Thibs New Training Questions #3

Training
161

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

From experience, trying to maintain (or even gain) strength while on a fat loss phase is the best way to prevent muscle loss.

When you are on a diet, your body will tend to waste its muscle away. To avoid doing so it needs a darn good reason to keep it. If you ask the muscles to contract with less intensity when on a diet, your body will perceive that it doesn’t need as much muscle mass since it is not asked to move heavy loads anymore.

Keeping heavy lifting in is the best way to ‘‘convince’’ your body that the capacity to produce a lot of force is needed for survival and it will tend to keep more muscle.

Last year I had three competitive bodybuilders who maintained strength on most lifts and even gained strength in some up till the last week prior to their show. In fact, my partner Nick established a new bench press PR 10 days prior to his contest after dieting down for 12 weeks.

Now, not everybody can maintain strength as they lose weight. Those who are overly aggressive with their fat loss efforts (cut calories too much and do too much cardio in hope of achieving faster results) and those who tend to lose a lot of water weight will generally have a hard time maintaining strength. That doesn’t mean that they should not attempt to.

[/quote]

In your experience…

  1. Do your lifters tend to keep all of their muscle if they keep all of their strength?

  2. About how much weight do you feel is a good amount to lose per week without risking much/any muscle loss?

162

coach from your experience if a lifter has soft joints the supports and the half lifts in power rack can strengthen the joints?i want to try supports for the squat exercise.can i use percentages form 110%-125% for 4-10 sec or more?is ideal to try to combine the same time supports and half lifts in power rack or cycle them separately?for the half lifts what percentages is ideal to use?

163

Hi Thibs,

I have tried searching and searching but to no avail. In your destroying fat article and for fat loss in general can the lactate inducing workouts mentioned be replaced with metabollic pairings workouts suggested?

Many thanks

Scott

164

[quote]Needmassquick wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

From experience, trying to maintain (or even gain) strength while on a fat loss phase is the best way to prevent muscle loss.

When you are on a diet, your body will tend to waste its muscle away. To avoid doing so it needs a darn good reason to keep it. If you ask the muscles to contract with less intensity when on a diet, your body will perceive that it doesn’t need as much muscle mass since it is not asked to move heavy loads anymore.

Keeping heavy lifting in is the best way to ‘‘convince’’ your body that the capacity to produce a lot of force is needed for survival and it will tend to keep more muscle.

Last year I had three competitive bodybuilders who maintained strength on most lifts and even gained strength in some up till the last week prior to their show. In fact, my partner Nick established a new bench press PR 10 days prior to his contest after dieting down for 12 weeks.

Now, not everybody can maintain strength as they lose weight. Those who are overly aggressive with their fat loss efforts (cut calories too much and do too much cardio in hope of achieving faster results) and those who tend to lose a lot of water weight will generally have a hard time maintaining strength. That doesn’t mean that they should not attempt to.

[/quote]

In your experience…

  1. Do your lifters tend to keep all of their muscle if they keep all of their strength?

  2. About how much weight do you feel is a good amount to lose per week without risking much/any muscle loss?[/quote]

  3. If they keep up their strength, there is normally no muscle loss. Yes, we could argue that strength can be improved via neurological factors, so it is technically possible to get stronger while actually losing some muscle mass… but it is highly unlikely.

  4. That is an individual thing. Someone who is already fairly lean cannot lose as fast as someone who is obese. Someone who is already very active cannot lose as fast as someone who is just starting out training. Those who do not naturally retain a lot of water cannot lose ‘weight’ as fast as water balloons. Those who have been dieting for a while cannot lose as fast as others who are just beginning a diet, etc.

No to mention that fat loss is not something that is linear. On some weeks you might lose 3-4lbs, on others (with the same diet and activity level) nothing.

165

Thib,

I’ve been loving to do 1-arm barbell power snatch and press behind the neck (or a javelin press) as a warm-up and for fun. I can only do 25 kg for some reps, but my two-handed military press is only 70 kg as well.

Is it heavy enough as a one-arm activation lift in your opinion ?

166

Say someone was training using something similar to the workout you posted in the “what i’m were doing now” thread a few months ago. I’m sure you remember but it was 3 workouts a day:
day 1 = legs,
day 2 = push
day 3 = pull
day 4 = off

1.) If following the above program, on what day would you optimally incorporate a low protein day and why? I understand why we use a low protein day, but not sure how it affects performance/recovery.

