There's a Lot Wrong with Britain

[lou21]

[quote]lixy wrote:
lou21 wrote:
Hmmm I’m not familiar with the legislation, international law is not my field really. I can’t support most of Britain foreign policies in the past though so I don’t see why I can’t disagree with that one.

It’s not my field either. But that convention is central to this debate.

Besides, I haven’t said you can’t disagree with it. Merely that the British government can back out of it without looking like a giant cock. The UK did push for this convention quite agressively at the time.

So yes rewriting those agreements sounds like a good idea.

I don’t disagree with that one bit.

But for that to have a chance of happening, Britain should first leave the EU. We can discuss that when it happens.

How exactly do you define European here though?

It’s not me. It’s the 1951 that granted protection to Europeans (as in, Western Europeans) only.

I would argue that…

Argue away.[/quote]

OK so let’s get this straight Britain has to leave the EU for something to happen… Show us the door please!

And to say we can’t try to change stuff we pushed for in the 50’s and 60’s is ridiculous. If that was the case we’d still have to be trying the occupy a large portion of the the planet because we pushed for it in the 19th century. Why on earth can’t we change our minds after 50 years??? How many different governments have been formed since then?

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu posted

Walls and walls of cut and paste

Again!

Ha ha ha, you’re funny. So because you can’t dispute the fact that I backed up my statements and proved you wrong you just evade my reply instead. That’s weak Esse.

No I have just got very, very bored with your cut and paste schtick.[/quote]

Really? What am I supposed to do? Do you expect me to put up with your constantly accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about without providing supporting evidence? Or does it bother you that I am better informed than you are?

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
300andabove wrote:
You lot really do love making stuff complicated.

1. I’m an English citizen born, bred and i have a vote

2. Illegal Immigrants neither are a citizen, have the right to vote or any rights AT ALL in ENGLAND

So take those 2 points add them together = English citizens get to decide WHO can come, WHO can stay and WHO gets to get the fuck out.

In 10 years we will NOT be part of the EU, i cannot WAIT for that day when they get everyone together and kick them the fuck out of MY country which MY parents, MY grandparents have helped build through PAYING TAXES.

I hate to be the one to point this out to you but your country is currently run by a Scottish bloke who reports into a family of Germans.[/quote]

Am I the only one thinking in this debate that it was the white British man who basically invaded and stole the land and the country of the true Americans, the native Indians, whose culture is basically on the verge of extinction?

What goes around comes around…

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
300andabove wrote:
You lot really do love making stuff complicated.

1. I’m an English citizen born, bred and i have a vote

2. Illegal Immigrants neither are a citizen, have the right to vote or any rights AT ALL in ENGLAND

So take those 2 points add them together = English citizens get to decide WHO can come, WHO can stay and WHO gets to get the fuck out.

In 10 years we will NOT be part of the EU, i cannot WAIT for that day when they get everyone together and kick them the fuck out of MY country which MY parents, MY grandparents have helped build through PAYING TAXES.

I hate to be the one to point this out to you but your country is currently run by a Scottish bloke who reports into a family of Germans.

Am I the only one thinking in this debate that it was the white British man who basically invaded and stole the land and the country of the true Americans, the native Indians, whose culture is basically on the verge of extinction?

What goes around comes around…

[/quote]

Ironic isn’t it

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

You are totally hypocritical on this a few posts back you are saying that you can’t live your life in fear due to the risk of a lightening strike, now you are saying all people that are not White Christians shouldn’t be allowed into the UK. Which is it?

Wow.

Either you can’t, or you refuse to, read.

That’s what I said, huh?

OK.

You, Cockadoodle Do, are a waste of time.

Cushin, you wrote that domestic terrorism is something that you can’t worry about because you can’t control it and you likened the chances as being like lightening striking on a rainy day.

