As for disliking Bush, you’re more intelligent and articulate than he is - I’ve seen him fuck up countless times - yet you accept him as your leader?[/quote]
What is fascinating is that Bush was concidered an excellent speaker before he became president.
I listened to an expert who actually studied “flubs” and was discussing why everybody makes these little verbal mistakes now and then. At one point somebody brought up Bush, and his problems. This person mentioned that Bush actually does not make any more verbal mistakes then the average person does.
But when the media is always listening to everything you say day after day, it is easy for them to find those mistakes.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
I listened to an expert who actually studied “flubs” and was discussing why everybody makes these little verbal mistakes now and then. At one point somebody brought up Bush, and his problems. This person mentioned that Bush actually does not make any more verbal mistakes then the average person does.
But when the media is always listening to everything you say day after day, it is easy for them to find those mistakes.[/quote]
[quote]lixy wrote:
The Mage wrote:
I listened to an expert who actually studied “flubs” and was discussing why everybody makes these little verbal mistakes now and then. At one point somebody brought up Bush, and his problems. This person mentioned that Bush actually does not make any more verbal mistakes then the average person does.
But when the media is always listening to everything you say day after day, it is easy for them to find those mistakes.
An “expert”, ey?
Grow up.[/quote]
You know what they say about experts - An “ex” is a has-been and “spurt” is a drip under pressure
I don’t think it fits, sorry. But I assume I have different ideas and perceptions about debt. If we were to pull out of Iraq, that would have severely diminished our political leverage. In fact it has been weakened just because of all the people saying pull out.
They said they will win because, “America has no stomach for war.” People did their best to prove them right.[/quote]
I’ll make my point more plainly. We have lessened our ability to fight a war because we are already engaging a large portion of our force. This make other nations fear our military less and thus lessens our political leverage thus increasing our dependence on their goodwill.
We demonstrated clearly with the Iraq war that we can out class a large and militant nation militarily with minimal damage to us and total destruction to their military and government. We did this with not only incredible ease but also swiftness. Our ability to do this to another nation is lessened by our “debt” of being committed in Iraq. Our non allies might hope to exploit this.
You are right that we lose political leverage in Iraq from a total withdrawal but a large withdrawal would strengthen our potential power at large. It may embolden terrorist to some extent if we withdrew en mass from Iraq but if we leave a reasonably smaller but potent force we could very easily enact “regime change” again if a terrorist gains control.
[quote]Actually there is a change brewing. It is still small, but significant, and it is gaining converts every day. (Almost sounds like a cult.) I keep running into people who are not only getting out of debt, but considering it a terrible way to live.
As these people have been getting out of debt, they are showing others the benefits, and others are joining in. (Damn, it is a cult.) The point is, there is a change building, I am seeing it.[/quote]
Despite your wishful thinking based on your feelings a few personal anecdotes won’t reverse global mega trends.
Government and personal debt is growing larger and other nations are becoming increasingly competitive with the US on every front of industry and finance. We import too much energy and other goods. We do this because other nations are enjoying the fruits of taking our wealth and loaning us money in order to continue to do so.
Perhaps you and you personal sphere are in a pocket that will be more resistant to financial insolvency. Perhaps you have even shifted your investments and are poised to profit. Whatever the case the problem remains is that we live in a society with a mega government and many members of the society as well as our government are closer to financial insolvency than any sensible entity should want to be. Should a crisis occur even the wise and prudent will feel it although not very much if you are wealthy, savy at investing, and lets not forget ruthless towards the suffering of your ill fated neighbors.
[quote]The government is the big impediment to the market. They are the ones who set up the system, making it easier for the crooks to manipulate. They are the ones standing in the way of the US producing more energy. They stop the drilling, they stop the extraction of coal, they eliminated New-Q-Ler development in this country, putting us into the exact bind we are in.