I feel like I have a good grasp on HTH and it’s principles but I still have a few questions. Mostly on ratchet sets.

2.) On ratchet sets, from the way I understand the principles you have taught me, it seems like using 2 reps as an activation and 3-6 reps as a stimulation would be more effective. Since the 2nd rep is always more powerful and we use a nearly full rest period ( 90 seconds ) it seems like using 2 reps would be a better activation set.

3.) During ratchet sets, do we want to take as little rest between activation and stimulation sets, or what. I personally just don’t get ratchet sets, they seem inferior to the other methods. So any insight you could offer would be appreciated.

4.) I don’t think I ever saw a list of all the HTH methods, so I’m going to list the easiest ones to find and see if maybe you could add some more ideas on different methods we can incorporate into our training.

Activation Clusters. - cluster sets always aiming for using as little rest as possible while still applying a maximum amount of force. Maximum of 10 seconds rest between reps and 90 seconds of rest between sets.

Dynamic Preactivation - use a load at the bottom end of the MPP spectrum and superset it with one of the HTH methods.

Max force sets - straight sets 2 - 3 reps using 80-85% of 1RM for several sets taking minimal rest between sets( 15 - 30 seconds. )

Force Spectrum Ramping - starting somewhere in between the MPP and MFP and continuously adding 10-20lbs until there is a sticking point. This one probably requires the most individual attention. There are also several different ways to ramp. Never rest longer than 90 seconds. We can also reduce the weight by 10-20% and add a maximum rep set at the end of the ramp depending on how we are feeling that day.

Capacity Ramping - done after a preactivation, goal is to work with a load at the bottom end of the MFP and increase reps from 3-5 or 6. and to see how long we can stick with that capacity. Only rest 60 seconds and don’t go overboard on the sets as it can be neurologically draining. If you kill the load shoot for a higher load next workout.

167

Hi Christian,

Another thanks for all the great info, wisdom, and time you offer out.

I have three questions:

  1. Do you see any advantage or disadvantage in using boards (1,2,3 boards, etc) for pressing movements in place of pin presses (non-clusters, pausing for a solid one count on the boards)?

  2. Would adding chains to pin presses increase overall neural activation, due to the load increase at the top of the movement? Would having two overcoming points in the ROM lead to any significant strength gains?

  3. When implementing chain work (for chest pressing movements) in your overall program, do you have a recommended amount of time you would include them, before returning to normal pressing movements?

Thanks again for your time.

168

This is a lot at once to think about, and there seems to be the beginning of an FAQ at the end! But I see some good questions there that you might want to flesh out, one at a time.

If I can make one point, I think with the capacity ramping samples he showed us, they were in alternating sets with an activating technique and the 60-sec rest came in between alternating sets.

One of your questions that I like but might be hard to find, even if it had a question mark at the end, is

"During ratchet sets, do we want to take as little rest between activation and stimulation sets, or what. "

Don’t mean offense. Just want you to get as many answers as possible.

Adam

[quote]ferox wrote:
Say someone was training using something similar to the workout you posted in the “what i’m were doing now” thread a few months ago. I’m sure you remember but it was 3 workouts a day:
day 1 = legs,
day 2 = push
day 3 = pull
day 4 = off

1.) If following the above program, on what day would you optimally incorporate a low protein day and why? I understand why we use a low protein day, but not sure how it affects performance/recovery.

I feel like I have a good grasp on HTH and it’s principles but I still have a few questions. Mostly on ratchet sets.

2.) On ratchet sets, from the way I understand the principles you have taught me, it seems like using 2 reps as an activation and 3-6 reps as a stimulation would be more effective. Since the 2nd rep is always more powerful and we use a nearly full rest period ( 90 seconds ) it seems like using 2 reps would be a better activation set.

3.) During ratchet sets, do we want to take as little rest between activation and stimulation sets, or what. I personally just don’t get ratchet sets, they seem inferior to the other methods. So any insight you could offer would be appreciated.

4.) I don’t think I ever saw a list of all the HTH methods, so I’m going to list the easiest ones to find and see if maybe you could add some more ideas on different methods we can incorporate into our training.

Activation Clusters. - cluster sets always aiming for using as little rest as possible while still applying a maximum amount of force. Maximum of 10 seconds rest between reps and 90 seconds of rest between sets.

Dynamic Preactivation - use a load at the bottom end of the MPP spectrum and superset it with one of the HTH methods.