However you see foreign terrorism as something that can totally be controlled by not letting them in. Well short of sealing the borders and not letting anyone in (which would destroy the economy), how do you go about controlling it? Someone doesn’t have to be an immigrant to set off a bomb, they can be a tourist or even born in the country like several of the London Tube bombers.

So please explain how you stop the terrorists getting in without wiping out the economy?[/quote]

There you go again with your silly rationalisations. Just because something may not be 100 percent effective that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used as a part of a comprehensive plan. Your rationalisation about controlling the border is one of your dumbest rationalisations so far. We should be controlling who and what comes across our border it is oe of te more useful tasks a government can perform.

It does not naturally follow that if we step up immgrations and customs enforcement that we won’t allow international trade or travel. Your suggesting that we would have to seal ourselves off completely is just another example of your hysterical hyperbole.

Just because someone doesn’t have to be an immigrant to set off a bomb it doesn’t follow that it is okay then to keep adding to the problem of home grown terrorists by letting more immigrants in. You have a real twisted sense of logic Cock.

What the London bombers do demonstrate is muslims can seem to be well assimilated then the next thing anyone knows is they are blowing up a bus or a train or a plane. Expanding the home grown population so the government has even more potential terrorists to monitor is not the way to get a handle on the problem.

Again you come out with the hyperbole. Muslims are not the only people that we trade with. So not letting them in is not going to wipe out the economy. In fact it probably would not have much effect at all.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu posted

Walls and walls of cut and paste

Again!

Ha ha ha, you’re funny. So because you can’t dispute the fact that I backed up my statements and proved you wrong you just evade my reply instead. That’s weak Esse.

No I have just got very, very bored with your cut and paste schtick.

Really? What am I supposed to do? Do you expect me to put up with your constantly accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about without providing supporting evidence? Or does it bother you that I am better informed than you are?[/quote]

OK here is a little pointer for you. Instead of cutting and pasting pages and pages of text, try to sumarise and make points. It makes your posts far more readable. Feel free to add links but posting walls of text on a forum is normally seen as a very weak argument.

Also when the walls of text don’t actually address the point that was being made it makes you look stupid. You claimed that there is no regulation on immigration in the UK. This is clearly a lie and whether the historical data records are shit or not has no bearing on the point.

[Cockney_Blue]

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

You are totally hypocritical on this a few posts back you are saying that you can’t live your life in fear due to the risk of a lightening strike, now you are saying all people that are not White Christians shouldn’t be allowed into the UK. Which is it?

Wow.

Either you can’t, or you refuse to, read.

That’s what I said, huh?

OK.

You, Cockadoodle Do, are a waste of time.

Cushin, you wrote that domestic terrorism is something that you can’t worry about because you can’t control it and you likened the chances as being like lightening striking on a rainy day.

However you see foreign terrorism as something that can totally be controlled by not letting them in. Well short of sealing the borders and not letting anyone in (which would destroy the economy), how do you go about controlling it? Someone doesn’t have to be an immigrant to set off a bomb, they can be a tourist or even born in the country like several of the London Tube bombers.

So please explain how you stop the terrorists getting in without wiping out the economy?

There you go again with your silly rationalisations. Just because something may not be 100 percent effective that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used as a part of a comprehensive plan. Your rationalisation about controlling the border is one of your dumbest rationalisations so far. We should be controlling who and what comes across our border it is oe of te more useful tasks a government can perform.

It does not naturally follow that if we step up immgrations and customs enforcement that we won’t allow international trade or travel. Your suggesting that we would have to seal ourselves off completely is just another example of your hysterical hyperbole.

Just because someone doesn’t have to be an immigrant to set off a bomb it doesn’t follow that it is okay then to keep adding to the problem of home grown terrorists by letting more immigrants in. You have a real twisted sense of logic Cock.

What the London bombers do demonstrate is muslims can seem to be well assimilated then the next thing anyone knows is they are blowing up a bus or a train or a plane. Expanding the home grown population so the government has even more potential terrorists to monitor is not the way to get a handle on the problem.

