Thibs New Training Questions #4

Training
921

[quote]LR wrote:

[quote]swans05 wrote:

[quote]LR wrote:
[/quote]

1 - the specialisation basically lays in the concentrated loading but for more specialisation add in ecc-less work and max strength/isolation circuits…give the 2 days in a row a crack, you might not be able to do it now so you might need to work up to doing the full workout…give tour a body a reason to adapt
2 - by ct’s mantra, back and bi’s don’t need specialisation, this is a performance program, not a bodybuilding program…that being said emphasise your scattered accessory work around back or bi’s, depending what you want…i only do row/retraction exercises for my scattered work, no cuffs or traps[/quote]

I appreciate your input – and I must admit that I’m obviously not fully versed in all of CT methods / opinions having only read his latest articles.

I suppose it comes down to what is meant by performance - my general impression from the article is that it is a mass building program.

Despite that, I don’t think it wise to think that back / bi / any other muscle don’t respond to simular variables (if, like me you are using this method from a bodybuilding perspective).

I would argue that more load / time under tension / frequency the more potent the growth stimulus for all muscle groups. The only other consideration is the CNS - so we must play with the variables to allow us to illicit the maximum stimulus based on which one(s) you think are most important.

I personally don’t see any reason to believe that if you are looking to bring up your back or biâ??s, that increasing TUT and frequency would be a bad thing…unless it leads to overtraining - which is not the case for me personally (I have a high training tolerance for back and bi work).
[/quote]

well as suggested, you can use back and bi work as the scattered exercises and do away with traps and cuffs

it all comes down to training finances (ct’s words)…if back and bi’s are your focus then maybe another program is your option but use the same principles (constant tension) for them and ramp pressing muscles with a different split and less focus…you can’t specialise everything

you might have great back and bi tolerance but if you also have sub-par pressing tolerance then lots of that and lots of back/bi’s will tip you over the edge

the first article was titled “train like an athlete look like a bodybuilder” or similar which means that performance is one of the main criteria needing to be adhered to

922

[quote]LR wrote:

[quote]swans05 wrote:

[quote]LR wrote:
[/quote]

1 - the specialisation basically lays in the concentrated loading but for more specialisation add in ecc-less work and max strength/isolation circuits…give the 2 days in a row a crack, you might not be able to do it now so you might need to work up to doing the full workout…give tour a body a reason to adapt
2 - by ct’s mantra, back and bi’s don’t need specialisation, this is a performance program, not a bodybuilding program…that being said emphasise your scattered accessory work around back or bi’s, depending what you want…i only do row/retraction exercises for my scattered work, no cuffs or traps[/quote]

I appreciate your input – and I must admit that I’m obviously not fully versed in all of CT methods / opinions having only read his latest articles.

I suppose it comes down to what is meant by performance - my general impression from the article is that it is a mass building program.

Despite that, I don’t think it wise to think that back / bi / any other muscle don’t respond to simular variables (if, like me you are using this method from a bodybuilding perspective).

I would argue that more load / time under tension / frequency the more potent the growth stimulus for all muscle groups. The only other consideration is the CNS - so we must play with the variables to allow us to illicit the maximum stimulus based on which one(s) you think are most important.

I personally don’t see any reason to believe that if you are looking to bring up your back or biâ??s, that increasing TUT and frequency would be a bad thing…unless it leads to overtraining - which is not the case for me personally (I have a high training tolerance for back and bi work).
[/quote]

IF u re-read the article he explains his view that he feels that triceps shoulders and chest are the standout upper body muscles making them a good target to focus on, thus this program is built around the performance on pressing exercises and he has also found that too much lat work hinders progress on upper body pressing. His way around that and one that suits the muscle group is once a week and more volume.

Clearly if you wanted to specialize on back and/or lats then u wouldn’t do this program you could take a concentrated loading approach which is exactly what CT did with daryl

923

[quote]jonmb11 wrote:
CT,

For sled work immediately after lifting would you add any MAG-10 between lifting and sled work or would the dosage of the protocal recommended in your HPM article be OK?

Thanks[/quote]

It would be okay, with the protocol you’ll still have amino acids floating around for a good hour after your lifting session so there will still be some available for the sled work.

924

CT, with the HPMass Program, any chance you could outline a carb cycle suggestion for someone looking to add mass much like you did for the introduction to the Anaconda Protocol?

I know it obviously depends on body type, how well you respond to carbs, activity level, etc. But assuming we are using either the lean mass or maximum mass gain protocol you already outlined, in your opinion where should we start for the rest of the day?

925

Thanks for the quick reply CT.

Speaking of your HP Mass program… My front deltoids are much more developed than my middle and rear delts. Are there any recommendations you can give to even them out a little. Im thinking with all the pressing I’m doing with the HP Mass program my font delts would only get bigger and more unproportional with my middle and rear delts.

