Thibs New Training Questions #4

Training
801

Hey Coach Thibaudeau, I need help with my lower body pressing workouts. I’ll apologize in advance for such a long question, but it’s very specific to my situation. I’ve had to modify the workout because I have an IT band injury at my hip and have some hip bursitis as well that prevents me from doing squats and leg presses. Deadlifts do not bother the injury much, so I decided to go ahead and turn the next 6 weeks into a deadlift spec and do 2 deadlift type lower body pressing movements instead of 1 squat based movement and 1 deadlift based movement.

The exercises I’ve selected for my lower body pressing days are deadlifts from a deficit and conventional deadlifts. I’ve only been working up to 14 sets total, with the heaviest set being at around 80-85% of my max. My problem is that this tires the hell out of me. I fatigue quickly and this greatly effects my strength. Sometimes I start grinding when I’m at 75% of my max. Should I go back to the drawing board, reduce my sets or reduce my reps per set, or what?

In case you need more information, I’m 6ft 4in tall, and am quite a bit stronger on deadlifts than squats. My lower legs are long in proportion to my upper legs. I do tend to use a lot of lower back and glutes to deadlift, and my lower back tends to fatigue the most. I do not experience nearly the same level of fatigue for my upper body pressing. I generally do 25-30 sets spread out over 3 upper body pressing exercises and feel amped up by the end.

802

are you ramping both variations from scratch or starting one where the other finishes like mp/ip/bp?

803

gaby - i’d go for the 'easiest one" for starters, you’ve gotta increase wt next cycle too remember

804

[quote]minsarale wrote:
Mr. Thibs, I read that you wrote that it’s more effective to workout 7 days a week for 35min then 3 sessions a week lasting 3 hours. Also that you with some clients have 18 workouts a week. Regarding that, when doing more workouts then 7 days a week do you split the 35min and do that workout during different times a day? or do you do 7 workouts a day and the rest neural charge workouts to get to 18 workouts?. I am thinking of doing more then 7 workouts a week since have the time right now and want to try it out Thanks in advance Coach[/quote]

NO… it’s more effective to train more often while having the same total training time… It’s better to do 7 x 35 minutes (roughly 3:45 hours) than 3 x 1:15 (also 3:45).

Neural charge workouts can last as little as 5 minutes and as much as 20-25.

The shortest “regular” workouts would be roughly 25 minutes and that is if you only do one main exercise and it’s staggered assistance work.

In your case, a good option would be (if you can manage it):

9:00AM: NC workout - roughly 20-30 minutes

11:00AM: HPmass full workout

3:00PM: Either an eccentric-less session for the muscles trained earlier OR and isolation session for the MAIN muscles trained (primary emphasis). In the later case stick to isolation exercises only. Either performed as circuits of 3 exercises for 6-12 reps OR as stand alone execises.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:

Upper body performance isolation circuits
A1. Floor flies 10 reps
A2. Cable cross-over 10 reps
A3. Regular flies 10 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times

B1. DB deadstart lateral raise 8 reps
B2. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight
20 seconds rest
B3. DB deadstart front raise max reps with same weight
B4. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight

  • Perform circuit 3 times

C1. Decline DB triceps extension 6 reps
C2. Rope triceps extension 6 reps
C3. Overhead DB triceps extension 6 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times
805

thoughts on “long term” ramp x 5 days in a row to hit a “peak” workout on day 5

day 1 - ramp to 80% + 1 wave
2 - 82% and do waves + 1 wave
3 - 84% and do waves + 2 waves
4 - 86% and do waves + 2 waves
5 - 88% and do waves + 3 waves

more overall work but less overall tonnage per workout?

if this is any good then could you “overlap” lower body into this:

day 1 - upper 80%
2 - upper 82
3 - upper 84
4 - upper 86 / lower 80
5 - upper 88 / lower 82
5 - upper 80 / lower 84
6 - upper 82 / lower 86
7 - upper 84 / lower 88and so repeat

i have time for 1 workout a day only but not a long time looking for a way to spread this out to fit my schedule better…did week 3 day 2 today upper only w/ assistance and took just on an hr but lower body takes me longer to go through…i can fly through upper body for some reason

as the original program you’d do military/incline/bench and squats/deads

806

Hi Coach, I had a couple of questions I was hoping you could answer about eccentricless training in HP Mass. I am planning on an evening eccentricless session after my morning HP Mass workout. These would mostly emphasize the shoulder/pressing muscles or legs that I worked that day, I also want to bring up my biceps, is it ok to add eccentricless curls to most of these sessions or is it better to just do them on lat/bicep day?

Also you said in the “elite nutrition” spill that if you’ve already had Anaconda that day 1 scoop of SWF and 2 MAG-10 would be ok… should these be consumed following the same 1/3 guideline, or should most of it be taken in before the sessions since it will be shorter?

