[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
There is nothing wrong with atheism per se, in a lot of ways it is much more sensible than a belief in God. Atheism is simply looking at the world through a rational lens and saying there is no “proof” of the divine, belief in God on the other hand relies totally on your ability to convince yourself that there is an invisible and all-powerful being that has some degree of concern about how you feel and behave, on paper it makes atheists look much less crazy. Now for the record I am religious (Catholic) and I believe in God, I have two brothers that are both atheists, I don’t try to convince them of my beliefs and they don’t try to convince me of theirs, none of us are serial killers (playing the odds on that) and all of us do stuff to help out our communities and neighbors. The real test is this, I believe that when we die we go to heaven, my brothers believe we turn into dirt (eventually), either way we’ll all end up the same place in the end, so who cares what you believe, it is what you do that counts.[/quote]
You must be snorting bath salts. This makes no sense what so ever. Both cannot be right, hence there is either something wrong with theism or atheism. And if you go to heaven and your brother’s are in the dirt, you are not in the same place. I don’t really see how you can say that dirt on the earth and heaven are the same place.
Atheism is irrational because it requires belief in something from nothing, and that is logically impossible and there is nothing anybody can do about it. So on paper, it’s still irrational. On the face of it, it’s still irrational.
It’s just wishful thinking and nothing more.[/quote]
Christianity requires something from nothing. That something is God. There’s already been a thread describing the different types of first causes.
edit: To make that more accurate, Christianity has a first eternal cause and through the trinity it links first cause and effect, but it is not the only way to do so and in my opinion the trinity is excessive in it’s explanation.
My brother just read this thread and asked me if I had so much spare time maybe I could drive down to his house and help with building his in-law suite. I get the point, there is no way for this to be anything other than a waste of time (for all involved), subsequently I will look for threads that might have a question that can actually have an answer.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
My brother just read this thread and asked me if I had so much spare time maybe I could drive down to his house and help with building his in-law suite. I get the point, there is no way for this to be anything other than a waste of time (for all involved), subsequently I will look for threads that might have a question that can actually have an answer.[/quote]
Okay, but just to recap:
You were proven wrong in the gay marriage thread.
Embarrassed in the abortion thread.
Had to concede in our debate regarding liberals building an entitlement society since the “great war on poverty.”
Were exposed as a hypocrite based upon you being a Catholic and your belief in abortion and homosexuality.
And now you’re running away…you just gotta help that brother of yours.
Got it.
Bye B r i a n don’t forget to pop in and say dumb stuff now and then.
It is just as easy to say the works are worth more without faith, if you are doing good things with no hope of eternal life then the good you are doing is even more selfless isn’t it? [/quote]
thank you PAT. For the record I know you did not fuck my mama 20+ years ago as she at 6’1" and 170# of pure born german descent would have bitch slapped your ass back into the stone age…lol (dont take that last statement to personally : )
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
thank you PAT. For the record I know you did not fuck my mama 20+ years ago as she at 6’1" and 170# of pure born german descent would have bitch slapped your ass back into the stone age…lol (dont take that last statement to personally : )[/quote]
I see no point in arguing the merits of religion or atheism I wandered into a hamster wheel and have decided to hop off. I will still post in the other threads don’t you worry.
I see no point in arguing the merits of religion or atheism I wandered into a hamster wheel and have decided to hop off. I will still post in the other threads don’t you worry.[/quote]
I’ll interpret that for you B r i a n.
“I tried to spread some of my very shallow liberal beliefs in a place where I actually had to back them up and I just wasn’t able to do so. So what I’ll do from now on is try to stay away from the hot topics where I get my ass kicked.”
Now hurry on over to your brother’s house you have a lot of work to do today.
I see no point in arguing the merits of religion or atheism I wandered into a hamster wheel and have decided to hop off. I will still post in the other threads don’t you worry.[/quote]
I’ll interpret that for you B r i a n.
“I tried to spread some of my very shallow liberal beliefs in a place where I actually had to back them up and I just wasn’t able to do so. So what I’ll do from now on is try to stay away from the hot topics where I get my ass kicked.”
Now hurry on over to your brother’s house you have a lot of work to do today.