926

Coach, would the HP-mass work well with a warrior’s diet? You have said before, that it does not really matter if you consume your daily calories in one or six meals. Does it still apply here too?

927

[quote]jonmb11 wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply CT.

Speaking of your HP Mass program… My front deltoids are much more developed than my middle and rear delts. Are there any recommendations you can give to even them out a little. Im thinking with all the pressing I’m doing with the HP Mass program my font delts would only get bigger and more unproportional with my middle and rear delts.[/quote]

add medial delts into isolation circuits, avoid any front raises and rear dlets should be fine with all the scattered sets you can give them

928

Thib,

I thoroughly searched, but couldn’t find the forum discussion anymore, where you mentioned, that you don’t and never have kept a training diary yourself.

My question concerns that discussion. I’d be interested to know are there any other reputable coaches that you know of, who share your views on the this(of not considering it necessary)? I am in no way doubting your approaches effectiveness. Just curious, since it goes against what almost all other coaches and experts agree on.

Thanks

929

[quote]Who_Cares wrote:
Coach, would the HP-mass work well with a warrior’s diet? You have said before, that it does not really matter if you consume your daily calories in one or six meals. Does it still apply here too?[/quote]

It’s actually fairly similar to how I eat personally. Chris Shugart and I just completed an article on how I eat, it should be posted shortly.

930

[quote]Golden_Rep wrote:
Thib,

I thoroughly searched, but couldn’t find the forum discussion anymore, where you mentioned, that you don’t and never have kept a training diary yourself.

My question concerns that discussion. I’d be interested to know are there any other reputable coaches that you know of, who share your views on the this(of not considering it necessary)? I am in no way doubting your approaches effectiveness. Just curious, since it goes against what almost all other coaches and experts agree on.

Thanks[/quote]

Actually I said that I never followed a pre-planned training program.

But you are right, I do not keep a training log. By training log I mean a log where I write down every set, rep and weight I lifted. To me this takes away from the tempo and adaptability of a workout. Everytime I tried to keep a log (that you bring to the gym and write down everything you are doing) my gains suffered, mostly because it took the life out of my training and sucked the fun out of it.

I HAVE however kept a “log” of my reflexions on my training sessions that I wrote after I got home from my sessions. These may include some info on volume and intensity but they are mostly qualitative thoughts.

As for which other coach does that? I don’t know and really don’t care. I do not need the validation of other “experts” to know if something works or doesn’t work for me.

For me workout quality is the most important thing… everything that takes me out of my workout rhythm and throw me out of the zone is not welcome in my session. And to ME, writing a log takes away from the workout.

I am honestly yet to see one high level bodybuilder that I’ve been around keep a training log. When I competed in olympic lifting I never saw any lifter log their workouts and very few powerlifters (that I’ve been around) did it too. It doesn’t mean that they didn’t do it or that nobody else did though.

931

[quote]Eazy wrote:
CT, with the HPMass Program, any chance you could outline a carb cycle suggestion for someone looking to add mass much like you did for the introduction to the Anaconda Protocol?

I know it obviously depends on body type, how well you respond to carbs, activity level, etc. But assuming we are using either the lean mass or maximum mass gain protocol you already outlined, in your opinion where should we start for the rest of the day?[/quote]

With a TRADITIONAL diet (eating many smaller meals throughout the day)… which is NOT what I’m doing … it would look something like this…

Assuming an AM workout…

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

SUPPER
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs metabolic drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds

The amount of carbs would be regulated by the volume of the workout and how you look/feel (flat, full)

932

[quote]Gaby 2700 wrote:
Thib, for a lagging triceps what would you implement?

Picking close-grip bench press asa a main exercise or doing extra isolation work? A strength circuit (mainly for triceps) or something like staggered work (for extra volume)?

There are many things but I don’t know wich would be better?
what’s your opininon CT?[/quote]

  1. NO staggered work as it will directly interfere with the pressing work

  2. Any heavy pressing movement will involve the triceps… if you are doing close to 30 sets of pressing a few times a week you shouldn’t have any problem building your triceps… obviously building muscle takes time. If you had a weakness before it might take some time for it to be corrected.

  3. A good exercise selection for the triceps would be: 1) Seated top-half press from pins (bar starting just above forehead) 2) Close-grip bench press (just a tad inside shoulder width) 3) top-half bench press from pins (starting just above the mid-point)

  4. I would add 2-3 isolation exercises for triceps at the end done for 4-5 sets of 6-8 reps

933

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Eazy wrote:
CT, with the HPMass Program, any chance you could outline a carb cycle suggestion for someone looking to add mass much like you did for the introduction to the Anaconda Protocol?

I know it obviously depends on body type, how well you respond to carbs, activity level, etc. But assuming we are using either the lean mass or maximum mass gain protocol you already outlined, in your opinion where should we start for the rest of the day?[/quote]

With a TRADITIONAL diet (eating many smaller meals throughout the day)… which is NOT what I’m doing … it would look something like this…

Assuming an AM workout…

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

SUPPER
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs Metabolic Drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds

The amount of carbs would be regulated by the volume of the workout and how you look/feel (flat, full)[/quote]

CT, what would change assuming a 5:00p.m workout start? Just keep carbs at first two meals and then whatever carbs with the protocol?