Now they act like they are protecting the little guy when in fact they are bailing out the ones who screwed up.[/quote]
I’m sorry but it is not all the governments fault that the market is impeded. A lot of it without doubt but not all.
It is stupid, lazy, and bigoted people everywhere that keep innovation and growth from happening. Individuals and business and government are all likely to fall victim of being spoiled brats that will lie, cheat, and steal to avoid change, hard work, and competition for market share. The fact that such a depressing mental illness has infected so much of America is undeniable. Of course there are many solid communities that don’t have this illness but It is certainly not the majority and you are correct that the government has a large part in making the majority.
[quote]We should work with the world, definitely… as long as the world works with us. I have seen our government bend over backwards, (and forwards,) and still get shafted.
We should listen to legitimate complaints. But there are way too many illegitimate ones.
(Surprised nobody commented on my joke(s) earlier.)[/quote]
I find the combination of religious zealotry and militant behavior distasteful. I think many people dislike this quality in Bush and many republicans in general both worldwide and at home and this is a valid complaint. Of course I am hoping that if McCain does win he tells the religious right to go fuck itself and keeps Palin in her place as a poster girl.
World public opinion favoring Obama is an asset but the problem is we can’t know for sure of how big of an asset it is. It could turn out that he is an excellent leader on foreign policy and starting with a sympathetic world opinion could be a huge boost for him and our Nations position in the world.
Of course he could also blunder in some way early on and the fickle world opinion turn right back against us.
[quote]Heliotrope wrote:
We demonstrated clearly with the Iraq war that we can out class a large and militant nation militarily with minimal damage to us and total destruction to their military and government. We did this with not only incredible ease but also swiftness. [/quote]
I’ll never forget that quote - “When the President says go, it’s hammer time. It…is…HAMMER TIME.”
I take offense to Lixy who says "Because, in case you missed it, whatever “cocksucker” gets into the White House ends up dropping bodies and blowing innocent people to bits "
which basically calls all our Presidents murderers irregardless of why we were involved in wars, who started them, and what was at stake if we did not get involved.
Hell yeah we invaded and bombed Germany. Don’t you think they deserved it?
Anyway, you’ve avoided thecentral issue here which is that you place less emphasis on human life when it’s not American.
[/quote]
Not trying to start something here, (disregarding the issue of whether or not we should be in Iraq) but how can we respect the lives of the radical Iraqis when their own “military/jihadists” run around in plain clothes? I mean, you have little kids and women over there strapping bombs to themselves. Our military isn’t given the time to interrogate every possible threat over there. I’m sure they try to do the best they can to avoid killing innocent civilians, but it’s like playing roulette.
If the Iraqi extremists really cared about their people, they would distinguish themselves from these innocent civilians. Granted, there have been some Iraqis in uniform, but for the most part, they’re in their robes hiding grenade launchers in their rectums. We’re not dealing with ordinary people here, their whole lives revolve around jihad.
I’ll make my point more plainly. We have lessened our ability to fight a war because we are already engaging a large portion of our force. This make other nations fear our military less and thus lessens our political leverage thus increasing our dependence on their goodwill. [/quote]
I understood what you were trying to say, just found the analogy faulty. But anyway, anytime we use a portion of our forces, that is a portion unavailable elsewhere.
If a more pressing matter come up, they will take the necessary steps. It would have reduced the troops in Iraq, and Iraq would have taken longer to get where we are now. But we always had that ability.[quote]
We demonstrated clearly with the Iraq war that we can out class a large and militant nation militarily with minimal damage to us and total destruction to their military and government. We did this with not only incredible ease but also swiftness. Our ability to do this to another nation is lessened by our “debt” of being committed in Iraq. Our non allies might hope to exploit this. [/quote]
If they thought they could have, they would have. What actually happened is that Iran and Al-Qaeda sent in their groups and weapons to lengthen the war in an attempt to produce a Vietnam type of scenario hoping we would lose our resolve before we won. (And that almost happened.) That was the strategy they implemented.