Again you come out with the hyperbole. Muslims are not the only people that we trade with. So not letting them in is not going to wipe out the economy. In fact it probably would not have much effect at all. [/quote]

OK so you are stating that if the UK and the US stopped all trade with anyone that was Islamic then there would be minimal impact on the economies of those countries.

Does anyone else want to point out to Sifu the minor problem with that argument?

[Sifu]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
300andabove wrote:
You lot really do love making stuff complicated.

1. I’m an English citizen born, bred and i have a vote

2. Illegal Immigrants neither are a citizen, have the right to vote or any rights AT ALL in ENGLAND

So take those 2 points add them together = English citizens get to decide WHO can come, WHO can stay and WHO gets to get the fuck out.

In 10 years we will NOT be part of the EU, i cannot WAIT for that day when they get everyone together and kick them the fuck out of MY country which MY parents, MY grandparents have helped build through PAYING TAXES.

I hate to be the one to point this out to you but your country is currently run by a Scottish bloke who reports into a family of Germans.

Am I the only one thinking in this debate that it was the white British man who basically invaded and stole the land and the country of the true Americans, the native Indians, whose culture is basically on the verge of extinction?

What goes around comes around…

[/quote]

You have a real bad knowledge of history it was the Americans who took most of the Indians land. The British forbidding settlement west of the Appalachian mountains was one of the causes of the American revolution. But despite that history and the fact that it happened hundreds of years before anyone alive today was born you think the British should allow themselves to be put in a situation that is at least as bad as what happened to the American Indians in order to satisfy your sense of justice. That is a bunch of bullshit.

[Alpha_F]

What is that other English speaking country?

Australia.

Yes, who are the original Australians? What language did they speak?

Yes, that’s right. I have to check my history books to figure the Americans were actually white Indians from Britain who went there to settle down.

Before the white British Empire Americans were Indians.

The British museum, by the way is full of stolen goods.

A cave of robbers.

You may want to return that as well, after you’re done cleaning “your” house.

What history teaches me is Mankind’s pathetic attempt at drawing imaginary lines to say 'this is ‘them x us’. We are all linked, whether you like it or not.
Failing to see the underlying unity of the mess we created is futile.

What goes around comes back around.

[300andabove]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

Am I the only one thinking in this debate that it was the white British man who basically invaded and stole the land and the country of the true Americans, the native Indians, whose culture is basically on the verge of extinction?

What goes around comes around…

[/quote]

???

Er might want to relook at the history there

We had little or nothing to do with the marauding of Indian territory !

And no i got riled as that little piss ant Cockney seems to think it’s OK for us to let in any Achmed the Dead Terroist types and for us to say anything about it is RACIST.

Walk down Manchester these days not the rich parts where i abide these days and you have some looney bin clerics whose prophesy for England is a load of terrorist suicide bombings ! But when we take issue and try to kick them out we are RACIST.

As i said before i have and will continue to vote for the BNP, Labor is about as helpfull to English people as cancer and the Tories couldn’t formulate a good idea if someone gave them one.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]300andabove wrote:
Alpha F wrote:

Am I the only one thinking in this debate that it was the white British man who basically invaded and stole the land and the country of the true Americans, the native Indians, whose culture is basically on the verge of extinction?

What goes around comes around…

???

Er might want to relook at the history there

We had little or nothing to do with the marauding of Indian territory !

And no i got riled as that little piss ant Cockney seems to think it’s OK for us to let in any Achmed the Dead Terroist types and for us to say anything about it is RACIST.

Walk down Manchester these days not the rich parts where i abide these days and you have some looney bin clerics whose prophesy for England is a load of terrorist suicide bombings ! But when we take issue and try to kick them out we are RACIST.

As i said before i have and will continue to vote for the BNP, Labor is about as helpfull to English people as cancer and the Tories couldn’t formulate a good idea if someone gave them one.

