Hi Christian
I have a question concerning Protein and kidney function, my Dr. says that muscle mass has an effect on kidneys, raising creatinine levels in lifters which in turn can result in renal Kidney failure, what have you heard on this subject.
[quote]springem wrote:
Hi Christian
I have a question concerning Protein and kidney function, my Dr. says that muscle mass has an effect on kidneys, raising creatinine levels in lifters which in turn can result in renal Kidney failure, what have you heard on this subject. [/quote]
Elevated creatinine is a symptom not a cause. Intense muscular effort causes elevated creatinine, it isn’t due to kidney problems and will not cause them.
Regarding protein, here is something from DOCTOR John Berardi…
ISSUE #1 ? Many physicians believe that high protein diets cause kidney dysfunction
RESPONSE #1 ? This is FALSE according to everything science now knows to be true. This presumption states that if you take a healthy person and put them on a high protein diet, the protein will somehow negatively influence the kidney, damaging it and causing renal disease. To this end, there is absolutely no data in healthy adults suggesting that a high protein intake causes the onset of renal (kidney) dysfunction. There aren?t even any correlational studies showing this effect in healthy people.
Any studies that show a correlation between renal (kidney) dysfunction and protein intake are in those with some type of diagnosed, pre-existing renal (kidney) disease like diabetic nephropathy, glomerular lesions, etc. Even research into protein restriction for renal patients can be controversial. (Shils, Modern Nutr in Health & Dis, 1999).
Besides, you?ll likely recognize a serious pre-existing kidney condition; the signs and symptoms will clue you in long before you happen upon it with a routine blood test (especially if there’s a noted family history of diabetes mellitus and hypertension).
Since an exhaustive search of the published literature will likely not yield a single study showing that the amount of protein in the diet causes, or is correlated with, the onset of renal dysfunction in otherwise healthy individuals, the fact that this notion prevails is puzzling to say the least!
But even if a doctor were to find an obscure reference that might suggest a relationship between a high-protein diet and kidney disease, there are numerous studies showing otherwise. Here are a few of them:
a) Ann Intern Med 2003 Mar 18;138(6):460-7
The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency.
Knight EL, Stampfer MJ, Hankinson SE, Spiegelman D, Curhan GC.
b) Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38
Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?
Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.
c) Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7
Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.
Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.
d) Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.
e) Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. “Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons.”
If you?re interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com.
ISSUE #2 ? Many physicians believe that because high protein diets can worsen the condition of those who already suffer from kidney dysfunction, it only stands to reason that this should be true in healthy people.
RESPONSE #2 ? This is also FALSE! Much of the speculation about kidney dysfunction associated with high protein diets comes from early nutritional studies in renal patients (patients who already have kidney disease).
In these individuals, when high protein diets are given as part of total parenteral nutrition?or tube feedings?these diets exacerbated their renal (kidney) problems. From these data, some physicians and nutritionists began to speculate (sometimes erroneously) that increased protein in the diet could be harmful to even those with healthy kidneys.
While there are hundreds of studies showing that high protein diets are bad for kidney patients, I believe that a “leap” from clinical patients to healthy patients isn’t warranted. It?s this leap that has been the cause of the persistent but slowly dying (sorry for the word selection) idea that high protein diets could harm the kidneys.
Again, there’s no evidence whatsoever that high protein diets will harm the kidneys of a healthy weightlifter. This is about as ridiculous as someone suggesting that because eating certain types of fiber can worsen the GI symptoms of someone with irritable bowel syndrome, fiber must cause irritable bowl syndrome in otherwise healthy people.
ISSUE #3 ? Kidneys DO change to adapt to high protein diets.
RESPONSE #3 ? Some studies in healthy individuals do show an alteration of kidney function with very high protein diets. However, it’s important to note that these changes are not reported as negative or “adverse.” Instead, they seem to be structural adaptations to increased filtration (something the kidneys are doing all the time anyway).
