Sweet as, will take this advice under my wing. Cheers
CT, I believe you wrote once that the least amount of training to maintain muscle would be 2x a week. Do you still believe this? If so how would it be set up ideally? I find myself strapped for time weeks at a time and I would prefer to train as best as possible during.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I found pulling muscles to respond best to sets of anywhere between 6 and 12 reps. I don’t feel like sets of 3 reps are great (although they still work) for the back. It’s not that sets of 3 don’t work. But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps and as such it is a better investment to train the lats in the higher rep zone.[/quote]
Do you still recommend lower reps for pushing exercises? How about legs?
B.
[quote]BiP wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I found pulling muscles to respond best to sets of anywhere between 6 and 12 reps. I don’t feel like sets of 3 reps are great (although they still work) for the back. It’s not that sets of 3 don’t work. But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps and as such it is a better investment to train the lats in the higher rep zone.[/quote]
Do you still recommend lower reps for pushing exercises? How about legs?
B.[/quote]
Yes, I found that different muscle groups and movement patterns respond to different training stimuli.
I divide them into 3 groups:
High performance muscles: these are designed to perform powerful actions, they are your “fighting muscles”. The muscles that allow you to throw a destructive punch, or throw a javelin (or a grenade depending on the year) at an enemy. These muscles are commonly known as pressing muscles. Pressing is a powerful action. The muscles involved in it respond best to performance-based training. Heavy lifting, explosive movements, low reps, fewer exercises for more sets. The also respond well to advanced techniques such as cluster sets, using bands and chains to accommodate resistance and also tolerate eccentric loading well. For the upper body we are talking about the chest, triceps and deltoids (front and lateral heads). The high performance pressing muscles should be trained more often than most muscles. Performance development requires frequency.
- High performance assistants: in the past these were often called “active stabilizers”. I don’t like that term because depending on the movement and type of contractions, any muscle in the human body can be called to act as a stabilizer. Me, I put the muscles that are directly helping the high performance pressing muscles during a pressing movement by providing a strong base to push from via a active stabilization of the shoulder girdle. In that group when it comes to the upper body I put the traps, rhomboids, rear delts and rotator cuff muscles. These muscles should be trained at the same frequency as pressing muscles (during the same workout). They do not need to be trained as heavy and with the same training techniques, but you shouldn’t go light either. Remember that these muscles must be strong enough to facilitate the job of the powerful pressing muscles.
Additional note on “stabilizers”: there is a lot of mix-ups between stabilizers and fixators. The former make a joint more stable by actively participating in the movement while the later simply make the whole body more stable while you are performing an action. Abs for example are often called stabilizers, but most of the time they are actually fixators.
- Foundational muscles: these muscles are secondary when it comes to peak performance (except for some very specific functions like swimming) but they are still important when it comes to providing the body with structural balance and increase the overall solidity of the body. For the upper body we are talking about the lats, biceps and abs. These muscles respond to a completely different form of training than the high performance muscles. They require more volume, but don’t handle eccentric loading well (and don’t respond well to it anyway), they need less frequency of training and more exercises variation. They respond more to relatively higher rep ranges (6-12) than to lower reps (1-5). Bands, chains and clusters are not very effective for these muscles but isometric actions (either on its own or blended in a set) are. These muscles respond very well to a high volume of eccentric-less work.
[quote]EvanX wrote:
CT, I believe you wrote once that the least amount of training to maintain muscle would be 2x a week. Do you still believe this? If so how would it be set up ideally? I find myself strapped for time weeks at a time and I would prefer to train as best as possible during.[/quote]
I don’t think I ever said that. I mentioned that for maximal growth a muscle should be trained twice a week, or more. This is especially true of pushing muscles.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]EvanX wrote:
CT, I believe you wrote once that the least amount of training to maintain muscle would be 2x a week. Do you still believe this? If so how would it be set up ideally? I find myself strapped for time weeks at a time and I would prefer to train as best as possible during.[/quote]
I don’t think I ever said that. I mentioned that for maximal growth a muscle should be trained twice a week, or more. This is especially true of pushing muscles.[/quote]
Huh, maybe I was dreaming. Well then is there a minimum amount of training required to maintain muscle? Or does it depend on the individual?
Coach,
I tried to steal as much from you as I could keeping some individual restrictions in mind. I certainly realize your very busy and I don’t know where the line stops from asking too much on a program, I am humbly trying to learn from you. This is for my wife. I was wondering if you’d give it a quick look and let me know if you see anything that would be off base here in going with your current thinking on the programing of training.
I do something very similar to this myself, but not exactly. I don’t have access to a sled or anything in Afghanistan.
