you thought would be best for people average bodyfat while bulking) be “E = pure low carbs dieting”?
Thanks
[/quote]
I think that I will stop answering your questions from now on… I’m just not getting through and to be honest it is an enormous waste of my time, patience and energy.
In the list I gave I NEVER said that low-carbs + moderate carb-up every 5th is superior to anything for gaining size. THIS IS NOT THE CARBS CYCLING APPROACH GIVEN IN THE LIST. The low-carbs diet + moderate carb up is the IS OPTION E in the list.
A low carbs diet with a moderate carb-up every 5th day will never be optimal for muscle growth. However, individuals with more than 15% body fat have no choice IMHO (many disagree and I’m fine with it).
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Coach, you mentioned in the thread about the Colorado experiment that you’ve found diet 180s to work well like with training programs.
I was just wondering what kind of ‘opposites’ could you implement with diet? I mean I could see going high carb to low carb…but what about the other way around? Could you give an idea to what kind of opposites you would use for diet?
Regarding diet, it’s not so much opposites as it is a drastic change. And I really don’t want to expand on the subject because people will, once again, misinterpret it. Drastic diet changes are not like drastic program changes; they should be implemented sporadically only when progress has stalled for a long time. It IS a complex matter that is outside the scope of a Q&A forum.
It is NOT so simple as to go from low carbs to high carbs… far from it.[/quote]
Thanks Coach. Would love to see an article on that type of stuff one day. ;}
Good stuff in the first 2 installments of your current series btw, looking forward to the rest.
Thib,
Do you think glucomannan is a potentially effective addition during fat loss phases when nutrient intake gets to be somewhat restrictive?
And do you think carnitine-L-tartrate shows promise for increasing muscle strength, growth, and recovery as well as enhancing the effects of post-workout meals due to its ability to increase androgen receptor content of tissues? How about its potential for improving some of the neural factors associated with strength gains as well as enhancing neural recovery? Just curious if you have any thoughts on this supplement.
[quote]Corkonian wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1754646
Asians 
There about the only race fully adapted to grains, they have been in their diet longer.
But give them Milk and watch out ![/quote]
Fully adapted? I’m not that sure. When you take a look at big cities in China, Taiwan…major fatasses are everywhere! A bunch of skinny fat and terrestrial whales are roaming the streets. Diabetes is now rampant…they get all westerners degenerative diseases at an amazing pace…So if those guys where that much grain adapted how the fuck they are becoming so fat and crippled by those “new” diseases?
I don’t know where does the belief that Asians people traditionally swallow truck load of grains and carbs everyday come from. Actually Asians traditionally didn’t eat that much grains and carbs. Besides 2 to 6 bowls of rice (btw a hypoallergenic grain) they almost don’t have other carbs source and believe me it is not that much! In rural Asia people are EXTREMELY active and rice has a comparatively pretty low caloric density (roughly 130 cal/100g, white bread 275 to 360 cal/100g, spaghetti 158 cal/100g)
Westerners do eat huge amount of grains and carbs! Truck loads of bread, cereals, pasta and sweets. Boy take a look at your typical French or Italian guy! They gulp pasta and bread down like nothing! French alone used to eat more than 1 kilo of bread everyday! When Asians switch from their traditional diet to a westernize one (lots of wheat based products) they do become fat or when they only switch from a rural lifestyle to a urban one they become fat as much as easily than westerners…
I believe Asians better carbs and grains tolerance doesn’t mean they are fully adapted. To me the numbers from epimediological studies just don’t back that theory. Maybe your typical Asian handles grains better than your average northern european white guys but not that much.
i wonder how high my heart rate gets watching Thibs blow a gasket every other post lol poor guy
[quote]DeadlySting81 wrote:
Thib,
Do you think glucomannan is a potentially effective addition during fat loss phases when nutrient intake gets to be somewhat restrictive? [/quote]
No. It’s kinda like the old product ‘chitosan’: looks good on paper, but in real life it just doesn’t do much.
[quote]DeadlySting81 wrote:
And do you think carnitine-L-tartrate shows promise for increasing muscle strength, growth, and recovery as well as enhancing the effects of post-workout meals due to its ability to increase androgen receptor content of tissues? How about its potential for improving some of the neural factors associated with strength gains as well as enhancing neural recovery? Just curious if you have any thoughts on this supplement.
[/quote]
I prefer acetyl-l-carnitine PROPIONATE for that purpose.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
DeadlySting81 wrote:
And do you think carnitine-L-tartrate shows promise for increasing muscle strength, growth, and recovery as well as enhancing the effects of post-workout meals due to its ability to increase androgen receptor content of tissues? How about its potential for improving some of the neural factors associated with strength gains as well as enhancing neural recovery? Just curious if you have any thoughts on this supplement.
I prefer acetyl-l-carnitine PROPIONATE for that purpose.
[/quote]
A major WORD on that. PLCAR kicks the shit out of pretty much all other carnitine forms…IME.
Thib,
If you included a ketogenic diet to lose fat as an option ‘G’ in your “diet type relative to training goal” analysis(since I’m assuming it would not typically be recommended for maintaining or gaining muscle mass), where would it fit and how would it compare to the others, where applicable?