If the kidney didn?t respond this way, most clinicians would think something was wrong. Just like in weight training, tissues adapt to the demands put on them. Therefore, just because the kidneys have to “work” harder, doesn?t mean that this is a negative thing. After all, what happens when muscles work harder? Well, they adapt to the demands and become bigger, stronger, or more efficient. Therefore, the adaptation that kidneys undergo is reasonable and appropriate. But don?t take my word for it, check out this study (again at www.pubmed.com):
Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.
ISSUE #4 ? What about the increased creatinine and BUN indicated by the blood test?
RESPONSE #4 ? For starters, how about a quick discussion of the two markers?
Creatinine is commonly known as a waste product of muscle or protein metabolism. To this end, its level is a reflection of the body’s muscle mass or the amount of protein in the diet. Low levels are sometimes seen in kidney damage, protein starvation, liver disease, or pregnancy. Elevated levels are sometimes seen in kidney disease due to the fact that a damaged kidney will not remove creatinine from the body as it should. Also, elevated levels are seen with the use of some drugs that could impair kidney filtration. Finally, elevated levels could also be seen with muscle degeneration, a high protein diet, or creatine supplementation.
With respect to creatinine measurements, it?s important to note that the amount of creatinine in the blood is regulated by the amount being produced (from protein degradation?muscle or dietary) vs. the amount that?s being removed (by the kidney). Therefore, although creatinine in the blood COULD be a marker of a damaged kidney?s inability to filter creatinine out of the body at a normal rate, it COULD ALSO be a marker of rapid protein degradation (via muscle damage from weight training or from a high protein intake).
Think of the blood as a sink. If you turn on the faucet at a low rate, the amount of water going into the sink and the amount leaving the sink should balance each other out, leading to a predictable amount of water in the sink at any moment. However, if you partially plug the drain, you?ll get more water accumulating in the sink at the same faucet flow rate. This is similar to kidney dysfunction (thinking of the water as creatinine). However, alternatively, if the drain remains unplugged but you crank up the faucet flow rate, you?ll get more water in the sink due to the higher flow. This is similar to a high protein diet.
Since weightlifters are continually breaking down muscle protein (this is a good thing), even in the absence of a high protein diet, blood creatinine concentrations tend to be elevated. Furthermore, add in a higher protein diet and creatinine concentrations in the blood will rise. Finally, since creatinine is also a breakdown product of creatine, if a weightlifter is taking creatine supplements (which most do), blood creatinine concentrations will also be high. What all of this means is that the faucet is turned up in weightlifters, not that the drain is plugged.
To address the other relevant measure, the nitrogen component of urea, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), is the end product of protein metabolism and its concentration is also influenced by the rate of excretion (as is creatinine). Excessive protein intake, kidney damage, certain drugs, low fluid intake, intestinal bleeding, exercise, or heart failure can cause increases in BUN. Decreased levels may be due to a poor diet, malabsorption, liver damage, or low nitrogen intake. Excess BUN is even more closely correlated with protein intake than is creatinine. The same argument above applies here.
So, as you can see, since both creatinine and BUN are correlated with both high protein metabolism AND kidney function, I?m not suggesting that it?s unreasonable that doctors are worried about the kidneys of your son or daughter. But it?s important for you and your doctor to realize that the increases in BUN and creatinine seen in healthy weightlifters who eat higher protein diets aren?t necessarily a function of kidney health but are much more closely correlated with their diet and training.
ISSUE #5 ? Since BUN and creatinines are non-specific measures, what should we have tested, just to be on the safe side?
RESPONSE #5 ? According to physician and sports nutrition expert Dr. Eric Serrano, two additional measures are important to tease out the differences between the effects of training and nutrition and the effects of kidney dysfunction. The first is the BUN to creatinine ratio. Dr. Serrano suggests that values up to the low 30?s are okay but anything higher might be indicative of problems. The second is a urinary protein test. This test is a better measure of kidney function than most others.
Considering that most comprehensive kidney function tests include the following measures (A/G Ratio, Albumin, BUN, Calcium, Cholesterol, Creatinine, Globulin, LDH, Phosphorous, Protein - Total, Uric Acid) as well as urinary analysis, it seems irresponsible to make suggestions about protein intake after a simple blood chemistry analysis measuring BUN and creatinine.
