[quote]XArena wrote:
I think this has been asked, but no one has really answered, but, a raw lifter would need more chest and shoulder work (which was already stated) but what would be good exercises? I’m currently running something like westside but without bands, chains and box squats because the gym I go to has none of these. Another question, for someone who isn’t big or strong, would it be a good idea to replace the DE lower body day with a repetition lower body day? [/quote]
Personally, I would LOTS of pressing. Incline, flat, floor, d-bells. Do some shoulder pressing. Nothing revolutionary. If you want to use chains and bands and a box, bring them yourself. Don’t take out the DE day, I’m of the mind that it’s the crux of the program. If I had to choose between DE and ME lower, it would be DE. DE is for Squatting, ME is for special exercises. Do you want to give up your squatting?[/quote]
Oh alright then, I am already doing OH press and dumbbell presses.
I won’t take out the DE day then. Thank you!
[quote]Chase44 wrote:
There IS an eccentric phase in the dead lift correct me if I’m the one that doesn’t get it. If you’re performing the reps touch and go, controlling the weight down then there is an eccentric. Eccentric - less … just drop the weight?[/quote]
Do singles, and drop the weight. Just like in a meet.
I don’t mean to diss west side in any way, truth is they produce monsters
I’m just not an advocate of this “conjugate method” or any method to its strictest definition. I believe in learning and seeking out what’s made others more successful than I currently am, but I also feel like I need to do what’s best for me. I don’t understand how people ask so many specific questions about strength training. It wasn’t complicated till cycling bands, chains and percentages came into the weight room. I don’t like to make training any more complicated than putting some heavy shit on a bar, and moving it. My problem is that there’s so much science and shit that’s come out behind a lot of these methods, people spend more time on these forums asking questions and programming for themselves instead of just training hard and training frequently. You can read all the book and articles and take all the expert advise you want but when it comes down it, it’s about moving weights… why it’s become a fucking math equation lately bothers me. I fuckin hate math!
Even I’m guilty of toying with different things and methods and “over programming” , we all are. How ever now I’m 19 years old, and am proud of a 500 lb squat and 335 bench press. I have a home made squat rack/cage out of wood, a bench, lots of plates and some heavy dumbbells and that’s really all that I need. Fuck the rubber bands. And screw putting more than 500 lbs on my back in a hurry because there’s other areas that I’m strong in and would like to improve on. I set goals , I have a laid out plan and an idea of how to get there but I don’t structure every little thing towards it.
The point was… I don’t feel like people realize some of the things they are asking and how over complicated they make things. I didn’t think the post was that hard to comprehend. It was just a thought?
I don’t mean to diss west side in any way, truth is they produce monsters
I’m just not an advocate of this “conjugate method” or any method to its strictest definition. I believe in learning and seeking out what’s made others more successful than I currently am, but I also feel like I need to do what’s best for me.
[/quote]
Do you really?
Perhaps they are trying to “learn(ing) and seek(ing) out what’s made others more successful than they currently are(I currently am)”.
So, what exactly is your problem? That other people are talking about lifting?
[quote]
Even I’m guilty of toying with different things and methods and “over programming” , we all are. How ever now I’m 19 years old, and am proud of a 500 lb squat and 335 bench press. I have a home made squat rack/cage out of wood, a bench, lots of plates and some heavy dumbbells and that’s really all that I need. Fuck the rubber bands. And screw putting more than 500 lbs on my back in a hurry because there’s other areas that I’m strong in and would like to improve on. I set goals , I have a laid out plan and an idea of how to get there but I don’t structure every little thing towards it.
[quote]Chase44 wrote:
There IS an eccentric phase in the dead lift correct me if I’m the one that doesn’t get it. If you’re performing the reps touch and go, controlling the weight down then there is an eccentric. Eccentric - less … just drop the weight?[/quote]
Deadlifts are not done for reps in competition. You get one shot and the bar starts on the floor, so there is no eccentric.
