The Westside Method Thread

Training Powerlifting
741

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
How do you guys rotate between a deadlift, squat and GM on ME squat/deadlift?

Currently I’m rotating between a squat and a deadlift. From what Dave Tate (I think) said, it’s better not to use GM for ME lift until you get a bit more intermediate/advanced.

Is this how others do it? I saw a video from Wild Iron Gym and they said something like this. Made sense so I’ve kept it that way.[/quote]

In a 20 week cycle I’ll do Squat/GM’s about 90% of the time, and maybe deadlift once or twice. I’ve found it’s easier to build a deadlift not deadlifting whereas squatting I need to get more work under the bar, not necessarily with a straight bar (usually not) but just under the bar.[/quote]

Good answer. I agree completely.

Personally, I only deadlift for an ME movement MAYBE once a month. It is just too stressful to do it more often than that.

As far as GMs for max efforts, just be smart. Go for 3-6rms when you start doing them. Beginners DEFINITELY lack the coordination to lift a heavy good morning safely. Build up the strength first, then worry about the singles much later in training.[/quote]

What if you feel you need to get more work ‘under the bar’ deadlifting because when you dont you feel out of the groove of pulling?[/quote]

Add in speed pulls on your Lower DE day. This can help you stay in the groove without the taxation that comes from doing it as a ME lift. Something along the lines of 8 singles. Preferably against chains or bands, focusing on really driving through your hips and off the ground and hammering that technique. 8 singles is 8 opportunities for you to perfect your setup and drive.

742

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
Could anyone help me with setting up bands?

I’ll be using them for the first time on squats next week and all I have atm due to being broke is a pair of monster minis.

I squatted 160kg on a raw meet(belt wraps) and 170kg(w/ single ply), for my strength level should I or should I not double the monster minis? I’m ~5 weeks out from a raw meet by the way so I have no room to try things out since I’m looking at a 3week speed-strength wave followed by a 2 week transformation phase.

If it helps, I’m about 5’7 so the estimated tension would be a lot less. Thanks![/quote]

If you double them up drop the straight weight down to about 15-25% and make it a true speed cycle. If you’re looking for speed-strength don’t double them up - monsters mini is an appropriate band tension for your current strength level.

743

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
Could anyone help me with setting up bands?

I’ll be using them for the first time on squats next week and all I have atm due to being broke is a pair of monster minis.

I squatted 160kg on a raw meet(belt wraps) and 170kg(w/ single ply), for my strength level should I or should I not double the monster minis? I’m ~5 weeks out from a raw meet by the way so I have no room to try things out since I’m looking at a 3week speed-strength wave followed by a 2 week transformation phase.

If it helps, I’m about 5’7 so the estimated tension would be a lot less. Thanks![/quote]

If you double them up drop the straight weight down to about 15-25% and make it a true speed cycle. If you’re looking for speed-strength don’t double them up - monsters mini is an appropriate band tension for your current strength level.
[/quote]

thanks man.

what do you mean by true speed cycle though? Is it the same as strength-speed cycle?

744

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
Could anyone help me with setting up bands?

I’ll be using them for the first time on squats next week and all I have atm due to being broke is a pair of monster minis.

I squatted 160kg on a raw meet(belt wraps) and 170kg(w/ single ply), for my strength level should I or should I not double the monster minis? I’m ~5 weeks out from a raw meet by the way so I have no room to try things out since I’m looking at a 3week speed-strength wave followed by a 2 week transformation phase.

If it helps, I’m about 5’7 so the estimated tension would be a lot less. Thanks![/quote]

If you double them up drop the straight weight down to about 15-25% and make it a true speed cycle. If you’re looking for speed-strength don’t double them up - monsters mini is an appropriate band tension for your current strength level.
[/quote]

thanks man.

what do you mean by true speed cycle though? Is it the same as strength-speed cycle?
[/quote]

No, speed cycles are more accomodated resistance, less straight weight, whereas strength-speed is the reverse.

If you think of it from a pure grammatical aspect, strength speed is producing high force as quickly as possible, speed is simply how fast you can do something. To different training paradigms.

745

Then what is speed-strength and how does it differ from a strict speed cycle?

746

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Doing heavy RDL’s for a rep max makes your testicles bigger.[/quote]

Doing this today as part of my first week of my second accumulation block. 20RM you say? wish me luck in not losing my colon. Previous to this I did 3 weeks accumulation 3 weeks intensification and 1 week transmutation leading up to my meet and put 50kg on my total![/quote]

Good luck. My best so far is 500lbs for 16. I don’t think it was to failure but I decided to stop after I saw, what I think was, a baby Jesus in an Elvis costume dancing in my garage.