Militarily we are strong. But politically we are pushovers.[quote]
You are right that we lose political leverage in Iraq from a total withdrawal but a large withdrawal would strengthen our potential power at large. It may embolden terrorist to some extent if we withdrew en mass from Iraq but if we leave a reasonably smaller but potent force we could very easily enact “regime change” again if a terrorist gains control.[/quote]
If we did things right in the first place, we wouldn’t have even had to go there at all. We didn’t take out Saddam for political reasons, and after we pulled out after the Gulf War, what happened next… we failed the people of Iraq completely. Saddam was weak, and the people were rising up, thinking that America was there to support them.
Were we? No! People were slaughtered as a result. Saddam’s iron fist came down to teach his people a lesson. And these people learned they can’t trust America.
I don’t want us to do that ever again.
But I will say that we have achieved our goals, and I do believe it is time to start drawing down troops.
We leave as victors, and leave it up to the Iraqis to decide their fate.[quote]
Despite your wishful thinking based on your feelings a few personal anecdotes won’t reverse global mega trends.
Government and personal debt is growing larger and other nations are becoming increasingly competitive with the US on every front of industry and finance. We import too much energy and other goods. We do this because other nations are enjoying the fruits of taking our wealth and loaning us money in order to continue to do so. [/quote]
I did not say what I said lightly. There is a change brewing, and its bigger then you think. It has moved beyond infancy, and is becoming a toddler. (Maybe this is a bad analogy.)
All over the country are these Dave Ramsey classes, and seminars. They are even starting to appear in our schools. I am watching this thing blow up across the country, and I keep meeting people over and over who are doing his plan.
You watch these people, and make fun of them. Then their out of debt, and 2 years later have everything you have, but without the monthly payments. And suddenly your jumping on board.
It sounds weird enough, unless you have experienced it, and those people are nodding their heads in agreement with this.
If you don’t have a payment on your car, it’s kind of hard for anybody to repo it.
Now why are you expecting anyone to be ruthless to their neighbors?[quote]
I’m sorry but it is not all the governments fault that the market is impeded. A lot of it without doubt but not all.[/quote]
When did I say all? I don’t believe in these absolutes.
I agree for the most part. But these things are a bane to business. These things weaken business, and allow a competitor an edge over them. (Which is why I am such a supporter of the markets.)[quote]
I find the combination of religious zealotry and militant behavior distasteful. I think many people dislike this quality in Bush and many republicans in general both worldwide and at home and this is a valid complaint. Of course I am hoping that if McCain does win he tells the religious right to go fuck itself and keeps Palin in her place as a poster girl. [/quote]
Sounds like you have listened to too many political speeches.
The world is under the impression that Obama will get America under control, and let the rest of the world have more of a say in how we run our government. (And interestingly this is their complaint about us.)
Ask yourself how many other countries think they should vote for their leaders based on what America wants? Even I don’t think they should do that.
Depends on what the blunder is. If it’s bad for America, they may think it’s good.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
And I wasn’t talking to RJ, I was talking to you. I have commented about RJ before, but his actions seem more like an inability to suffer fools.
And the more I attempt to discuss this stuff with people, I start to see his point.
But as crude as he is, he does debate. And unlike you he doesn’t sit around whining about how unfair people are to him.
Also if people pay attention, they will notice that this is upsetting you. A kind of can dish it out but can’t take it attitude. But if you pay attention to RJ, he lives for that fight.
When he is really getting into a fight, you can almost hear him cum.
[/quote]
LOL…did you really have to put it that way? The first part sounds kind of heroic about how he lives for that fight, but the last line…a bit too graphic for me and spoils the effect. That does NOT bring a nice image to mind! I’m picturing a rather large, moustached man sitting in front of a keyboard, grunting in orgasm and jerking off with one hand while he types flames out to people with the other.