ISSUE #6 ? What about the increased levels of Creatine Kinase (CK)?
RESPONSE #6 ? While this misdiagnosis isn?t as common as the aforementioned ones, many doctors erroneously speculate that elevations in a muscle damage marker, CK, is indicative of a recent myocardial infarction (heart attack)! How could this be?
Creatine Kinase is a cytosolic enzyme (it floats around in the fluid portion of cells) involved in muscle metabolism. Since creatine kinase is present in all muscle tissues (including skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle), the excessive appearance of creatine kinase in the blood is indicative of some type of muscle damage (again, either skeletal or cardiac). Countless studies have shown large rises in blood concentrations of creatine kinase with heart muscle damage (via heart attack) and even large rises in creatine kinase with normal, training-induced muscle damage (this damage is critical to the growth and adaptation process).
Interestingly, a high protein diet has been repeatedly demonstrated to increase resting creatine kinase and post-exercise creatine kinase concentrations without any additional damage (in a number of different species, including humans).
Furthermore, while the standard clinical creatine kinase assay doesn?t distinguish between skeletal muscle and cardiac muscle creatine kinase isoforms, there are muscle specific tests that can be done. Therefore, if a doc is worried about elevated creatine kinase, he or she should order a creatine kinase isoform test. This will determine whether the creatine kinase was released from skeletal or cardiac muscle.
In the end, if a doc is sitting in front of a high protein eatin? weight trainer with lots of muscle mass (skeletal muscle creatine kinase release, as you might imagine, is closely related to total muscle mass) and sees an elevated creatine kinase score, the last thing on his or her mind should be “heart attack.” Here?s a reference to check out:
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Mar;31(3):414-20
Effects of dietary protein on enzyme activity following exercise-induced muscle injury.
Hayward R, Ferrington DA, Kochanowski LA, Miller LM, Jaworsky GM, Schneider CM
Thanks Christian
My Endo which my Dr. sent me to says I have Stage 2 RKD, with a Case of Insulin resistance, ( Pre Diabetes ) currently put me on Actos, can the actos be beneficial from a weightlifters standpoint ? Dr. sent me to endo because of a test level of 39, the endo decided to compliment me with a battery of blood work.
Thanks
Coach, Ive been digging and really havent found too many articles regarding hip flexors and their importance to speed. Personally, I feel this is a totally unappreciated muscle group in that regard. I wont pretend to be educated enough but you, or anyone else, ever thought of writing something up about it? Just an idea.
Hey Coach…
Here’s some stats to begin:
Age: 31
Weight: 170
Height: 5’11
BF%: ~10%
Not too impressive… lol
I was hoping to ask you a question… I’ve been following the WS4SB program… it’s pretty fun… and I REALLY enjoy training the west side style… At the same time… I also want to build a BIG muscular physique as well… symmetrical and lean etc… I realize eating and lifting heavy are key etc…
So…
If I do not compete in any sport… could I just have a ‘Vanity’ day rather then a RE Lower Body Day…
So run:
ME Upper
ME Lower
RE Upper
and an added vanity day… With say Arms, More Shoulders, Calves etc…
What do you think??
If I had to choose… I would prefer to train for bodybuilding rather then powerlifting… but figure a good strength base at first would be the way to go…
Thoughts??
Coach,
I want to start a style of training similar to the one you outlined in your article “I’ll be damned it works”. I have a few years of lifting under my belt, but I was wondering if this was a routine for an advanced trainee. If so, what could I do to alter it for a less than advanced trainee, using this holistic approach?
Thank you for your time
Just wanted to find the opinion of someone that has worked with a bunch of different athletes. I know this all depends on the situation and person but just for fun I would like to hear yourr top five for each question.
- Sports that produce athletes with the best physiques?
- Sports that requires the most athleticism and turns out the most athletic athletes?
- Sports with the hardest physical training?