Awesome progress with your total. Keep it up!

747

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
How do you guys rotate between a deadlift, squat and GM on ME squat/deadlift?

Currently I’m rotating between a squat and a deadlift. From what Dave Tate (I think) said, it’s better not to use GM for ME lift until you get a bit more intermediate/advanced.

Is this how others do it? I saw a video from Wild Iron Gym and they said something like this. Made sense so I’ve kept it that way.[/quote]

In a 20 week cycle I’ll do Squat/GM’s about 90% of the time, and maybe deadlift once or twice. I’ve found it’s easier to build a deadlift not deadlifting whereas squatting I need to get more work under the bar, not necessarily with a straight bar (usually not) but just under the bar.[/quote]

Good answer. I agree completely.

Personally, I only deadlift for an ME movement MAYBE once a month. It is just too stressful to do it more often than that.

As far as GMs for max efforts, just be smart. Go for 3-6rms when you start doing them. Beginners DEFINITELY lack the coordination to lift a heavy good morning safely. Build up the strength first, then worry about the singles much later in training.[/quote]

What if you feel you need to get more work ‘under the bar’ deadlifting because when you dont you feel out of the groove of pulling?[/quote]

That’s what speed pulls and assistance work are for. Like I’ve said a million times, everyone is different. I pull over 800lbs so deadlifting for a max twice in a month will make me die. On the other hand, I have had my training set-up like this since my pull was right around 700.

Anyway, mess around, see what you can handle. I am always searching for optimal training, not maximal training.

748

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
How do you guys rotate between a deadlift, squat and GM on ME squat/deadlift?

Currently I’m rotating between a squat and a deadlift. From what Dave Tate (I think) said, it’s better not to use GM for ME lift until you get a bit more intermediate/advanced.

Is this how others do it? I saw a video from Wild Iron Gym and they said something like this. Made sense so I’ve kept it that way.[/quote]

In a 20 week cycle I’ll do Squat/GM’s about 90% of the time, and maybe deadlift once or twice. I’ve found it’s easier to build a deadlift not deadlifting whereas squatting I need to get more work under the bar, not necessarily with a straight bar (usually not) but just under the bar.[/quote]

Good answer. I agree completely.

Personally, I only deadlift for an ME movement MAYBE once a month. It is just too stressful to do it more often than that.

As far as GMs for max efforts, just be smart. Go for 3-6rms when you start doing them. Beginners DEFINITELY lack the coordination to lift a heavy good morning safely. Build up the strength first, then worry about the singles much later in training.[/quote]

Okay, but bearing in mind I am a beginner, would it still be like that?

I still want to keep a good groove for squat AND deadlift. Plus, I can understand being able to deadlift 800+ may be horrible as fuck to do it every other week but, for example, I did 405x5 on 2-3" blocks today. It’s not exactly massive weight.

I do agree that if I didn’t lift for a few weeks my squat would suffer way more than deadlift. But I still feel like I need more deadlifting than just once a month - if that. I know I’m answering my own question. I appreciate the help, just want to provide more information for you really.

Also, yes, I do that too - squat ME and then high rep RDLs on Accumulation phase. Also one of the few times I break the rule that you said.
[/quote]

Heavy is relative based on what you can handle. Heavy never feels better and there is nothing you can do about it. Whether its an 800 deadlift or a 450lb deadlift, the first time you break that threshold its going to feel like shit.

That being said, you get plenty of work with your speed pulls and assistance work. Exerting max force on an optimal weight will simulate the tension needed to move your max weight. Form has to be spot on for every rep or speed will suffer.

Everything on here is a general guidline. That’s the beauty of the system. You feel like you need more heavy deadlifts? Well, add them into your max efforts, keep a detailed training log, and see what you can handle over the long term.

749

[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
Then what is speed-strength and how does it differ from a strict speed cycle?[/quote]

Speed-Strength is the ability to be quick and execute something strongly
Strength-Speed is the ability to be strong and excute something quickly.

It’s like running a 100 meter sprint and being able to body check someone randomly in there versus being able to push a car for 100 meters but push it very quick at a specific instance, maybe say to clear a pot hole.