Max force sets - straight sets 2 - 3 reps using 80-85% of 1RM for several sets taking minimal rest between sets( 15 - 30 seconds. )

Force Spectrum Ramping - starting somewhere in between the MPP and MFP and continuously adding 10-20lbs until there is a sticking point. This one probably requires the most individual attention. There are also several different ways to ramp. Never rest longer than 90 seconds. We can also reduce the weight by 10-20% and add a maximum rep set at the end of the ramp depending on how we are feeling that day.

Capacity Ramping - done after a preactivation, goal is to work with a load at the bottom end of the MFP and increase reps from 3-5 or 6. and to see how long we can stick with that capacity. Only rest 60 seconds and don’t go overboard on the sets as it can be neurologically draining. If you kill the load shoot for a higher load next workout.[/quote]

169

Thibs,
I just got a power rack and wanted to know if i could perform squats everyday without negatively affecting my main workouts. Could I use a certain percentage of my max to just improve my technique, speed up recovery and increase my mobility?

170

[quote]jonmb11 wrote:
Thibs,
I just got a power rack and wanted to know if i could perform squats everyday without negatively affecting my main workouts. Could I use a certain percentage of my max to just improve my technique, speed up recovery and increase my mobility?[/quote]

Olympic lifters around the world squat at every workout. But…

  1. They work up to this frequency OVER TIME… over many years in fact
  2. They vary the intensity greatly, rarely going for a max (well, except Bulgarians, which were banned from the last olympic because their whole team was caught using drugs)

That having been said, you could squat this frequently. But you can only have roughly 2 somewhat challenging workouts. Something like…

DAY 1 - Working up to your max force point for sets of 3 reps at roughly 85%
DAY 2 - Sets of 2-3 reps with around 70%
DAY 3 - Sets of 2-3 reps with roughly 75%
DAY 4 - Working up to your max load point for sets of 3 reps (roughly 88-90%)
DAY 5 - Sets of 2-3 reps with aroung 60%
DAY 6 - Sets of 2-3 reps with around 50%
DAY 7- off

I would VERY rarely recommend such an approach. The muscle will be able to handle it. And it is a good approach to improve technique. But you can’t do this for very long unless you are naturally built for squatting. More than 3-4 weeks and your joints will start to despise you.

171

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jonmb11 wrote:
Thibs,
I just got a power rack and wanted to know if i could perform squats everyday without negatively affecting my main workouts. Could I use a certain percentage of my max to just improve my technique, speed up recovery and increase my mobility?[/quote]

Olympic lifters around the world squat at every workout. But…

  1. They work up to this frequency OVER TIME… over many years in fact
  2. They vary the intensity greatly, rarely going for a max (well, except Bulgarians, which were banned from the last olympic because their whole team was caught using drugs)

That having been said, you could squat this frequenetly. But you can only have roughly 2 somewhat challenging workouts. Something like…

DAY 1 - Working up to your max force point for sets of 3 reps at roughly 85%
DAY 2 - Sets of 2-3 reps with around 70%
DAY 3 - Sets of 2-3 reps with roughly 75%
DAY 4 - Working up to your max load point for sets of 3 reps (roughly 88-90%)
DAY 5 - Sets of 2-3 reps with aroung 60%
DAY 6 - Sets of 2-3 reps with around 50%
DAY 7- off

I would VERY rarely recommend such an approach. The muscle will be able to handle it. And it is a good approach to improve technique. But you can’t do this for very long unless you are naturally built for squatting. More than 3-4 weeks and your joints will start to despise you.[/quote]

On anther posts you’ve said that the Greek team, as well as others which I can’t remember now, are using the bulgarian method.

You don’t see the bulg method as a viable option for a drug free lifter then?

172

[quote]JPuxHenri wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jonmb11 wrote:
Thibs,
I just got a power rack and wanted to know if i could perform squats everyday without negatively affecting my main workouts. Could I use a certain percentage of my max to just improve my technique, speed up recovery and increase my mobility?[/quote]

Olympic lifters around the world squat at every workout. But…

  1. They work up to this frequency OVER TIME… over many years in fact
  2. They vary the intensity greatly, rarely going for a max (well, except Bulgarians, which were banned from the last olympic because their whole team was caught using drugs)

That having been said, you could squat this frequenetly. But you can only have roughly 2 somewhat challenging workouts. Something like…

DAY 1 - Working up to your max force point for sets of 3 reps at roughly 85%
DAY 2 - Sets of 2-3 reps with around 70%
DAY 3 - Sets of 2-3 reps with roughly 75%
DAY 4 - Working up to your max load point for sets of 3 reps (roughly 88-90%)
DAY 5 - Sets of 2-3 reps with aroung 60%
DAY 6 - Sets of 2-3 reps with around 50%
DAY 7- off

I would VERY rarely recommend such an approach. The muscle will be able to handle it. And it is a good approach to improve technique. But you can’t do this for very long unless you are naturally built for squatting. More than 3-4 weeks and your joints will start to despise you.[/quote]

On anther posts you’ve said that the Greek team, as well as others which I can’t remember now, are using the bulgarian method.