Day 1
A. Med Ball Throws 3-5 sets for 3-5 reps until you feel ready to train
B. Over head press ramp up by 3 reps until you start slowing down
C. High incline press starting at the weight you left off on the oh pressing ramp up by 3 until you start to slow down
D. Flat Bench Press Starting at the weight you left off on the high incline presssing ramp up by 3 until you start to slow down
E. PJR’s 2x6-12 max reps
F. Using dumbbells Lateral Raise, to OH Press to Using sled: Front raise, Chest Fly, Chest Press as little rest as possible max
reps for each exercise 1 set
Day 2
Preferably done in morning if not no Power Drive, if at night have a scoop of Surge Recovery before training
First 1 scoop Power Drive
Push Press with 12lb db’s x3
rest 20-45 seconds
Explosive Band pull apart x3
rest 20-45 seconds
Jump onto bench x3
rest 20-45 seconds
repeat for 10 minutes
Another scoop Power Drive
Day 3
A. Broad Jump in grass so that your landing on softer surface 3-5 sets for 3-5 reps until you feel ready to train
B. Romanian Deadlift down to below knees ramp up by 3 reps until you start to slow down
C. Conventional Deadlift starting at the weight you stopped with romanian deadlift ramp up by 1 rep until you start to slow down
D. Trap Bar Deadlift starting at the weight you stopped with on conventional deadlift ramp up by 1 rep until you start to slow down
E. Long lunges to Fitness ball leg curls to Hip Thrusters (glute briges with shoulders on bench) to Glute bridges as little rest as possible max reps for each exercise 1 set
Day 4
Preferably done in morning if not no Power Drive, if at night have a scoop of Surge Recovery before training
First 1 scoop Power Drive
1 arm snatch with 12lb db x3 catch breath between each arm
rest 20-45 seconds
1 chin-up explosive
rest 20-45 seconds
1 push-up explosive
rest 20-45 seconds
repeat for 10 minutes
Another scoop of Power Drive, unless done at night
Day 5
A. 1 Arm Chinese Row work up by 3 until slows down
B. Pull-ups 1x3
C. Chin-ups 1x3
D. Blast strap fat man pull-ups work up by three using x-vest until slow down
E. Standing EZ-Bar curls 2x6-12 max reps sets
F. Using Sled Back Fly to Face Pull to Lat Row to Row for 1 set of max reps
G. Using Band station Back Fly to Face Pull to Lat Row to Row for 1 set of max reps
Day 6
A. Walk backwards with sled in crouched position ramping up for 2 sets 20 reps each leg catch breath between sets and exercieses
B. Walk forward with sled ramping up for 2 sets 20 reps each leg catch breath between sets and exercises
C. Pull throughs with sled 1 set of max reps catch breath between sets and exercises
D. Lunges 1 set max reps catch breath between sets and exercises
CT, when training high performance assistants (traps, rhomboids, rear delts) as staggered sets, do you use weighted normal exercises or non-taxing ones using blast straps and bands?
CT, I believe you have mentioned hamstrings are less tolerant to eccentric loading, therefore you should mix heavy lifting with a high volume of eccentric-less work for them. Would adding seated leg curls using a band in between a exercise like a romanian deadlift be good to add more mechanical loading for the hamstrings? I know i could always use pull-throughs with the sled but was curious about the bands.
CT, I really appreciate your training methods. I want to gain 20 pounds of muscle without gaining fat. Do you think its possile. If so, can give me the training and diet plans of how to do that. Any help from you will be appreciated.
CT,
You included the lateral head of the shoulder in performance muscles. Do you often go heavy with side raises and other exercises that target the side head? Are these exercises done at other times or are they just included in the max rep circuits on the performance day?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Yes, I found that different muscle groups and movement patterns respond to different training stimuli.
[/quote]
Thanks for the long response, coach! Would you put legs in the high performance muscles category? Also, when using different rep ranges for different muscles, would (in your experience) autoregulation take care of getting roughly the suitable number of sets, or should there be a number to (roughly) aim for?
B.
[quote]BiP wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Yes, I found that different muscle groups and movement patterns respond to different training stimuli.
[/quote]
Thanks for the long response, coach! Would you put legs in the high performance muscles category? Also, when using different rep ranges for different muscles, would (in your experience) autoregulation take care of getting roughly the suitable number of sets, or should there be a number to (roughly) aim for?
B.[/quote]
Correct… that was part of an article about the upper body. Legs are “weird” in that they tend to respond equally well to most types of rep ranges. They also need a lot of volume to grow, but training them with a lot of lifting movements can be draining on the nervous system. The best way to train them is to focus on two big basic movements, one hamstring isolation exercises and A LOT of sled work.
We use heavy squats, trap bar deadlift, front squats and leg press to stimulate with heavy lifting (2 exercises per workout) and bulk up the training volume by doing a lot of eccentric-less work with the sled/prowler.
For example we normally do 3-4 different exercises with the sled/prowler:
- Backward walking in a crouched stance (knees bent 90 degrees)
- Sled pull-through
- Prowler pushing
- Pulling the sled, walking with straight legs
Normally we do several sets of 20-30 yards and try to increase the volume over time.