750

Starting an accummulation phase on monday, here’s my plan, critisize, please!!
Phase is gonna be 4 weeks

ME upper - 3x5, 2x3 on the main lift - total of 5 lifts above 90%
ME lower - 3x5, 2x3 on the main lift - total of 5 lifts above 90%
DE upper - 20x3
DE lower - 20x2SQ, 20x1DL
2 weeks squats, 2 weeks DLs
DLs are gonna be - 3x5, 2x3 on the first week of DLs and max rep test on the 2nd week of DLs at about 70-80% of 1rm
SQ/DL/SQ/DL
Upper is gonna be regular/floor/regular/floor
Lower is gonna be regularSQ/regularDL/boxSQ/regularDL
Can’t wait to try the DE lower days, loving having a hard time taking a shit!
Sounds good ?

751

I recently just read about how DE work for raw lifters is supposed to be 70-80%. Is that true? I know Louie writes about the waves in the ~50% range, but is that just for the geared lifters?

752

Not quite. %s don’t matter, just go as fast as possible. %s are just a guideline.
I doubt that you can go fast enough with 70-80% on anything other than the DL tho. Just try 40-60, see how that feels and lower/increase as needed.

753

when you deload do you cut back on the assistance and the dynamic work?

754

STB (or anyone else really): How do you deal with failing to hit a PR on your ME lift? I’ve read or watched stuff with Dave Tate/Jim Wendler and at times they just shrug it off like it doesn’t matter - it’s bound to happen.

But I kinda let it get to me quite a bit and, unfortunately, at times it means that I get quite pissed off and the rest of my session gets slightly ruined due to it.

Do you just accept that it’s bound to happen here and there and just don’t worry if it happens? Just mentally how do you deal with it?

755

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Not quite. %s don’t matter, just go as fast as possible. %s are just a guideline.
I doubt that you can go fast enough with 70-80% on anything other than the DL tho. Just try 40-60, see how that feels and lower/increase as needed.[/quote]

Not entirely. You need to keep the percentages the same to keep the volume up.

To the poster asking about failing to hit a PR: When this happens, I usually lower the weight, and hit a heavy (but not PR) triple or something. This way, I don’t end the heavy work with a failed set, which can be a mental thing sometimes.

Otherwise, sack up and deal with it. Failure happens. Get it next time.

756

I did my first DE upper last night . I go in thinking this 15x3 at 50% is going to be cake …I dont care how little rest between sets . well , I get done with that and start my second movement …2 board (supplemental/sticking point) press for a heavy’ish 3x5 ;thinking I’ll work up to close to my 5RM , then back off and hit a couple more sets ; not PR hunting , just heavy’ish .

well , I didnt get anywhere close to my 5RM on the 2 board…actually about 40 fuckin’ pounds shy . those DE sets pounded me into the ground .

NOW I know what DE is supposed to feel like .

757

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:

[quote]LoveSquatting wrote:
Not quite. %s don’t matter, just go as fast as possible. %s are just a guideline.
I doubt that you can go fast enough with 70-80% on anything other than the DL tho. Just try 40-60, see how that feels and lower/increase as needed.[/quote]

Not entirely. You need to keep the percentages the same to keep the volume up.

To the poster asking about failing to hit a PR: When this happens, I usually lower the weight, and hit a heavy (but not PR) triple or something. This way, I don’t end the heavy work with a failed set, which can be a mental thing sometimes.

Otherwise, sack up and deal with it. Failure happens. Get it next time.[/quote]

Maybe I misunderstood, but are you saying that you should stick with the 50-55-60% even if you’re going slow ? I highly doubt that. %s are merely a guideline.

758

That is not what I said. The point is that those guidelines are also your goals. Change them too much and you end up either moving too slow, or you’re not getting the GPP/volume work you need.

If you’re moving too slow with those percentages, then you either suck at speed work (as is my case), your technique is off, which is common with people who aren’t used to box squatting, or the max that you’re basing your percentages off of is too high.

Lowering the percentages is okay, but don’t go overboard.

759

Of course, I never meant you should go bar only. Take off 5-10% or add some till you perform better, then start adding accordingly :).

760

I’m a raw bencher. I can wide-grip bench 115kg for a single. Yet my military press is shockingly low - 60kg for 3-4 reps.

Now, do you see this as a weakness or that there’s little correlation? I’m finding it hard to judge whether it means that raising my OHP would do much good for my bench or if my bench is being held back BECAUSE of my weak OHP.

It is definitely quite low relatively - I know that. I do try to improve it but some shoulder injuries here and there make that harder.