LOL…did you really have to put it that way? The first part sounds kind of heroic about how he lives for that fight, but the last line…a bit too graphic for me and spoils the effect. That does NOT bring a nice image to mind! I’m picturing a rather large, moustached man sitting in front of a keyboard, grunting in orgasm and jerking off with one hand while he types flames out to people with the other.[/quote]
Yup, that’s RJ alright. But the question is where is your hand while your imagining this?
Anti Americanism is a very intellectually shallow phenomenon. People over here in most of Europe love to hate on the US and I’m convinced it’s nothing to do with any ideology. Pretty much everyone except China is the “little guy” compared to the US.
Hell, there were even people I spoke to that blamed the US for what was happening in Georgia recently. WTF
That’s why they want change. I like Obama by the way, but he won’t change the illogical hatred of America.
P.S I’m left leaning and have no connections to the US, in case anyone thinks my opinion is biased.
LOL…did you really have to put it that way? The first part sounds kind of heroic about how he lives for that fight, but the last line…a bit too graphic for me and spoils the effect. That does NOT bring a nice image to mind!
I’m picturing a rather large, moustached man sitting in front of a keyboard, grunting in orgasm and jerking off with one hand while he types flames out to people with the other.
Yup, that’s RJ alright. But the question is where is your hand while your imagining this? [/quote]
Haha…firmly on the mouse, my friend…the question was, where was YOUR hand when you first described hearing RJ cumming when he fights.
[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:
Not trying to start something here, (disregarding the issue of whether or not we should be in Iraq) [/quote]
Do you think it’s wise to disregard that much a central issue?
At this point, you have to distinguish between the Islamists – mostly foreigners – looking to kill themselves and anyone they could take out with them (bonus points for the Yanks), and Iraqis trying to get the foreign invaders out of their lands.
I can’t recall such an event involving “little kids”, so please substantiate your claim.
As for women, they are as able as men to carry these sort of attacks. I personally find your phrase sexist.
And this is a good a time as any other to mention that Iraq had ZERO suicide bombings prior to the US invasion. Now, it beats every other country by a large margin on that particularly morbid world record.
I give your soldiers the benefit of the doubt too. But the figures of death of innocent civilians that can be directly attributed to your military is far far higher than those of your military. Which suggests that it’s got nothing to do with roulette and more to do with shoot first and ask questions later.
“Iraqi extremist” in your lingo can mean a variety of things which you should have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge:
Islamists whose enemies are all those that don’t ascribe to their twisted views of religion,
Shi’ites followers of Al-Sadr who primarily want foreigners out of their land unconditionally (they cooled it down lately, but conserve their political weight and might mobilize anytime their leader tells them to),
Ba’athists, secular, socialists and Arab supremacists, they’re after avenging their leader and restoring Baghdad as the strongest capital of the Ba’ath (which Damascus and the Alaouites inherited after the fall of Saddam),
Sunnis caught in the cycle of violence with the Shi’ites (who, from oppressed became unshackled and oppressors). These refuse to take American bribes and weapons to do as they’re told by Washington.
Kurds seeking an independent state for themselves. This is delicate seeing how Turkey is intransigent on the matter.
Mercenaries whose only purpose is to amass money.
Tribal and other ethnic conflicts…
So, who again are you referring to?
I say they should stand in an middle of a giant target drawn on the ground, and hold signs that say “we are not innocent civilians”.
Would that suit you?
Okay…so you had Islamists in mind.
The good news is that their movement has lost momentum in Iraq. The bad news is that they don’t give a damn about borders, nationalist causes and other feuds. They have mostly relocated to Afghanistan/Pakistan and the Maghreb. The other bad news is that they’re a decentralized network of people from all walks of life and nationalities and there’s no way in Hell you can ever eradicate them.
The genie is out of the bottle, and as the common populace keeps getting more access to tech, they will only grow stronger. I suggest you stop getting your panties in a bunch and thinking with your brains for once. Military power and indiscriminate violence is the very thing they feed upon. This here is a job for the police and has been from day one.