[quote]Justscrap wrote:
- Sports that produce athletes with the best physiques?[/quote]
Bodybuilding (if you count it as a sport)
Powerlifting (except the SHW class… with some exceptions)
Men gymnastics
Olympic lifting (except for the SHW class… with some exceptions)
100m sprint
However one must ask the question are athletes in these sports (especially gymnastics and track) lean and muscular because of their sport, the training for their sport or their genetic predisposition to excel in these sports.
[/quote]
2. Sports that requires the most athleticism and turns out the most athletic athletes?[/quote]
Decathlon
[/quote]
3. Sports with the hardest physical training? [/quote]
At the highest level of amateur sport all athletes train super hard 20-30 hours per week. It’s impossible to establish who trains the hardest.
[quote]VibeAlive wrote:
Hey Coach…
Here’s some stats to begin:
Age: 31
Weight: 170
Height: 5’11
BF%: ~10%
Not too impressive… lol
I was hoping to ask you a question… I’ve been following the WS4SB program… it’s pretty fun… and I REALLY enjoy training the west side style… At the same time… I also want to build a BIG muscular physique as well… symmetrical and lean etc… I realize eating and lifting heavy are key etc…
So…
If I do not compete in any sport… could I just have a ‘Vanity’ day rather then a RE Lower Body Day…
So run:
ME Upper
ME Lower
RE Upper
and an added vanity day… With say Arms, More Shoulders, Calves etc…
What do you think??
If I had to choose… I would prefer to train for bodybuilding rather then powerlifting… but figure a good strength base at first would be the way to go…
Thoughts??
[/quote]
Sure or you can simply add some isolation upper body work on the upper body days.
I often include the following in my client’s training:
Day 1. Powerlifting bench day (ME upper)
Day 2. Powerlifting squat/dead day (ME lower)
Day 3. Bodybuilding upper body
Day 4. Old-school day or GPP day
Thib
1: Got any video/photo of jump goodmorning, cos i’ve tried it and i don’t know how actually jump, cos (correct me if i’m wrong) a goodmorning is just like an Romanian Deadlift with the bar on you back, so the legs are straight throughout?
2: With the eccentric strength needed for an increase in vertical jump are you just talking about Altitude/Depth Jumps or Near/Max Eccentrics as well?
Thanks
Thanks very much…
Vibe
Thib, for everyday protein supplementing (besides pwo), you have mentioned before about the different advantages for whey, casein, and concentrate. I was wondering what your opinion is on milk protein isolate? (20% whey/ 80% casein)
-
Would it be just as allergenic as milk? or not even the same thing?
(I know you don’t really like dairy in most of your clients’ diets because it is one of the most allergenic foods. Would this be the same?) -
Would milk protein isolate be the exact same thing or equivelant to, if I were to custom make my protein shake with 20% whey isolate, and 80% micellar casein?
Thanks
Coach I was just wondering what your thoughts are on teens lifting heavy interfering with growth. I haven’t seen any studies on the subject, so I don’t know where the rumor stems from.
Hey coachman CT,
I’ll start off by thanking you for answering all of my questions thus far in this thread. My first semester of CEGEP (thought I’d throw that in to reference that I’m from Quebec too) is coming to an end on December the tenth and contrary to typical Winter tradition,
I plan on commencing a fat loss phase, using your “Destroying Fat: War Room Strategies to Maximize Fat Loss” article template.
I find it difficult to be able to take control of a lot of equipment at once at my gym so basically I am restricted to a few possible circuits and those are even a stretch to be able to set up. This is what I came up with:
3x12-15:
DB Press
Barbell Squat
Bent Over Rows
Lying Leg Curls
Crunches
3x15-20:
Military Press
Leg Press
Sumo Deadlift
Reverse Crunches
3x15-20
Wide Grip Pulldowns
Barbell Curl
Tricep Overhead Extensions
Lateral Raises
How do these look in terms of circuits? Is it safe to do sumo deadlifts at such a high rep range following many other CNS intensive lifts? Secondly, is it a big deal that I moved my vertical pull to the 3rd optional circuit (mainly due to equipment constraints)?