[/quote]

I do see your point and you are correct in where you are coming from. However, this is not new.
It is a vicious circle.

The circle of the Globe.

If not the English there will be somebody else.

[Alpha_F]

I stopped going to Hyde Park.
Last time I went there to enjoy the sun I was surrounded by women dressed from head to toe in black cloth - only the eyes showing.

I did not feel I was in England.

I do find it disrespectful of people who immigrate and impose their extreme ways and refuse to at least blend in with the locals.

I am not racist but even I resented those women.

However, I don’t have a solution.

When I was in Brazil, British Petroleum had an overwhelming presence in my country.

So did many other American and British companies.

“My country” never felt mine. It was owned by America and Britain. We all knew that.

There was talk of an official take over of Brazilian autonomy by the USA.

I never felt Brazil was ‘mine’ so I left.

Now I am going back.

What goes around comes around…lol!

: D

I think we should all immigrate more.

Si mi casa es su casa. Su casa es mi casa, non?

Tit for tat.

Instead of approaching it through war let’s just irritate the hell out of each other by insidious penetration.

Let’s party in each others house.

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
300andabove wrote:
You lot really do love making stuff complicated.

1. I’m an English citizen born, bred and i have a vote

2. Illegal Immigrants neither are a citizen, have the right to vote or any rights AT ALL in ENGLAND

So take those 2 points add them together = English citizens get to decide WHO can come, WHO can stay and WHO gets to get the fuck out.

In 10 years we will NOT be part of the EU, i cannot WAIT for that day when they get everyone together and kick them the fuck out of MY country which MY parents, MY grandparents have helped build through PAYING TAXES.

I hate to be the one to point this out to you but your country is currently run by a Scottish bloke who reports into a family of Germans.

Am I the only one thinking in this debate that it was the white British man who basically invaded and stole the land and the country of the true Americans, the native Indians, whose culture is basically on the verge of extinction?

What goes around comes around…

Ironic isn’t it[/quote]

Not as ironic as the fact that the Pilgrims in Plymouth were like babes in the woods when they first landed in America. They were on the verge of dying from starvation when some kind hearted Indians took pitty on them and showed them how to find food. Witout the help of the Indans the Plymouth colony would have failed and the Indains would have been left alone.

The same thing is happening today in Britain. The British are helping to feed and clothe people who are out to displace them from their homeland without thinking about what they are setting themselves up for.

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu posted

Walls and walls of cut and paste

Again!

Ha ha ha, you’re funny. So because you can’t dispute the fact that I backed up my statements and proved you wrong you just evade my reply instead. That’s weak Esse.

No I have just got very, very bored with your cut and paste schtick.

Really? What am I supposed to do? Do you expect me to put up with your constantly accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about without providing supporting evidence? Or does it bother you that I am better informed than you are?

OK here is a little pointer for you. Instead of cutting and pasting pages and pages of text, try to sumarise and make points. It makes your posts far more readable. Feel free to add links but posting walls of text on a forum is normally seen as a very weak argument. [/quote]

Here is a pointer for you. Earlier in this thread when I posted a snippet from an article you didn’t bother to follow the link and read the rest of the article. Then you made comments based solely upon the snippet that were contradicted by the full article. So I then had to come back and reargue with you and rerefference the article.

If there is pertinent information that will prevent you from weasling out and feigning ignorance .I am posting it. Cornering you is not weakness.

[quote]
Also when the walls of text don’t actually address the point that was being made it makes you look stupid. You claimed that there is no regulation on immigration in the UK. This is clearly a lie and whether the historical data records are shit or not has no bearing on the point. [/quote]

A series of articles that cover several years, that demonstrate increasing evidence that the government has not kept an accurate accounting of all the immigrants that it has let in. Combine that with the EU policy of open borders and what you get is they are not controlling immigration.

How can they control an event when they have no idea as to what is going on?

