[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu wrote:
The first problem is if those are official statistics, they are not accurate. Several years ago Labour abandoned all immigration controls. Since there no longer are any controls noone is even counting. So nobody knows exactly how many have come in since then. The only thing that anyone can agree on is that the official numbers are the lowest guess and that the true numbers are much higher.
What total rubbish, of course there are still controls and records kept. Having gone through the British Immigration process for my wife a couple of years ago I would guess I know a little bit more about it than you do.
You really need to stop making these huge sweeping statements that can be clearly shown to be BS. It doesn’t help your argument at all. [/quote]
You do not know what the hell you are talking about. If you would stop getting your Koolaid out of the Guardian and read a real newspaper like the Torygraph you would know what is going on over there. Just last year in April a house of lords report on immigration statistics caused a big scandal that was in a lot of the papers back in March and April of 2008.The report stated that the government did not know how many immigrants had come into the country because it had not bothered to keep count of them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/1583384/Poor-immigration-data-hindering-economy.html
Poor immigration data ‘hindering economy’
By Rosa Prince and Robert Winnett
Published: 12:01AM BST 31 Mar 2008
Britain’s economy and public services are being put at risk by the failure of the Government to keep track of the number of immigrants, a House of Lords report will warn tomorrow.
Key decisions on interest rates and the allocation of more than £100 billion of public money are being severely hampered by the “serious inadequacy” of basic data on those entering the country to work and study, it is expected to say.
The warning will be sounded after an eight-month inquiry into immigration by the Lords’ economic affairs committee, which has heard evidence from ministers, officials, academics, business leaders and trade unions.
Its report is regarded as the first comprehensive and authoritative analysis of the economic impact of immigration to the United Kingdom.
The worst criticism is reserved for the poor statistics kept on the number of immigrants and emigrants, which has serious ramifications.
The Lords found that the data was based on small, outdated surveys described repeatedly in the report as “seriously inadequate”, “intrinsically unsatisfactory”, “unreliable” and “incomplete”.
The report is understood to say: "There are significant unknowns and uncertainties in the existing data on immigration and immigrants in the UK…
“The gaps in migration data create significant difficulties for the analysis and public debate of immigration, the conduct of monetary policy, the provision of public services and a wide range of other public policies.”
The report will disclose that the committee was told by Mervyn King, the Governor of the Bank of England, that “we just do not know how big the population of the United Kingdom is”.
Changes in population are essential to the Bank when setting interest rates as they affect wages, prices and other key economic indicators.
Likewise, if it is not known how many people are living in the UK it is impossible to correctly assess how much needs to be spent on services such as health and education to meet people’s needs.
One peer on the committee told the Telegraph: “The more we looked at the flawed statistics, the more we felt the Government is flying blind on immigration.”
The committee will conclude that “the economic benefits of net immigration to the resident population are small and close to zero in the long run”. It also questions whether the introduction of a new points-based system for immigration will improve the situation.
But the Government will challenge these findings. Liam Byrne, the Border and Immigration Minister, said: "We’re crystal clear that we need to take into account the wider impacts of migration and that is why for the first time ever we’ve set up an independent committee of front line public servants to tell us what those impacts are, but there’s no escaping the fact that the business community is telling us carefully controlled migration is good for the economy.
“The best studies available show migrants pay in more than they take out, with migration contributing £6bn to our national output in 2006.”
The Lords inquiry will call on ministers to “improve radically the present entirely inadequate migration statistics”.
Currently, estimates on emigration are based on an annual poll of fewer than 1,000 migrants as they leave the UK, which the peers will describe as “intrinsically unsatisfactory”. Information on immigrants is only recorded for those who say they intend to stay for more than a year.
The Labour Force survey, which studies immigrants in the workforce, also excludes short-term migrants and those living in communal establishments such as hostels.
The conclusions will be welcomed by council leaders who have repeatedly complained that inadequate information about population was used to distribute public money, leaving areas with high numbers of immigrants with funding shortfalls.
Figures released last year showed that immigration is currently fuelling the biggest rise in Britain’s population for almost 50 years.
The Government is currently predicting that the population will rise by about 190,000 people a year.
By 2028, the population will be more than 70 million and reach 71 million by 2031, the ONS predicted. Statisticians said immigration would be responsible for at least 70 per cent of the rise over the next 20 years.
The ONS has told the Lords committee that it is committed to improving migration data. It is also under pressure to improve procedures for the 2011 census following criticism about the method of counting the population - particularly immigrants - in the last census.
Here is another report from 2006.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1533283/Expert-warns-that-migration-figures-are-in-a-muddle.html
Expert warns that migration figures are in a muddle
No one is counting how many migrants come to Britain, how long they stay, or how many are here illegally, says a former Whitehall statistician and author of a study.
Official immigration figures give an “incomplete picture”, according to Denis Allnutt, in his report, “Review of Home Office Publications of Control of Immigration Statistics”, published by the Home Office.
The findings emerged after Mervyn King, the Governor of the Bank of England, told a House of Lords committee that his efforts to steer the economy were being hampered by a lack of reliable population figures.