Thanks for your time

807

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]minsarale wrote:
Mr. Thibs, I read that you wrote that it’s more effective to workout 7 days a week for 35min then 3 sessions a week lasting 3 hours. Also that you with some clients have 18 workouts a week. Regarding that, when doing more workouts then 7 days a week do you split the 35min and do that workout during different times a day? or do you do 7 workouts a day and the rest neural charge workouts to get to 18 workouts?. I am thinking of doing more then 7 workouts a week since have the time right now and want to try it out Thanks in advance Coach[/quote]

NO… it’s more effective to train more often while having the same total training time… It’s better to do 7 x 35 minutes (roughly 3:45 hours) than 3 x 1:15 (also 3:45).

Neural charge workouts can last as little as 5 minutes and as much as 20-25.

The shortest “regular” workouts would be roughly 25 minutes and that is if you only do one main exercise and it’s staggered assistance work.

In your case, a good option would be (if you can manage it):

9:00AM: NC workout - roughly 20-30 minutes

11:00AM: HPmass full workout

3:00PM: Either an eccentric-less session for the muscles trained earlier OR and isolation session for the MAIN muscles trained (primary emphasis). In the later case stick to isolation exercises only. Either performed as circuits of 3 exercises for 6-12 reps OR as stand alone execises.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:

Upper body performance isolation circuits
A1. Floor flies 10 reps
A2. Cable cross-over 10 reps
A3. Regular flies 10 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times

B1. DB deadstart lateral raise 8 reps
B2. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight
20 seconds rest
B3. DB deadstart front raise max reps with same weight
B4. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight

  • Perform circuit 3 times

C1. Decline DB triceps extension 6 reps
C2. Rope triceps extension 6 reps
C3. Overhead DB triceps extension 6 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times[/quote]

CT, would it be ok to pick on exercese from each circuit and repeat the 3 times (in the form of a circuit) if I want to add isolation work at the ned of an upper body seesion (in week 1 of the 3 weeks cycle)?

Would you care to explain:

  • In what cases you do normal isolation circuits and in wich you use max reps circuits? (it’s a great differance to me and it’s really messed up too.)
  • What’s the body’s response to each type of circuits?

Thanks in advance.

808

[quote]swans05 wrote:
are you ramping both variations from scratch or starting one where the other finishes like mp/ip/bp?[/quote]

I start with deficit deadlifts and ramp up, then start my conventional deadlifts where I left off with the deficit deadlifts.

809

hi everybody. i am new around here and i didnt know where to post these two questions which are bothering me.i hope someone will take time and answer them. i would like to know what do terms "volume"and “intensity” stand for. if i understood correctly, high volume means higher number of reps and sets and higher intensity means higher barbell loading for example. i ve read different articles and i must say i am a bit confused.so when someone says higher volume higher intensity he actually means lots of sets with fairly heavy weight , right?

the second question would be concerning activation workout/neural charge workout. is there any difference in these two types of training. as i watched these videos those two terms seem akmost the same. whats the difference besides one is done before and the other on non training day? thanks for time and effort,i appreciate it.

810

[quote]Gaby 2700 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]minsarale wrote:
Mr. Thibs, I read that you wrote that it’s more effective to workout 7 days a week for 35min then 3 sessions a week lasting 3 hours. Also that you with some clients have 18 workouts a week. Regarding that, when doing more workouts then 7 days a week do you split the 35min and do that workout during different times a day? or do you do 7 workouts a day and the rest neural charge workouts to get to 18 workouts?. I am thinking of doing more then 7 workouts a week since have the time right now and want to try it out Thanks in advance Coach[/quote]

NO… it’s more effective to train more often while having the same total training time… It’s better to do 7 x 35 minutes (roughly 3:45 hours) than 3 x 1:15 (also 3:45).

Neural charge workouts can last as little as 5 minutes and as much as 20-25.

The shortest “regular” workouts would be roughly 25 minutes and that is if you only do one main exercise and it’s staggered assistance work.

In your case, a good option would be (if you can manage it):

9:00AM: NC workout - roughly 20-30 minutes

11:00AM: HPmass full workout

3:00PM: Either an eccentric-less session for the muscles trained earlier OR and isolation session for the MAIN muscles trained (primary emphasis). In the later case stick to isolation exercises only. Either performed as circuits of 3 exercises for 6-12 reps OR as stand alone execises.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:

Upper body performance isolation circuits
A1. Floor flies 10 reps
A2. Cable cross-over 10 reps
A3. Regular flies 10 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times

B1. DB deadstart lateral raise 8 reps
B2. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight
20 seconds rest
B3. DB deadstart front raise max reps with same weight
B4. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight

  • Perform circuit 3 times

C1. Decline DB triceps extension 6 reps
C2. Rope triceps extension 6 reps
C3. Overhead DB triceps extension 6 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times[/quote]

CT, would it be ok to pick on exercese from each circuit and repeat the 3 times (in the form of a circuit) if I want to add isolation work at the ned of an upper body seesion (in week 1 of the 3 weeks cycle)?

