The World Wants Obama

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]JohnnyBlaze wrote:

From what I’ve seen, a plan for free universal health care for all Americans in place of the current user pays system, is one of the changes that he proposes to put in place. [/quote]

So a socialized form of health care? The kind even China is moving away from.

Well lets see what else you’ve got.[quote]

As for the other changes – as long as he can see and analyze what is wrong with the current situations in your country, and plan and implement real working solutions, that is what I’m talking about. America has many problems and if even a few of the big ones can be solved, then a great difference will already have been made. That is change.[/quote]

So… nothing else then.

Come on, you were saying he is going to solve the worlds problems, but all you came up with is socialism. The one form of government that has failed everywhere.

You sounded like you had a complete list of reasons to support Obama, but seem to be coming up short here.

Anyway I said:

Can you tell me exactly how he is going to accomplish the goals you just spoke of?

Your response:[quote]

With all the enormous wealth, resources and intelligence of the USA available at his disposal.[/quote]

Wow. And McCain can’t do that?

Honestly all I am trying to do here is get to the meat of the situation. You acted like this guy was going to save the world, but can’t really come up with anything other then a form of socialism. (Socialism, the wonderful idea that has failed everywhere it has been tried.)

You can say anyone is going to look at the issues and solve the problems. If you are going to support his plan, don’t you think you should find out what that plan is?

102

[quote]The Mage wrote:

Honestly all I am trying to do here is get to the meat of the situation. You acted like this guy was going to save the world, but can’t really come up with anything other then a form of socialism. (Socialism, the wonderful idea that has failed everywhere it has been tried.)

You can say anyone is going to look at the issues and solve the problems. If you are going to support his plan, don’t you think you should find out what that plan is?[/quote]

This is typical of Johhny Blaze. He rambles on, thinking he is saying something, but says nothing.

He’s an angry little man who has yet to stand up for anything he supposedly believes in.

He can’t even intelligently articulate his reasons for disliking Bush.

103

Hey Mage, are you going to tell rainjack that this is a forum for debate and not insulting people?

104

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:

My true wish would be that more nations do the things we’ve done to be successful instead of sniveling and trying to reduce us to their level.

Let Iran have nuclear weapons then. The biggest gun wins, let them have the big guns. It’s your true wish.

You really are this simple aren’t you?

A powerful military and unconventional weapons arsenal are a portion of the benefits of the things we’ve done to be successful, not the things themselves. It may make your ears smoke thinking about that one, but try it out.

I knew I should never have let myself get involved in this forum.

But you said he with the biggest gun wins, and might makes right. How can Iran ever win(i.e. be successful) or right without the same weapons aresenal?

Just in case you dimwits can’t understand, I’m not advocating everyone getting nuclear weapons, just pointing out how silly your posts are.

Anyway, you’ve avoided thecentral issue here which is that you place less emphasis on human life when it’s not American.

[/quote]

it looks like I’m gonna have to spell this out for you.

When I say he with the biggest gun wins and might makes right I’m saying nothing whatever regarding the actual “rightness” of he with the biggest gun. Only that the most powerful are able to impose their will (or not, depending on their choice) and in practice their version of “right” is in the ascendancy.

If Hitler had had his way the thousand year Reich would today have the biggest gun and by extension determine what is “right” for the rest of the world.

Our society has been successful because our form of government unleashed the creativity and ambition of the individual. Our military might, of which an unconventional arsenal is only part, is a positive side effect of that success, not success itself.

Countries like Iran that stifle the creativity and ambition of the individual are unsuccessful by definition and produce tyrannical governments in whose hands unconventional weapons cannot be trusted. That is determined by us who have the biggest gun and our allies who’s guns are supposed to make ours even bigger. Having that might, we determine that is right and the rest of the world should be very thankful we do unless they can envision a better world where somebody else had the biggest gun.

105

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
One point…I don’t give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks They won’t have to live with the cocksucker.

Oh no?

Think again professor.

No really, I don’t give a fuck. I don’t care how many times I think about it, I still won’t give a fuck.

And you probably shouldn’t.

My reply was about not having “to live with the cocksucker”. Because, in case you missed it, whatever “cocksucker” gets into the White House ends up dropping bodies and blowing innocent people to bits (with more or less restraint). What you have to deal with (how much taxes you’ll pay, how many hours they can detain you with the PATRIOT ACT, how many immigrants will be allowed in, etc.) is pretty low on the inconvenience scale compared to what “the rest of the world” has to deal with.

The “think again” was not the sarcastic part. It was dead serious![/quote]

I notice the Eurosnobs didn’t mind the innocents killed in WWII to save their cowering asses. I care about third world opinions as much as I care about the opinions of the welfare class in America who are also primarily interested in the community organizer for president.

106

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Hey Mage, are you going to tell rainjack that this is a forum for debate and not insulting people?[/quote]

Why don’t yo tell me?

I guess you’d rather run and tattle.

107

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
I’m watching them read the names of the 9/11 victims right now.

FUCK EVERYONE ELSE.

And BTW - they have people from all over the world reading the names - so, I guess not everyone hates us. There are still decent people left in the world that don’t fall into line with the U.S. hating assholes out there.

Lixy, you are the worst piece of shit I think I’ve ever seen. I seriously hope you fucking die. [/quote]

Watch out! You may get put on his “ignore list”…LOL!

108

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Hey Mage, are you going to tell rainjack that this is a forum for debate and not insulting people?[/quote]

My statement was in response to a specific comment. Was general and referenced nobody.