Chase44, there IS an eccentric phase to the deadlift, however, most people will only lower the weight slightly and then let it drop to the floor so this limits the amount eccentric produced during the lift. As far as why things get technical and overly confusing, because Louie has produced some monsters so a lot of use feel that maybe he understands what he is doing. He and his lifter DO structure every little thing towards his goals because their goals are to lift the heaviest fucking weights they can. As far as ME exercises, find what works for you. If reverse bands or whatever are doing it for you then don’t do them! Different lifts work for different people. My friend swears by only regular flat benching with straight weight, but floor presses and chains do wonders for me. If you don’t advocate the “conjugate method” then go somewhere else. This thread is about just that and the people that want some advice on it. Yes they produce monsters and if you want to be one then listen to what you hear from Louie and some of the guys in this thread.
[quote]Chase44 wrote:
How ever now I’m 19 years old, and am proud of a 500 lb squat and 335 bench press.[/quote]
found your answer right here… hard work gets you so far and you have done well at your age. if you wanna keep progressing, learn as much as you can and take what works for you.
Chase, Obviously you seem to be naturally strong but part of the point of this thread is to go beyond what loading heavy shit on the bar will accomplish. At some point what your doing will stop working, you might even be stronger than everyone else in this thread at that point. But when you stall out you can either stay there or try to learn something new that might improve your lifts.
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
just curious could you do strict overhead press for a ME exercise? I know it doesnt hit the chest but it hits the shoulders and tris good. IT also uses the back to stabalize [/quote]
You absolutely can. Personally, when my shoulders get very strong, it has zero effect on my bench press. I got up to doing Bradford Presses a few years back with 225-250 for sets of 10+ and nothing was different with my bench. Having strong shoulders definitely won’t hurt anything though, I just, personally, don’t notice a difference in my bench when I am hammering my shoulders and when I completely ignore them.
[quote]GruntOrama wrote:
I don’t remember seeing this asked yet. When doing dynamic squatting, how often should you use briefs and during which phases of progression? I guess I’m also curious when to use other gear like suits and shirts as far as max effort and dynamic effort and phase progression go. If you are training for a raw meet, would using briefs for dynamic work benefit you at all or should you not even bother?[/quote]
I touched on this a little bit earlier. I don’t want to go spouting off on a bunch of shit I don’t know anything about. I literally just started using multi ply and have a plan in mind of how to train in the gear.
I can answer the raw question though, yes. Use breifs or a loose suit with the straps down on all of your dynamic work. It will save your hips from being beat to shit all the time. Don’t use them at all in the Transformation Block.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
What general changes would you do for a raw lifter? I know that as a raw lifter, I need more shoulder and chest work for bench (which is something I have focused quite a bit on since I started Westside), but what else would you suggest?
Again, I’m just talking about general changes here, nothing too specific or specialized.[/quote
As far as squatting goes, take the box out from time to time. Plus, eventually you are going to have to sit down, so you will have to grin the quads. Close stance low box Squats are a good exercise. Regular squatting for sets of 5-10 reps, front squats and leg press. Other than that, I haven’t changed shit and I’ve made great gains. Percentages all stay the same, waves all stay the same. I love chains, bands, boards, use them all the time. One recommendation I’d make is to take care of the hips, especially if you are a wide stance squatter. Lots of warms ups and lots of mobility work[/quote]
Definitely this. Dropping the box on a few ME workouts would be pretty much the only suggestions I would give. Doing some heavier free squats for your Repeated Efforts works wonders as well. I love doing pause squats after my ME lower work.
[quote]XArena wrote:
I think this has been asked, but no one has really answered, but, a raw lifter would need more chest and shoulder work (which was already stated) but what would be good exercises? I’m currently running something like westside but without bands, chains and box squats because the gym I go to has none of these. Another question, for someone who isn’t big or strong, would it be a good idea to replace the DE lower body day with a repetition lower body day? [/quote]
Personally, I would LOTS of pressing. Incline, flat, floor, d-bells. Do some shoulder pressing. Nothing revolutionary. If you want to use chains and bands and a box, bring them yourself. Don’t take out the DE day, I’m of the mind that it’s the crux of the program. If I had to choose between DE and ME lower, it would be DE. DE is for Squatting, ME is for special exercises. Do you want to give up your squatting?[/quote]
This. Definitely do more full range of motion exercises if you want to work on your raw bench. And absolutely do not replace DE day with anything.