According to Mr Allnutt: “There are examples of statistics being too inaccurate to publish, and the production of other statistics being delayed.”
Other aspects of border control which Mr Allnutt says go unmeasured include the number of failed asylum-seekers who remain in the UK, the fate of those deported, the whereabouts of foreign national prisoners, and the amount councils spend on supporting refugees.
The criticisms will fuel demands for the publication of official statistics to be taken out of the control of politicians and handed to an independent figure.
The Office for National Statistics (ONS) announced last week that 565,000 foreigners arrived to live in Britain last year, while 380,000 British citizens left to live abroad. However, the 565,000 was widely seen as an underestimate.
The figures came simply from an international passenger survey, which involves questioning selected passengers at airports, sea ports and the Channel Tunnel.
Mr King said that he needed more accurate figures on the labour market in order to assess inflationary pressure when setting interest rates.
He told peers: “We need to know how big the population is and how large the number of immigrant workers is in order to help us form a judgment about the pressure of demand on capacity.”
In particular, he complained about the 2001 census, which may have missed a million people, and the ONS’s international passenger survey, which he said was “just not adequate”.
Critics claim that the Home Office has little incentive to publish more detailed statistics about the numbers of illegal migrants arriving or staying in Britain, when the findings would bring political embarrassment for ministers.
The Government has promised to restore embarkation controls, but the process of counting everyone entering and leaving the UK will not begin until 2014. Last year, the Home Office gave its first estimate for the number of illegal immigrants living in Britain, putting the figure at between 310,000 and 570,000.
Here is one from 2005. I didn’t paste all of this one. But there is more to it and it does undermine you even further.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1493122/Blair-accused-on-migrants.html
Blair accused on migrants
By Philip Johnston, Home Affairs Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 01 Jul 2005
Tony Blair was accused last night of “misleading the country” over immigration during the general election as the Home Office admitted for the first time that half a million illegal immigrants may be living in Britain.
Tories charged the Prime Minister with covering up the figure when controversy about the issue raged only a few weeks ago.
Then, Mr Blair said it was impossible to put a figure on the number of illegal immigrants - failed asylum seekers who have stayed on, visitors who have overstayed and clandestine entrants.
When an independent academic, Prof John Salt, of the Migration Research Unit at University College, London, suggested before polling day the true figure could be about 500,000 - equivalent to the population of Sheffield - he was shot down by ministers.
One called this “wildly inaccurate” and denied there were any official estimates.
But now it is clear that Prof Salt was helping the Home Office in its research and had contributed to earlier drafts of yesterday’s report, which estimates the unauthorised migrant population at between 310,000 and 570,000.
The Home Office said the central estimate for the number of illegal immigrants was 430,000, or 0.7 per cent of the total population.
The figure does not include up to 772,000 asylum seekers whose applications are being processed or who have launched an appeal.
[quote]
So the overall effect of your numbers on the demographics of Britain is over 700,000 of the educated, skilled, productive, cream of the white population gone and over a million third worlders either taking their place or competing with the lower class whites who don’t have the job skills to emigrate.
And again with the racist sentiments. Why would the educated, skilled, productive people in the UK be only from the white skinned members? [/quote]
Are you really that clueless? The English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, just happen to be white people. They are the ones who are getting out. The whole reason why a lot of them are able to get into Australia or New Zealand easily is because they are white and because they have college education and or job skills.
Britain’s white middle class is being driven out and replaced with immigrants who have no reason to identify with the lower class whites who don’t have the education or job skills to get out. The percentage of what is left of the whites is increasingly just the yabos and welfare scroungers.
The White people of Britain are being socially engineered into an undesirable lower caste group who will be nothing but a burden to the rest of society. For saying this I am no more racist than Bill Cosby is when he speaks out about problems in the African American community.
[quote]
The issue of British born muslims is something that they need to take very seriously and they need to start right now. Just because they are born there it does not mean that they are somehow magically going to throw off their culture and become like the British. One of the traditional muslim strategies for taking over a place is outbreeding their neighbors. That is why the British need to get a handle on the problem now.
Whether or not they are part of the people isn’t going to be the issue of a persons status. The way things are going right now it is going to be the ethnic white British who are going to end up being the lower caste. Already now we hear comments from politicians about how “lazy” or lacking in morals the British are compared to the immigrants.
Why don’t you just answer the question?
The problem though is there have been a lot of legal immigrants who should not have been let in either. Whether or not it is their fault that Labour let them in isn’t what’s important. What is important is Labour has engaged in a massive social engineering project to turn the white British people into nothing but alcoholic white trash living on council estates. Which itself will only last until the country becomes a sharia state. Then what is left of the British will be repeatedly flogged for drinking alcohol and the women will all be stoned to death for adultry.
Again with the histrionics. [/quote]
Not at all. In muslim countries people caught drinking alcohol are flogged and women accused of adultry are stoned to death or in Iran they are hung. That is sharia law. There are muslims in Britain who openly state that they want to implement sharia law in Britain and the government is helping them. How is it histrionics to point that out when it’s true?