My final question is on my heavy days, should I be incorporating some of the same movements I use in my circuits or use completely different exercises (or is it a matter of preference)?
Thanks. I appreciate your help.
Hey Coach,
Today, I did sprints for the first time in a few months, and I experienced a sensation I’d forgotten about. I never liked running because my lower back would hurt after about four minutes, like an intense fatigue.
I ran around the block when I got outside and after my first sprint, I jogged lightly back to my starting point. After about 4, I decided to walk as intensely as I could without jogging (to eliminate the ‘bounce’) between each sprint. Walking seems to be fine, and allows the fatigue to subside.
Do you have any suggestions as to what this problem could be a result of and/or ways to improve it? I’d just read an article about weak glutes so I was naturally curious if that would be the problem, but I really don’t think my glutes are a weak link of mine.
Also, if you could share any opinions you have on the personal training/nutritional specialist certification programs of ACE, NASM, NSCA, or the ISSA, that’d be great! (Or if you have a different preference for certification programs as a trainer’s first certification, I’d love to hear and check it out)
Thanks for all your contributions!
Nick
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Justscrap wrote:
- Sports that produce athletes with the best physiques?
Bodybuilding (if you count it as a sport)
Powerlifting (except the SHW class… with some exceptions)
Men gymnastics
Olympic lifting (except for the SHW class… with some exceptions)
100m sprint
However one must ask the question are athletes in these sports (especially gymnastics and track) lean and muscular because of their sport, the training for their sport or their genetic predisposition to excel in these sports.
- Sports that requires the most athleticism and turns out the most athletic athletes?
Decathlon
- Sports with the hardest physical training?
At the highest level of amateur sport all athletes train super hard 20-30 hours per week. It’s impossible to establish who trains the hardest.
[/quote]
Coach…What about football and boxing?
[quote]Clown Face wrote:
Thib
1: Got any video/photo of jump goodmorning, cos i’ve tried it and i don’t know how actually jump, cos (correct me if i’m wrong) a goodmorning is just like an Romanian Deadlift with the bar on you back, so the legs are straight throughout?[/quote]
The legs are NOT straight in either a goodmorning or romanian deadlift. There is a slight bend.
[quote]Clown Face wrote:
2: With the eccentric strength needed for an increase in vertical jump are you just talking about Altitude/Depth Jumps or Near/Max Eccentrics as well?
Thanks [/quote]
Any type of eccentric action. altitude drops and depth jumps require a decent eccentric strength base that should be acquired through accentuated eccentric loading (but not necessarily maximal loading).
[quote]TexasTitan wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Justscrap wrote:
- Sports that produce athletes with the best physiques?
Bodybuilding (if you count it as a sport)
Powerlifting (except the SHW class… with some exceptions)
Men gymnastics
Olympic lifting (except for the SHW class… with some exceptions)
100m sprint
However one must ask the question are athletes in these sports (especially gymnastics and track) lean and muscular because of their sport, the training for their sport or their genetic predisposition to excel in these sports.
- Sports that requires the most athleticism and turns out the most athletic athletes?
Decathlon
- Sports with the hardest physical training?
At the highest level of amateur sport all athletes train super hard 20-30 hours per week. It’s impossible to establish who trains the hardest.
Coach…What about football and boxing?
[/quote]
I edited my post (before you posted yours) to include RBs, LBs, DB, and WRs
Thib,
For someone on a fat loss diet who is comsuming carbs moderately and only PWO. Would you recommend that they have slightly heavier carbs than the typical malto/dextrose? i.e. something like white rice/oats/flapjack etc in order to help with hunger.
Thanks
[quote]kaleel86 wrote:
Thib,
For someone on a fat loss diet who is comsuming carbs moderately and only PWO. Would you recommend that they have slightly heavier carbs than the typical malto/dextrose? i.e. something like white rice/oats/flapjack etc in order to help with hunger.
Thanks[/quote]
Sure. When I’m dieting to lose fat I always try to rely mostly on food to feel fuller.
HOWEVER a post-workout drink would be slightly better when it comes to recovery and stimulating an anabolic response.