934

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
With a TRADITIONAL diet (eating many smaller meals throughout the day)… which is NOT what I’m doing … it would look something like this…

Assuming an AM workout…

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

SUPPER
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs Metabolic Drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds

The amount of carbs would be regulated by the volume of the workout and how you look/feel (flat, full)[/quote]

Interesting. It’s actually pretty close to how I eat when I go home for the holiday.

Just one question - why no vegetables during the post-workout meal?

B.

935

[quote]BiP wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
With a TRADITIONAL diet (eating many smaller meals throughout the day)… which is NOT what I’m doing … it would look something like this…

Assuming an AM workout…

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

SUPPER
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs Metabolic Drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds

The amount of carbs would be regulated by the volume of the workout and how you look/feel (flat, full)[/quote]

Interesting. It’s actually pretty close to how I eat when I go home for the holiday.

Just one question - why no vegetables during the post-workout meal?

B.[/quote]

Just a guess B, but i would assume you wouldnt want to slow the absorption of the meal down any further since you are wanting a medium speed protein source along with a med glycemic startch, and then you load up on the fiberous veggies with the red meat in the evening. just my guess though, i doubt veggies with the post workout meal would make or break you too much though.

936

Ct, what are your choices of exercises to build the stabilizing muscles that are used in upper body pressing? I haven’t been doing any staggered work or isolation work and I think I need to now because I’m doing so much pressing compared to pulling.

Also, I just added 5 pounds to the bar in all my exercises, it felt appropriate in all exercises except my overhead press feels much slower, do you usually do something in this type of situation?

937

Coach Thibs,which one the books you have written is for bodybuilding? As I was thinking of buying one since I have just finnished reading the Poliquin principles.

Also another question, is Triceps/Mid delts cosisting of mostly slow twitch muscles or fast twitch muscles?.Thanks in advance

938

CT, during your ab blitz period, do you do a full ab workout on NCT days? I’m curious if a full ab workout would fatigue the CNS and defeat the purpose of the neural charge workout?

Thanks for all the great info.

939

[quote]Eazy wrote:

[quote]BiP wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
With a TRADITIONAL diet (eating many smaller meals throughout the day)… which is NOT what I’m doing … it would look something like this…

Assuming an AM workout…

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

SUPPER
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs Metabolic Drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds

The amount of carbs would be regulated by the volume of the workout and how you look/feel (flat, full)[/quote]

Interesting. It’s actually pretty close to how I eat when I go home for the holiday.

Just one question - why no vegetables during the post-workout meal?

B.[/quote]

Just a guess B, but i would assume you wouldnt want to slow the absorption of the meal down any further since you are wanting a medium speed protein source along with a med glycemic startch, and then you load up on the fiberous veggies with the red meat in the evening. just my guess though, i doubt veggies with the post workout meal would make or break you too much though.
[/quote]

A+

940

[quote]Eazy wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Eazy wrote:
CT, with the HPMass Program, any chance you could outline a carb cycle suggestion for someone looking to add mass much like you did for the introduction to the Anaconda Protocol?

I know it obviously depends on body type, how well you respond to carbs, activity level, etc. But assuming we are using either the lean mass or maximum mass gain protocol you already outlined, in your opinion where should we start for the rest of the day?[/quote]

With a TRADITIONAL diet (eating many smaller meals throughout the day)… which is NOT what I’m doing … it would look something like this…

Assuming an AM workout…

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

SUPPER
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs Metabolic Drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds

The amount of carbs would be regulated by the volume of the workout and how you look/feel (flat, full)[/quote]

CT, what would change assuming a 5:00p.m workout start? Just keep carbs at first two meals and then whatever carbs with the protocol? [/quote]

BREAKFAST
50-100g of carbs (half from fruits, half from starches)
40-60g of easily digested protein (something like 4 egg whites, 2 whole eggs + 1 scoop of protein)

  • maybe have a shake 3 hours afterbreakfast

LUNCH
40-60g of “slow speed” solid protein (red meat)
Lots of green veggies

PERI-WORKOUT PROTOCOL

  • As mentioned in the article

FIRST SOLID MEAL POST-WORKOUT (ROUGHLY 60-90 MINUTES POST)
40-60g of “medium speed” solid protein (fish, chicken or turkey)
50-100g of carbs with a moderately high glycemic index (rice, rice cakes, carrots, yams, potatoes…)
NO VEGGIES

EVENING SNACK
40-60g of slow speed protein, can be a mix of solid and shake (e.g. cottage cheese with low-carbs Metabolic Drive)
Lot of green veggies
25-30g Almonds