I see no point in arguing the merits of religion or atheism I wandered into a hamster wheel and have decided to hop off. I will still post in the other threads don’t you worry.[/quote]
I’ll interpret that for you B r i a n.
“I tried to spread some of my very shallow liberal beliefs in a place where I actually had to back them up and I just wasn’t able to do so. So what I’ll do from now on is try to stay away from the hot topics where I get my ass kicked.”
Now hurry on over to your brother’s house you have a lot of work to do today.
(eye roll)[/quote]
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I couldn’t think of a more appropriate video my friend.
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
thank you PAT. For the record I know you did not fuck my mama 20+ years ago as she at 6’1" and 170# of pure born german descent would have bitch slapped your ass back into the stone age…lol (dont take that last statement to personally : )[/quote]
I dunno, I am quite charming and I dig tall chicks…Son.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
There is nothing wrong with atheism per se, in a lot of ways it is much more sensible than a belief in God. Atheism is simply looking at the world through a rational lens and saying there is no “proof” of the divine, belief in God on the other hand relies totally on your ability to convince yourself that there is an invisible and all-powerful being that has some degree of concern about how you feel and behave, on paper it makes atheists look much less crazy. Now for the record I am religious (Catholic) and I believe in God, I have two brothers that are both atheists, I don’t try to convince them of my beliefs and they don’t try to convince me of theirs, none of us are serial killers (playing the odds on that) and all of us do stuff to help out our communities and neighbors. The real test is this, I believe that when we die we go to heaven, my brothers believe we turn into dirt (eventually), either way we’ll all end up the same place in the end, so who cares what you believe, it is what you do that counts.[/quote]
You must be snorting bath salts. This makes no sense what so ever. Both cannot be right, hence there is either something wrong with theism or atheism. And if you go to heaven and your brother’s are in the dirt, you are not in the same place. I don’t really see how you can say that dirt on the earth and heaven are the same place.
Atheism is irrational because it requires belief in something from nothing, and that is logically impossible and there is nothing anybody can do about it. So on paper, it’s still irrational. On the face of it, it’s still irrational.
It’s just wishful thinking and nothing more.[/quote]
Christianity requires something from nothing. That something is God. There’s already been a thread describing the different types of first causes.
[/quote]
God isn’t nothing, he something. And there aren’t ‘different types’ of first causes. By definition you can only have one possible first cause.
[quote]
edit: To make that more accurate, Christianity has a first eternal cause and through the trinity it links first cause and effect, but it is not the only way to do so and in my opinion the trinity is excessive in it’s explanation.[/quote]
Christianity requires something from nothing. That something is God. There’s already been a thread describing the different types of first causes.
[/quote]
No, causation is a fundamental rule of the universe. The idea of god is something outside the universe. You cannot apply a rule of the universe to something that is, by definition, not subject to it. You cannot apply causation to god any more than you can gravitation.
physical or not, it doesn’t really matter here.
But no, a cause doesn’t need to be outside its effect. It only need to be distinct.
In medieval times, christian theologians made a distinction between three kind of causes :
transitive causes : the cause produces an effect exterior to itself and cease to exist as a cause in order to produce its effect.
emanative causes : the cause produces an effect exterior to itself and it still remains within itself in order to produce its effect.
immanent causes : the cause produces an effect within itself and remains within it in order to produce its effect.
If the first cause is a transitive one, we have a creation ex nihilo, a transcendant God, and a monotheism. But we still need to introduce an immanent principle at some point. (And that’s why Christianity has a trinity). In this case, the difference between the cause and the effect is ontological. The effect and the cause are different in nature, and they have nothing in common. Which is a paradox in itself.
If the first cause is an emanative cause we end up with a “panentheism”. “God” is both within the world and eternally beyond it. In this case, the difference between the cause and the efect is “chronological”.
if the first cause is an immanent one, we got a pantheism. God and existence are the same. or two side of the same coin. In this case, the difference between the cause and the effect is only “logical”.
[/quote]
I hope Kamui doesn’t mind. But it’s relevant. Christianity and religion in general don’t hold a monopoly on the cause of existence.