You don’t see the bulg method as a viable option for a drug free lifter then?[/quote]

The Greek team was also disqualified, but they paid a significant penalty in exchange they had the right to send their “B” team to the games.

Most olympic lifters use a Bulgarian-like system of training almost exclusively on the competitive lifts and the front/back squat and limited other assistance work (as opposed to the system used by China, the former soviet countries and Cuba which use a lot of different assistance exercises) but not all of them use the Bulgarian approach of training to their daily max 4-6 times a week, sometimes twice a day… most use a wider variation in intensity.

The Bulgarian system works with athletes who are super gifted for olympic lifting… those who have the perfect levers for the competitive lifts, thick joints, very strong tendons and a natural capacity of the body to fight inflammation. Those who do not have these will often burn out on the system.

It is also a system that tends to give really quick results, but also that tends to lead to a rapid turnaround of athletes (i.e. their athletes normally have a short lifting career).

173

thibs, i’m 195 lb with 14.5 arms and muscular legs(28) and would like to increase my arm size without increasing my bw a lot do you recommend clean bulking or "shift " bw from lower to upper

174

What percent of your bodyweight do you roughly lift in the dip?

175

Th Superhero Program and Perfect Rep

Is the Superhero program still valid–as is-- for its intended purpose? Given the insights gained since then (expressed in the Perfect rep), what changes would you suggest other than to use explosive rep speed? Would you lower the rep ranges? Increase the load and number of sets? Fewer exercises? Would ramping replace straight sets? Or is it fine as is?

Just curious to know how you’d attack the same problem with your now greater experience.

Thanks.

176

Coach

According to the explosiveness article you just wrote a day ago;

what could one to do increase triceps’ explosiveness??? If that is his main lagging group? I recall the close-stance drop push-ups in your video but not much else comes to my mind… resistance bands maybe??

thanks

177

Coach,

Over the last 3 months my shoulder press hasn’t gone anywhere but my big 3 have been rising pretty steadily, which leads me to believe its something in my training. Genereally over the last few months Ive tried ramping, max effort, dropsets, switching to DBs, starting heavy, etc and nothing has worked.

I Was just wondering if you got anything I could try as far a shoulder workout, or any advice that would help me over this plateau?

Thanks

178

[quote]Addict3d wrote:
Coach,

Over the last 3 months my shoulder press hasn’t gone anywhere but my big 3 have been rising pretty steadily, which leads me to believe its something in my training. Genereally over the last few months Ive tried ramping, max effort, dropsets, switching to DBs, starting heavy, etc and nothing has worked.

I Was just wondering if you got anything I could try as far a shoulder workout, or any advice that would help me over this plateau?

Thanks[/quote]

Kinda hard to tell without seeing you lift. Can you give me more info? What else are you doing for shoulders? Where is your sticking point in the overhead press? Try to describe your technique, etc. The more info the easier it is for me to help.

179

Hey CT,

A question related to the IBB legs phase/video :

If our sticking point is at the bottom of our squat, would you recommend a different activation technique than the cluster of half squats (overloading the higher range of motion) ?

Thanks,
Brian

180

A typical shoulder day would look something like this:
Shoulder Pres- generally 3-4 sets of 3-5 reps, ramping up to max of 3 reps. I’ve tried standing, seated, and pin press. I’ve tried going full ROM, and just to the chin, nothing seems to make it easier

DB Military - usually do 3 sets for 3-6 reps
BB Shrugs- 3sets of 6-12
Laterals- 2/3 sets of 8-10

A pretty basic mid volumed workout, just not sure what to do from here. My form is down pretty well on the shoulder press, it use to be horrific, but over time it has improved vastly. Basically, I was just wondering if I could possibly switch my main lift from shoulder press to something else, and maybe a few other exercises, hoping to see an improvement in my shoulder press after a while?

Thanks again