[quote]AtomicPunks wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
A = carbs cycling to gain mass
B = carbs cycling to lose fat
C = targeted carbs dieting to gain mass
D = targeted carbs dieting to lose fat
E = pure low carbs dieting
F = pure higher carbs dieting
= is superior to…
For an average individual (12-15% body fat) trying to gain mass WHILE MINIMIZING FAT GAIN)…
A > F
C > A
For an average individual trying to gain mass WHILE ACCEPTING AN AVERAGE FAT GAIN to maximize growth…
C > F
A > C
For an average individual trying to lose fat…
B > F
D > B
E > D
For a LEAN individual (less than 10% body fat) trying to gain mass while minimizing fat gain…
A = C
A > F
C > F
For a lean individual trying to gain mass while accepting some fat gain to maximize growth…
A > C
C > F
For a lean individual trying to get ripped…
B > E
D > B
For a skinny guy (who has trouble gaining mass) trying to grow…
A > C
C > E
F > A (in most cases)
A guy above 15% should stick to low carbs or targeted carbs.
Thib,
If you included a ketogenic diet to lose fat as an option ‘G’ in your “diet type relative to training goal” analysis(since I’m assuming it would not typically be recommended for maintaining or gaining muscle mass), where would it fit and how would it compare to the others, where applicable?
[/quote]
It’s option E
Hi CT,
I am recovering from a 2-week illness (nothing serious) that prevented me from eating solid food: one of the symptoms was inflammation of the mouth. All I could do is drink meal replacement drinks and so on.
I haven’t been to the gym once during this period, and I’ve lost almost 10 pounds in weight (likely mostly water and glycogen, it’s not like the illness was a degenerative disease that caused a huge loss of muscle mass).
Assuming I am a naturally lean individual on a mass gain stage, how would you suggest getting back into a “proper” diet – slowly build up my calories again, or just switching straight back to eating loads?
Thanks,
Mike
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
I think that I will stop answering your questions from now on… I’m just not getting through and to be honest it is an enormous waste of my time, patience and energy.
In the list I gave I NEVER said that low-carbs + moderate carb-up every 5th is superior to anything for gaining size. THIS IS NOT THE CARBS CYCLING APPROACH GIVEN IN THE LIST. The low-carbs diet + moderate carb up is the IS OPTION E in the list.
[/quote]
that is what i was trying to figure out since i couldnt tell “pure low carbs” meant having the moderate carb up. Thank you.
Coach,
I currently train my back using an antagonistic chest/back split. My problem is that my back feels very understimulated after this workout, while my chest is thoroughly worked. As it seems like adding another chest/back day would be overtraining, would another back workout during the week be acceptable? I was thinking that I could train chest/back thickness one day, and maybe add back width exercises to my shoulder workout. Thanks for your time.
Coach,
I know that pullups / chin ups are superior to pulldowns but I have failed to make any progress on either movement ( increase # of reps ) Any suggestions on how I can stimulate my back with similar movments or technigues? I am looking for more hypotrophy gains then strength. Thanks
CT, regarding ketogenic diet, if someone is insuline resistant is one of best approach. I know that insuline is necessary and the first purpose is glycogen refill, as your guidelines of you PWO show it. But, can it affect, in any degree, the sutbborn fat zones (lower back, for expemple)?
[quote]mabbott29 wrote:
Coach,
I currently train my back using an antagonistic chest/back split. My problem is that my back feels very understimulated after this workout, while my chest is thoroughly worked. As it seems like adding another chest/back day would be overtraining, would another back workout during the week be acceptable?
I was thinking that I could train chest/back thickness one day, and maybe add back width exercises to my shoulder workout. Thanks for your time.[/quote]
Try to pre-fatigue (isolation set, then compound) ur back if ur not feeling it.
Its something has been mentioned a lot on here and in his articles.
[quote]partymonster975 wrote:
mabbott29 wrote:
Coach,
I currently train my back using an antagonistic chest/back split. My problem is that my back feels very understimulated after this workout, while my chest is thoroughly worked. As it seems like adding another chest/back day would be overtraining, would another back workout during the week be acceptable?
huhI was thinking that I could train chest/back thickness one day, and maybe add back width exercises to my shoulder workout. Thanks for your time.
Try to pre-fatigue (isolation set, then compound) ur back if ur not feeling it.
Its something has been mentioned a lot on here and in his articles.[/quote]
Indeed.
Here are two articles that should be of much help…
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1403235
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/thibs_quick_tricks&cr=
(read quick tip 3)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/thibs_quick_tricks&cr=
(read quick tip 3)[/quote]
everytime i read that article i forget everything i just read after seeing jamie eason’s picture
Coach (hell yeah),
I read your book “Theory and Application of Modern Strength and Power Methods” and have a few questions:
How can I replace “Squat jumps”, “depth jumps”, “depth push ups” and “2 Boards press” (Depth jumps and depth push ups can be performed at home ~30mins after leaving the gym, but unfortunately not in the gym)? And what is the meaning of “Squat max intensity iso against pins (3 positions)”?
Another thing is, that I can’t use any weight releasers, jumpstretch bands or kettlebells…
English is not my first language so I hope I didn’t red the alternatives and the explanation over.
Thank you for your help!
Coach,
I am currently in my 4th year of college as an exercise and health science major and plan to start studying for my CSCS within the next year in hopes of becoming a Strength and Conditioning coach not unlike yourself. I am always trying to find good books on training and nutrition. I am making a list of books to eventually get including a few of yours, Poliquin’s, Cressey’s, and Waterbury’s. Can you recommend some books that will help me become more versed in my training?