Brian,
So maybe the issue is not C+F but an issue of insulin sensitivity?
Didn’t most of the old time strong men drink a lot of milk? I think I’ve read that and some of those guys were built good and strong. Whole milk is protien carbs and fat.
One thing I wonder about though is if a person is eating every 2 or 3 hours then his insulin will rise at least a little no matter what he eats. And then fat loss is supposed to stop. So all day with frequent feedings he is raising his insulin so fat loss should not be that good. But there are many people eating 6 meals a day who are ripped. What gives?
zulu
i think you need to experiment for your self, only way your going to be happy. who cares what the articles say, depends on how insulin sensitive you are too. every one is different.
Well, when it comes to the whole overfeeding business, I’m not so sure I agree with it. According to my understanding, simply stuffing your face isn’t particularly persuasive for contractile proteins to illicit growth. It merely provides the necessary nutrients to allow the growth to happen. Most energy consumed, if not used, is stored. “Ye muscle cells can only handle so much glycogen captain!”, and adipocytes are greedy little buggers. Although I do maintain that when overfeeding, high ammounts of P+F+C will add fat mass quickly, I’m not so sure anymore it’s so evil when eating an isocaloric or slightly hypercaloric diet. Hmmm, so many variables to consider.
Bigarrow, if insulin is up and carbs aren’t there, then soon fat is oxidized for energy. So eating 6 times a day isn’t a problem, although Vain68 would suggest you space the meals out to 4 hours for maximum fat loss.
Morg, please re-read my last post. I’m saying that insulin sensitivity is NOT the problem, that many things may contribute to “the problem.”
After this reading this thread, I did some research on all of this stuff, and this is what I now believe. Your body best hadles nutrients in a post workout, metabolically active state. I know exercise should not be a crutch for a bad diet, but the only way I seem to be able to get lean is to up my energy expendiature. It seems like physical activity is the key to making a diet work well. I know this has been said a lot, but it is important to remember this when one isolates nutrition from the other physiological stuff going on (like stress, etc).
aither, don’t be overwhelmed. Just do what works, and keep an eye out for what might work better. That’s how I try to take it anyway.
As for your suggestion of exercise, one thing moderate to intense exercise does in just about everybody is allow ALL macronutrients to be used.
I’d like to touch upon an aspect of M.E. that I’ve never seen mentioned - DIGESTION! I have “had” problems with it all my life. These include indigestion, excessive belching, acid re-flux, and distention. Today, about 3 yrs after adopting the M.E. guidelines espoused by JMB, these symptoms are NONEXISTENT! Most important has been keeping those carbs that aren’t greens and fats separate.
So far, I have not experienced the body-comp changes that I had hoped for with M.E., but I’ve been able to consume more Kcals without getting fat. (And I’m almost never hungry.)
BTW- I appreciate all the nice work Brian Smith has done on this interesting thread!
I think the reason you get more lean splitting your meals to P+C or P+F is because overall your consuming less carbs. I mean anyone who fires down Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches is going to get fat. Overall I think this keeps you eating clean hense the lower bf%. I will be bulking soon but doing it with berardi’s recommendations since Im basically starting over again. I will post my results.
bigarrow, eating more frequently will keep your blood sugar/insulin levels more stable. It is my understanding that if you wait too long between meals, your blood sugar will drop. And then when you eat, your blood sugar will spike much higher than if you hadn’t waited so long to eat.
“Bigarrow, if insulin is up and carbs aren’t there, then soon fat is oxidized for energy.”
This is interesting! So would there be a way to get an insulin response without using carbs? I’ve heard of those no carb sweeteners causing an insulin response because of a Pavlov (that dog, hehe, I dunno) response to the taste of sweetness. If this were the case, would this be a way to increase fat loss?
Brian’s right…you pretty much have to keep an open mind and find out what it is that works best for you. Then, even after you think you know what works best, you should give new suggestions a try. I think you are cheating yourself if you don’t keep your mind open…hell, five years from now you may hear a new “theory” that is in contrast with what you are doing now, only to try it and find out that it works better for you.
Aither, WRT increasing energy expenditure by working out longer/harder/more frequently, I’ve found my body to work in the exact opposite fashion you say yours works. For me, if I increase my workload while dieting, all I do is lose muscle. I guess it may be true that a little more fat comes off, but when you lose muscle and fat the scale moves but the bodyfat % doesn’t (necessarily.)
“I think the reason you get more lean splitting your meals to P+C or P+F is because overall your consuming less carbs. Overall I think this keeps you eating clean hense the lower bf%.”
I agree and disagree with this one…less carbs than a high carb diet, for sure. Less carbs than a ‘zone’ or isocaloric diet…I don’t think so (if I remember correctly, Berardi is saying that you should eat 50% of your intake from carbs when trying to get bigger and stronger, which is higher than 40% and 33%.)
The real difference is supposedly in the timing of these meals, which takes advantage of how the body reacts to a workout for the six hours afterwards.
morg, there is a change in blood sugar and insulin levels from protein. I can’t remember if there is a signifigant change from diety fat.
Thanks, Joey Z. I went through this same flurry of questions and doubts about a year ago. I’m glad people are questioning this idea, and I’d like the forum to have more open discussion of Berardi’s principles. Perhaps in time, they will be fine-tuned and expanded on. Maybe someday, there will be a good/better/best organization with the best column the most anal, filled with all the tricks that Type2 diabetics and others have learned to manage the postprandial situation of different meals. So let’s all keep asking questions for the good of us all.–Brian
P.S. Vain68 is the man on a lot of these issues.
After some experimenting on myself, some protein helps manage the transition between fat based meals and my workout surge. I usually eat some lean protein a couple of hours after my last meal, and wait another couple of hours until I start sipping some surge. Berardi never mentioned this in massive eating, but it seems to be working for me.
I have found the same thing, aither.
I find, after my PW drink, I can also add some fibrous vegetables to the protein ‘in between’ meal. It allows me to get my daily intake of greens, fiber, and also some really low GI carbs. Then, an hour after this meal it’s fat+protein time.
Kind of like transitioning from high GI imm. post workout, and lower GI carbs a little after that, then fats.
Pavlov! LoL, everytime I hear that name I think about silly dogs eating yummy meat.