[quote]XArena wrote:
I think this has been asked, but no one has really answered, but, a raw lifter would need more chest and shoulder work (which was already stated) but what would be good exercises? I’m currently running something like westside but without bands, chains and box squats because the gym I go to has none of these. Another question, for someone who isn’t big or strong, would it be a good idea to replace the DE lower body day with a repetition lower body day? [/quote]
Personally, I would LOTS of pressing. Incline, flat, floor, d-bells. Do some shoulder pressing. Nothing revolutionary. If you want to use chains and bands and a box, bring them yourself. Don’t take out the DE day, I’m of the mind that it’s the crux of the program. If I had to choose between DE and ME lower, it would be DE. DE is for Squatting, ME is for special exercises. Do you want to give up your squatting?[/quote]
Oh alright then, I am already doing OH press and dumbbell presses.
I won’t take out the DE day then. Thank you!
[/quote]
I don’t mean to diss west side in any way, truth is they produce monsters
I’m just not an advocate of this “conjugate method” or any method to its strictest definition. I believe in learning and seeking out what’s made others more successful than I currently am, but I also feel like I need to do what’s best for me. I don’t understand how people ask so many specific questions about strength training. It wasn’t complicated till cycling bands, chains and percentages came into the weight room. I don’t like to make training any more complicated than putting some heavy shit on a bar, and moving it. My problem is that there’s so much science and shit that’s come out behind a lot of these methods, people spend more time on these forums asking questions and programming for themselves instead of just training hard and training frequently. You can read all the book and articles and take all the expert advise you want but when it comes down it, it’s about moving weights… why it’s become a fucking math equation lately bothers me. I fuckin hate math!
Even I’m guilty of toying with different things and methods and “over programming” , we all are. How ever now I’m 19 years old, and am proud of a 500 lb squat and 335 bench press. I have a home made squat rack/cage out of wood, a bench, lots of plates and some heavy dumbbells and that’s really all that I need. Fuck the rubber bands. And screw putting more than 500 lbs on my back in a hurry because there’s other areas that I’m strong in and would like to improve on. I set goals , I have a laid out plan and an idea of how to get there but I don’t structure every little thing towards it.
just do work!!![/quote]
Chase,
Do you have any idea how many times this post has been written on the internet? This is nothing new, or original, or inovative. The orginal post I made in this thread was made with the hopes of keeping shit like this out of here.
You did make a good point “I feel like I need to do whats best for me.” The problem with that statement is, in real life, no one gives a shit about you or what you do. People on here give a shit about learning some new methods and getting themselves as strong as possible. So, unless you have something constructive to add to the discussion, which from the sounds of it you do it, keep this bullshit to yourself from now on.
You could always start up “Chase’s Super HardCORE Strength Lifting Heavy Thread.”
[quote]Chase44 wrote:
There IS an eccentric phase in the dead lift correct me if I’m the one that doesn’t get it. If you’re performing the reps touch and go, controlling the weight down then there is an eccentric. Eccentric - less … just drop the weight?[/quote]
Deadlifts are not done for reps in competition. You get one shot and the bar starts on the floor, so there is no eccentric.[/quote]
There is a very limited stretch reflex in a COMPETITION deadlift. No one gives a shit about how many reps you did in training. The goal of any program is to be successful in the complettion and outcome of that program… not just being super fucking awesome at the program.
And while I’m in here, good luck to Storm this weekend at his raw meet!
Although, we ALL know that westside can’t work for raw lifting and he’s going to bomb out horribly and miss 7/9 attempts without the use of his god damn cheater gear.
[quote]GhostOD wrote:
And while I’m in here, good luck to Storm this weekend at his raw meet!
Although, we ALL know that westside can’t work for raw lifting and he’s going to bomb out horribly and miss 7/9 attempts without the use of his god damn cheater gear. [/quote]
[quote]GhostOD wrote:
And while I’m in here, good luck to Storm this weekend at his raw meet!
Although, we ALL know that westside can’t work for raw lifting and he’s going to bomb out horribly and miss 7/9 attempts without the use of his god damn cheater gear. [/quote]
x2… mostly on the negative stuff.
Rape and pillage the weights![/quote]
Thanks. I have 2 goals for the meet, break all of my old raw PRs (so that I can better plan my training in all the multi ply gear I bought) and don’t completely tear my hamstring off the bone.