Would you care to explain:

  • In what cases you do normal isolation circuits and in wich you use max reps circuits? (it’s a great differance to me and it’s really messed up too.)
  • What’s the body’s response to each type of circuits?

Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Yes you can pick one exercise per muscle and do one circuit with them.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOTH TYPES OF CIRCUITS.

All my isolation circuits really are max rep circuits. When I give a number of reps it’s only to give you a broad idea of the weight to use. In reality I don’t even count reps.

811

[quote]jormanders74 wrote:

[quote]swans05 wrote:
are you ramping both variations from scratch or starting one where the other finishes like mp/ip/bp?[/quote]

I start with deficit deadlifts and ramp up, then start my conventional deadlifts where I left off with the deficit deadlifts.[/quote]

with long legs those deficits deads might not the best for you, especially if your a "back’ deadlifter in which case you won’t spreading the stress of the lift around enough thus causing localised fatigue…maybe go sumo, conventional, mid shin ht as your 3

812

[quote]mlad3nk0 wrote:
hi everybody. i am new around here and i didnt know where to post these two questions which are bothering me.i hope someone will take time and answer them. i would like to know what do terms "volume"and “intensity” stand for. if i understood correctly, high volume means higher number of reps and sets and higher intensity means higher barbell loading for example. i ve read different articles and i must say i am a bit confused.so when someone says higher volume higher intensity he actually means lots of sets with fairly heavy weight , right?

the second question would be concerning activation workout/neural charge workout. is there any difference in these two types of training. as i watched these videos those two terms seem akmost the same. whats the difference besides one is done before and the other on non training day? thanks for time and effort,i appreciate it.[/quote]

sets x reps = volume

% of wt lifted relative to your max = intensity

the activation part is a single exercise performed before an upper or lower body session to act a s primer to the main session

neural charge workouts is a mini workout of 3 - 5 full body type exercises that basically to maintain nervosus system activation on off days or those where you feel sluggish

813

CT, (or anyone who might know)

The wave loading for weeks 2 and 5 of the Lower Body Pressing day end on a MTW set.
If this is not a typo, what is the reasoning for this?

Also, in weeks 2 and 5 for Upper Body Pressing, a step-wave loading (plateau loading) is used. What is the reason for this, and why only for Upper Body and not Lower? (I assume because, via experiment, they respond better to these styles of loading, but my question is “why is that so?”)

I don’t think this has been asked yet, sorry if it was in another forum

Thanks!

814

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Gaby 2700 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]minsarale wrote:
Mr. Thibs, I read that you wrote that it’s more effective to workout 7 days a week for 35min then 3 sessions a week lasting 3 hours. Also that you with some clients have 18 workouts a week. Regarding that, when doing more workouts then 7 days a week do you split the 35min and do that workout during different times a day? or do you do 7 workouts a day and the rest neural charge workouts to get to 18 workouts?. I am thinking of doing more then 7 workouts a week since have the time right now and want to try it out Thanks in advance Coach[/quote]

NO… it’s more effective to train more often while having the same total training time… It’s better to do 7 x 35 minutes (roughly 3:45 hours) than 3 x 1:15 (also 3:45).

Neural charge workouts can last as little as 5 minutes and as much as 20-25.

The shortest “regular” workouts would be roughly 25 minutes and that is if you only do one main exercise and it’s staggered assistance work.

In your case, a good option would be (if you can manage it):

9:00AM: NC workout - roughly 20-30 minutes

11:00AM: HPmass full workout

3:00PM: Either an eccentric-less session for the muscles trained earlier OR and isolation session for the MAIN muscles trained (primary emphasis). In the later case stick to isolation exercises only. Either performed as circuits of 3 exercises for 6-12 reps OR as stand alone execises.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE:

Upper body performance isolation circuits
A1. Floor flies 10 reps
A2. Cable cross-over 10 reps
A3. Regular flies 10 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times

B1. DB deadstart lateral raise 8 reps
B2. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight
20 seconds rest
B3. DB deadstart front raise max reps with same weight
B4. DB standing lateral raise max reps with same weight

  • Perform circuit 3 times

C1. Decline DB triceps extension 6 reps
C2. Rope triceps extension 6 reps
C3. Overhead DB triceps extension 6 reps

  • Perform circuit 3 times[/quote]

CT, would it be ok to pick on exercese from each circuit and repeat the 3 times (in the form of a circuit) if I want to add isolation work at the ned of an upper body seesion (in week 1 of the 3 weeks cycle)?