[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:
CT,
You included the lateral head of the shoulder in performance muscles. Do you often go heavy with side raises and other exercises that target the side head? Are these exercises done at other times or are they just included in the max rep circuits on the performance day?[/quote]
By that I mean that all pressing muscles are trained mainly for performance. This means that the bulk of the training for every pressing muscle is done by doing… pressing exercises. We do not isolate portions of a muscle or muscles during the performance portion of the workout.
Isolation work can be added at the end of the session, once the performance stuff has been done. So isolation work for the delts, triceps and chest and be performed when everything else is done. They are either performed as a circuit or straight sets and the rep range is normally 6 to 8.
I PERSONALLY do not include many of these isolation exercises, I prefer to use a higher volume of performance stuff.
[quote]Eazy wrote:
CT, I believe you have mentioned hamstrings are less tolerant to eccentric loading, therefore you should mix heavy lifting with a high volume of eccentric-less work for them. Would adding seated leg curls using a band in between a exercise like a romanian deadlift be good to add more mechanical loading for the hamstrings? I know i could always use pull-throughs with the sled but was curious about the bands. [/quote]
FAR FAR inferior to sled pull-through… not even in the same league. But it will still have some benefits.
[quote]thoughts1053 wrote:
CT, when training high performance assistants (traps, rhomboids, rear delts) as staggered sets, do you use weighted normal exercises or non-taxing ones using blast straps and bands?[/quote]
Both. In a video we shot explaining this workout I’m using:
- Thib rear delt (rear delt work on the pulldown machine using abs straps)
- Blast straps rear delts
- Military press shrugs (from the starting position of a military press, bring the bar to eyes level using only a shoulder shrug)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I found pulling muscles to respond best to sets of anywhere between 6 and 12 reps. I don’t feel like sets of 3 reps are great (although they still work) for the back. It’s not that sets of 3 don’t work. But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps and as such it is a better investment to train the lats in the higher rep zone.[/quote]
What about Power Shrugs & Power (Widegrip) Upright Rows?
[quote]tolismann wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I found pulling muscles to respond best to sets of anywhere between 6 and 12 reps. I don’t feel like sets of 3 reps are great (although they still work) for the back. It’s not that sets of 3 don’t work. But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps and as such it is a better investment to train the lats in the higher rep zone.[/quote]
What about Power Shrugs & Power (Widegrip) Upright Rows?[/quote]
Notice that I mentioned specifically that I was talking mostly about lats (quote: “But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps”). Traps work is part of the upper body performance assistant. Refer to the text I posted, specifically this part where I talk about the traps, rhomboids and rotator cuff muscles:
“These muscles should be trained at the same frequency as pressing muscles (during the same workout). They do not need to be trained as heavy and with the same training techniques, but you shouldnâ??t go light either. Remember that these muscles must be strong enough to facilitate the job of the powerful pressing muscles”
So sets of 6-8 reps are generally what I recommend.
BTW. I wouldn’t really consider the power upright row as a pure pulling movement. Yes, you are “pulling” on the bar, but a lot of the movement is performed by utilizing a leg drive (lower body pushing) and the deltoids are heavily involved (deltoids are among the upper body performance muscles).
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
[quote]tolismann wrote:
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Actually I found pulling muscles to respond best to sets of anywhere between 6 and 12 reps. I don’t feel like sets of 3 reps are great (although they still work) for the back. It’s not that sets of 3 don’t work. But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps and as such it is a better investment to train the lats in the higher rep zone.[/quote]
What about Power Shrugs & Power (Widegrip) Upright Rows?[/quote]
Notice that I mentioned specifically that I was talking mostly about lats (quote: “But I found that the back (lats to be precise) do respond better to higher reps”). Traps work is part of the upper body performance assistant. Refer to the text I posted, specifically this part where I talk about the traps, rhomboids and rotator cuff muscles:
“These muscles should be trained at the same frequency as pressing muscles (during the same workout). They do not need to be trained as heavy and with the same training techniques, but you shouldnâ??t go light either. Remember that these muscles must be strong enough to facilitate the job of the powerful pressing muscles”
So sets of 6-8 reps are generally what I recommend.
BTW. I wouldn’t really consider the power upright row as a pure pulling movement. Yes, you are “pulling” on the bar, but a lot of the movement is performed by utilizing a leg drive (lower body pushing) and the deltoids are heavily involved (deltoids are among the upper body performance muscles).[/quote]
coach, when do you work the mid back muscles for thickness?
Hellow, CT. I whent through your book (High-Threshold Muscle Building) for the fifth time now and I don’t get some stuff and I’d be very gratefull if you’d explain it. (although it might sound stupid)
First up is that you say that you should always strive to increase the acceleration or the load, yet a chapter ater you talk about the benefits of eccentric-acentuated work as a superior stimulus.
Now I see you exploiting explosive reps more and more and using eccentric-less training a lot.
Second up: I don’t get the term force cureve.
If you could give me some answers I’d apreciate it.