[Sifu]

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

You are totally hypocritical on this a few posts back you are saying that you can’t live your life in fear due to the risk of a lightening strike, now you are saying all people that are not White Christians shouldn’t be allowed into the UK. Which is it?

Wow.

Either you can’t, or you refuse to, read.

That’s what I said, huh?

OK.

You, Cockadoodle Do, are a waste of time.

Cushin, you wrote that domestic terrorism is something that you can’t worry about because you can’t control it and you likened the chances as being like lightening striking on a rainy day.

However you see foreign terrorism as something that can totally be controlled by not letting them in. Well short of sealing the borders and not letting anyone in (which would destroy the economy), how do you go about controlling it? Someone doesn’t have to be an immigrant to set off a bomb, they can be a tourist or even born in the country like several of the London Tube bombers.

So please explain how you stop the terrorists getting in without wiping out the economy?

There you go again with your silly rationalisations. Just because something may not be 100 percent effective that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used as a part of a comprehensive plan. Your rationalisation about controlling the border is one of your dumbest rationalisations so far. We should be controlling who and what comes across our border it is oe of te more useful tasks a government can perform.

It does not naturally follow that if we step up immgrations and customs enforcement that we won’t allow international trade or travel. Your suggesting that we would have to seal ourselves off completely is just another example of your hysterical hyperbole.

Just because someone doesn’t have to be an immigrant to set off a bomb it doesn’t follow that it is okay then to keep adding to the problem of home grown terrorists by letting more immigrants in. You have a real twisted sense of logic Cock.

What the London bombers do demonstrate is muslims can seem to be well assimilated then the next thing anyone knows is they are blowing up a bus or a train or a plane. Expanding the home grown population so the government has even more potential terrorists to monitor is not the way to get a handle on the problem.

Again you come out with the hyperbole. Muslims are not the only people that we trade with. So not letting them in is not going to wipe out the economy. In fact it probably would not have much effect at all.

OK so you are stating that if the UK and the US stopped all trade with anyone that was Islamic then there would be minimal impact on the economies of those countries. [/quote]

No I am not stating that. Again you are twisting words around and exagerrating. What is your problem? What I meant is it would not have much of an affect on our economy. Besides you are the one who diverted the arguement into one of trade. Immigration and trade are not the same thing. If we have to go through a little pain and discomfort to be safe so be it. The muslim world needs us more than we need them.

[quote]
Does anyone else want to point out to Sifu the minor problem with that argument? [/quote]

Why don’t you point out the problem so I can make you look silly?

[Sifu]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
What is that other English speaking country?

Australia.

Yes, who are the original Australians? What language did they speak?

Yes, that’s right. I have to check my history books to figure the Americans were actually white Indians from Britain who went there to settle down.

Before the white British Empire Americans were Indians.

The British museum, by the way is full of stolen goods.

A cave of robbers.

You may want to return that as well, after you’re done cleaning “your” house.

What history teaches me is Mankind’s pathetic attempt at drawing imaginary lines to say 'this is ‘them x us’. We are all linked, whether you like it or not.
Failing to see the underlying unity of the mess we created is futile.

What goes around comes back around.[/quote]

What an idealistic load of anarchist crap that post was. You can talk all you bullshit about British history that you want, but it still won’t change a simple fact of life. While making amends can be a nice thing to do, doing it in such a way that you or someone else is harmed is not.

What psychology teaches us is that boundaries crucially important to safe and healthy interactions with other people. People who do not set healthy boundaries for themselves end up getting walked over, taken advantage of and miserable. What we also learn is that people who do not respect other peoples boundaries are dangerous.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

The same thing is happening today in Britain. The British are helping to feed and clothe people who are out to displace them from their homeland without thinking about what they are setting themselves up for. [/quote]

This is true. Except that I question the part ‘without thinking what they are setting themselves up for’.