Would you care to explain:

  • In what cases you do normal isolation circuits and in wich you use max reps circuits? (it’s a great differance to me and it’s really messed up too.)
  • What’s the body’s response to each type of circuits?

Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Yes you can pick one exercise per muscle and do one circuit with them.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOTH TYPES OF CIRCUITS.

All my isolation circuits really are max rep circuits. When I give a number of reps it’s only to give you a broad idea of the weight to use. In reality I don’t even count reps.[/quote]

Now it’s making sense. Thanks again coach!

EDIT: Now I have some questions regarding grip training and forearm training.
(funny how whenever I just want to give a simple thanks another questions pops in my mind - I want to underline that I’m not asking questions to occupy your time on purpose and I’m really sorry if my question are stupid at times)

  • You once had a long post about training grip by implementing different grip types on deadlifts. Can that be done in the wave loading of the deadlift (or variation) in the lowere body day? Now I’ve tried grippers and if I train with them for during one day I get a stronger grip but if I stop that the next day, my grip strength goes back to baseline.

  • I’ll need to improve my forearms too beacuse when having long limbs it doesn’t look good to have weak forearms. You mentioned a couple of times that the formar work would be better done staggered between sets of pressing. Do you have some exercises that you’d recomand?

    Also considering that forearms are tonic muscles the training is based on fatigue loading right?

815

Coach, I would like to ask your opinion about piracetam. As I know, for instance, Charles Poliquin has his athletes to use this drug, so I’m curious about your take on it as well.

816

Hi CT

Quick question, how did you approach your supplements when you were training twice a day whilst using Anaconda protocol?

I am a professional MMA fighter, and have been for 8 years.
I train roughly 5 hours per day with my strength and conditioning workout in the morning and my technical and sparring work in the morning.

Ive been using Anaconda Protocol 1 in the morning for my strength and conditioning workout and its giving nice results.
But for the evening mma session, I have been having a simple whey protein workout shape before and after the workout

How do you reccomend approaching this with supplements?
Would you do the same Anaconda protocol for BOTH workouts?
Pre, peri and post workout Anaconda protocol 1 for both morning and evening workouts?
Thanks for any advice

817

Hey coach, now that I have more time I definitely would like to do some more eccentric-less work for growth but I have a few questions:

  1. Eccentric-less training has been brought up in other articles but will there be a main video about all aspects of it? For instance like the neural charge workout video.

  2. Is eccentric-less training good for growth for all muscles? I’ve seen it talked about for the lats/biceps and also for legs but not as much for the upper pressing muscles. I was thinking a circuit of 3x20m or so of rows, curls, overhead extension performed with a sled/tire. What do you think?

  3. Is it really better the more you do it? For instance if I did the above example 3 times per week after my strength workouts would that be better than just once a week after my back/bi workout?

  4. Should the difficulty be about that of a MFP by the end of the 20m?

Thanks a lot

818

CT, I have been following your new training methods since your IBB/Training videos featuring Daryl and Alex. In the early videos you made no mention of finding your max and caluclating how the training would progress and so I was training by feel.

MON: Upper performance + 1 lower

Tues: Upper Performance + 1 lower

Wed: Upper Performance + 1 lower

Thurs: Lower Body

Fri: Lats/Biceps/Abs

Sat:Neural Charge/ Light Full Body

Sun: Neural Charge

I have had great gains and was wondering if calculating the maxes as you did in your new article series is necessary or just another method, would going be feel work just as well?

I prefer going by feel because some days I feel amped and do more other days I do less but, if I am missing out on gains I may rethink it.

819

CT
yesterday I tried your bench press method by shrugging my lats. I watched the video reference you posted in another thread so I think I was doing it right. Did you feel any soreness or tightness in your shoulder after trying it the first time? I have a little tightness in my left rear delt and trap but not the right. Either my left is less developed than.my right, I did have an injury, or I’m doing it wrong.

820

[quote]swans05 wrote:

[quote]jormanders74 wrote:

[quote]swans05 wrote:
are you ramping both variations from scratch or starting one where the other finishes like mp/ip/bp?[/quote]

I start with deficit deadlifts and ramp up, then start my conventional deadlifts where I left off with the deficit deadlifts.[/quote]

with long legs those deficits deads might not the best for you, especially if your a "back’ deadlifter in which case you won’t spreading the stress of the lift around enough thus causing localised fatigue…maybe go sumo, conventional, mid shin ht as your 3[/quote]

Thanks, i was considering dropping the deficit deadlifts and replacing them with something else. I’m still interested in what CT thinks though, too.