Your statement (disguised as a question,) is a way to avoid talking about the issues, and “poke the bear”.

109

Well you won’t face the issue which is that certain Americans regard for human life is dependant on where they are from.

110

Futhermore, as your statement was in response to a specific comment(mine), I would say it wasn’t general, but directed at me. You are trying to drag this into a pointless arguement about peripheral issues.

111

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Well you won’t face the issue which is that certain Americans regard for human life is dependant on where they are from.[/quote]

To an extent you are correct, but that is the case with all nations and is a stark reality in a world where self preservation is of any concern at all.

Forced to choose would you rather have bombs fall on your country or somebody else,s?

Given the opportunity would you unintentionally and regretfully kill non combatants abroad if you believed it was an unavoidable consequence of eliminating a credible threat to YOUR security at home.

In short, ALL people, American or not, regard the lives of international strangers or strangers in general as less personally affecting than those close to them.

Did you shed any tears when the planes hit our buildings? I doubt it and hold that as no diminution of the quality of your character. If members of your family were in them at the time I expect there would have been a different response as well there should have been.

That principle all the way up to the geo-political arena is an intrinsic symptom of the human condition suffered more or less by all.

113

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Futhermore, as your statement was in response to a specific comment(mine), I would say it wasn’t general, but directed at me. You are trying to drag this into a pointless arguement about peripheral issues.[/quote]

You said this forum was specifically for calling people stupid, so I obliged.

(Obviously you got neither the overt joke, nor the underlying message.)

You want to discuss the issues, then lets discuss the issues, something I have yet to see you do. Don’t act like I am bringing down the discussion when you started in the gutter.

114

Mage, you had a go at me for insulting people.

You did not have a go at rainjack for insulting people.

Now you’re making ridiculous statements when I have already invited you to comment on the crux of the matter.

You talk poo.

115

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Mage, you had a go at me for insulting people. [/quote]

Not really. It was more that you were acting like people were inferior to you if they did not think like you, yet never once gave any reason why.[quote]

You did not have a go at rainjack for insulting people.[/quote]

And I wasn’t talking to RJ, I was talking to you. I have commented about RJ before, but his actions seem more like an inability to suffer fools.

And the more I attempt to discuss this stuff with people, I start to see his point.

But as crude as he is, he does debate. And unlike you he doesn’t sit around whining about how unfair people are to him.

Also if people pay attention, they will notice that this is upsetting you. A kind of can dish it out but can’t take it attitude. But if you pay attention to RJ, he lives for that fight.

When he is really getting into a fight, you can almost hear him cum.[quote]

Now you’re making ridiculous statements when I have already invited you to comment on the crux of the matter.[/quote]

You have? Please restate what you wanted me to comment on and I will. But you really need to make it a little more clear, because I don’t ever remember this.[quote]

You talk poo.[/quote]

Uh… yeah, ok.

116

[quote]cremaster wrote:

Actually, Lixy, from that list:

Canada
Germany
Italy
Mexico
Philippines

have been bombed/invaded by the US.
Not sure about some of the others.

[/quote]

Any idea why we bombed/invaded Germany, Italy and the Philipines? Or don’t they teach history anymore?

117

[quote]AndyG wrote:
You talk poo.[/quote]

Yep, you must be a Brit.

118

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Hey Mage, are you going to tell rainjack that this is a forum for debate and not insulting people?[/quote]

Don’t worry - we all get used to rainjack. I used to take him seriously but now I see the humorous side to him insulting people.

119

[quote]rainjack wrote:
The Mage wrote:

Honestly all I am trying to do here is get to the meat of the situation. You acted like this guy was going to save the world, but can’t really come up with anything other then a form of socialism. (Socialism, the wonderful idea that has failed everywhere it has been tried.)

You can say anyone is going to look at the issues and solve the problems. If you are going to support his plan, don’t you think you should find out what that plan is?

This is typical of Johhny Blaze. He rambles on, thinking he is saying something, but says nothing.

He’s an angry little man who has yet to stand up for anything he supposedly believes in.

He can’t even intelligently articulate his reasons for disliking Bush.

[/quote]

Look who’s the angry one.

Well I used to be angry a lot, but now I’m learning to put things into better perspective.

As for disliking Bush, you’re more intelligent and articulate than he is - I’ve seen him fuck up countless times - yet you accept him as your leader?

120

[quote]The Mage wrote:
So a socialized form of health care? The kind even China is moving away from.
[/quote]

Socialized? Who ever said anything about socialism? What’s China got to do with it? The government funded health care system works here in Australia, and it’s been working for a long time. I think Ireland has something similar too. It’s just about a government looking after the health of its people. I’m not talking about “isms” or “ized” forms of anything, it’s simple. Utilize some of those tax resources towards HEALTH instead of funding the machine of war.

It’s easy to label and put things into neat little round holes. My understanding of socialism is that it failed because it became just another control system. In Russia, in China, in all those other places, it was a tool for the deprivation of liberty.

Implementing a universal free health insurance plan does not mean your whole government will become socialist. But anyway that was just one example of a good idea Obama was proposing to do and is not the focal point of what I was saying.

…

Not that McCain can’t do that, but my impression is that he’s less INCLINED towards doing that.

I don’t think Obama will save the world, but I do think a good leader for the USA will have a tremendous influence upon it.

Well what’s your understanding of his plan?