How could they not know the countless of people who are not genuine in their applications? They must know. So what is their hidden agenda in allowing this to happen? Why is ‘our’ Government devaluing it’s own people, it’s own currency ? ( I am a citizen also, and no, I did not abuse the system by getting married to obtain my passport though I had countless of opportunities and offers by British men to do so ).

There must be something in it for a government to betray its own people.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Sifu wrote:

What an idealistic load of anarchist crap that post was. You can talk all you bullshit about British history that you want, but it still won’t change a simple fact of life. While making amends can be a nice thing to do, doing it in such a way that you or someone else is harmed is not. [/quote]

How classy of you.
I wasn’t talking of making amends.

[quote]

What psychology teaches us is that boundaries crucially important to safe and healthy interactions with other people. People who do not set healthy boundaries for themselves end up getting walked over, taken advantage of and miserable. What we also learn is that people who do not respect other peoples boundaries are dangerous. [/quote]

Try using your reading and comprehension next time before you jump into judgment.

Cockney Blue does have a point with your cut and paste.
Maybe you should just stick to that.

[Sifu]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Sifu wrote:

The same thing is happening today in Britain. The British are helping to feed and clothe people who are out to displace them from their homeland without thinking about what they are setting themselves up for.

This is true. Except that I question the part ‘without thinking what they are setting themselves up for’. [/quote]

That may seem like an exagerrattion however think about what happens over there when someone does think and asks questions about what is happening, such as “why did we need to take in millions of immigrants when we have millions of people on the dole”? There are people who will immediately attack them and call them a racist a xenophobe instead of thinking about an intelligent answer to the question.

How could they not know the countless of people who are not genuine in their applications? They must know. So what is their hidden agenda in allowing this to happen? Why is ‘our’ Government devaluing it’s own people, it’s own currency ? ( I am a citizen also, and no, I did not abuse the system by getting married to obtain my passport though I had countless of opportunities and offers by British men to do so ).

There must be something in it for a government to betray its own people.

First you need to consider that individual politicians are owned by big money interests who want their agenda pursued. It is real easy to forget about the best interests of the people when people get bought off.

Next you need to consider that the large ethnic communities that have been created by mass immigration open up electoral opportunities. ie It allows for techniques like race baiting to now be used. This is why Labour hasn’t cared about verifying asylum claims, all they want to do is get as many racially different people in as they can now while they have the chance, so that in the future it will be a very effective card for them to play.

What it comes down to is the old Roman strategy of divide and conquer.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Alpha F wrote:
Sifu wrote:

The same thing is happening today in Britain. The British are helping to feed and clothe people who are out to displace them from their homeland without thinking about what they are setting themselves up for.

This is true. Except that I question the part ‘without thinking what they are setting themselves up for’.

That may seem like an exagerrattion however think about what happens over there when someone does think and asks questions about what is happening, such as “why did we need to take in millions of immigrants when we have millions of people on the dole”? There are people who will immediately attack them and call them a racist a xenophobe instead of thinking about an intelligent answer to the question.

How could they not know the countless of people who are not genuine in their applications? They must know. So what is their hidden agenda in allowing this to happen? Why is ‘our’ Government devaluing it’s own people, it’s own currency ? ( I am a citizen also, and no, I did not abuse the system by getting married to obtain my passport though I had countless of opportunities and offers by British men to do so ).

There must be something in it for a government to betray its own people.

First you need to consider that individual politicians are owned by big money interests who want their agenda pursued. It is real easy to forget about the best interests of the people when people get bought off.

Next you need to consider that the large ethnic communities that have been created by mass immigration open up electoral opportunities. ie It allows for techniques like race baiting to now be used. This is why Labour hasn’t cared about verifying asylum claims, all they want to do is get as many racially different people in as they can now while they have the chance, so that in the future it will be a very effective card for them to play.

What it comes down to is the old Roman strategy of divide and conquer.

[/quote]

I agree completely.

Then why hate the immigrants? Even the destructive, disrespectful ones ( of course, that is not on ). From what are you saying they are just mere tools. They are being used.