hey STB how often do you do curls or direct bicep work and what day do you do them on.
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
how come grips on DE bench are alternated, but stances on DE squat aren’t? I know it seems like minutia but I’ve always wondered.[/quote]
I vary my stance on pretty much every set when training for a raw or single ply meet. Training onnly wide to a box WILL make your raw squat go up but, I like the variaiton. Even with my limited experience in multi gear, I can see why Louie suggests only training with a wide stance… a big reason being you will kill yourself and your spine will shit out of your ass if you squat too narrow. My jack breifs require an almost full split to be comfortable in the hole.[/quote]
does wide stance box squatting help you even if you are a somehow med-stance/more-quad-using squatter such as myself?
my narrow stance(~6 inches in from my normal stance) PR is 340lbs. my wide stance(~4 inches wider than normal) is 325lbs. I haven’t tested my normal stance in the spirit of the conjugate system but I’m 90% sure it is higher than my close stance squat. This shows I have weak hips/hams. [/quote]
There is actually a video of Louie Simmons explaining that wide stance squatting will help to improve close stance squatting, but the opposite doesnt hold true. Anytime I use a box for squatting I use a wider stance. It allows me to work on my flexability and hip strength…but once I remove the box, I bring my feet in just a bit
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
hey STB how often do you do curls or direct bicep work and what day do you do them on. [/quote]
I pic a curl movement and do it once a week, its usually hammer curls or reverse curls, that way I can get some forarm work out of it. I hate training bi’s, actually I despise it…so you may be told to do it a bit more often, but 3 or 4 sets a week works for me
Yeah I dont like training Bis either, plus it has a bad stigma with all the tools in the gym doing curls. But from what I read it is good to do them for injury prevention and overall balance in the arm.
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
[quote]simonsky96 wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
how come grips on DE bench are alternated, but stances on DE squat aren’t? I know it seems like minutia but I’ve always wondered.[/quote]
I vary my stance on pretty much every set when training for a raw or single ply meet. Training onnly wide to a box WILL make your raw squat go up but, I like the variaiton. Even with my limited experience in multi gear, I can see why Louie suggests only training with a wide stance… a big reason being you will kill yourself and your spine will shit out of your ass if you squat too narrow. My jack breifs require an almost full split to be comfortable in the hole.[/quote]
does wide stance box squatting help you even if you are a somehow med-stance/more-quad-using squatter such as myself?
my narrow stance(~6 inches in from my normal stance) PR is 340lbs. my wide stance(~4 inches wider than normal) is 325lbs. I haven’t tested my normal stance in the spirit of the conjugate system but I’m 90% sure it is higher than my close stance squat. This shows I have weak hips/hams. [/quote]
There is actually a video of Louie Simmons explaining that wide stance squatting will help to improve close stance squatting, but the opposite doesnt hold true. Anytime I use a box for squatting I use a wider stance. It allows me to work on my flexability and hip strength…but once I remove the box, I bring my feet in just a bit[/quote]
Yes, always squat wider with a box than you would with your free squats. The only reason this would not transfer over to your competition squat is if you were doing the box squat incorrectly.
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
hey STB how often do you do curls or direct bicep work and what day do you do them on. [/quote]
I pic a curl movement and do it once a week, its usually hammer curls or reverse curls, that way I can get some forarm work out of it. I hate training bi’s, actually I despise it…so you may be told to do it a bit more often, but 3 or 4 sets a week works for me[/quote]
Personally, I do some kind of curl variation at least once a week. Parts of the bicep cross the shoulder and elbow so, if for no other reason, they are good for shoulder and elbow health. Plus, I am of the school of thought that everything that can be strengthened needs to be as strong as possible in order to get the best total possible.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]ThermalWarrior wrote:
Is it necessary to use the Westside Template in the accumulation period? Or can I train more generally and move to Westside Template in the intensification period? I have a routine in the Encyclopedia of Strength that is designed to induce slight overtraining with high volume before backing off before the next phase begins. [/quote]
You’ve got to ask yourself, why on earth would you want to be overtrained during this time period? The intensification block should be so hard it almost kills you. You can train however you wish. Everything discussed on here is in regards to training for maximal strength at the most optimal time (competition). The Accumulation Block is very general to begin with. General in terms of strength development. I would stil strongly suggest having a main ME or DE lift for the training session, then you can do pretty much whatever you as long as you are increasing GPP and bringing up your weaknesses as they relate to the competition lifts.
Does that make sense?[/quote]
Makes loads of sense. I read my question/comment again and it was stupid! I was meaning overreaching not overtraining! Any case I have found a Dave Tate routine that fits all my needs and I feel like at the moment that I am too much of novice in this type of training so I would rather have it spoon fed to me by an expert until I feel confident enough to alter the routine myself.
Having said that I will still collect the information presented in this thread so I have it all ready when it comes to thinking for myself ha ha!
Cheers!
So if I decide to give the Westside method a spin (which is why I’m posting in this thread), should I just do the one from the Iron Evolution 6 article and add more speed work/pulls or should I do it as is? I usually like to do programs as the author wrote them, but everyone says you should do speed pulls every week. I basically want a good introductory program.
Also, how are people rotating their supplemental and assistance work?
for assistance I do what I read in the Wendler westside template. for upper body days I make sure I get one tri, shoulders, back exercise and for lower I get one hamstrings, glute, lowback abs movement. I just did my speed day for lowerbody and I did good mornings and abs cause good morning hit everything. On my ME squat day I do front squats just to make sure my quads get hit. I took this template from Wendler and that helped me with assistance
Storm, you keep on mentioning the importance of bicep work. What do you think of doing pullups/chinups as bicep work? I mainly stick to close grip and neutral grip chins, and I’d like to think that that is enough, but I’m just looking for some other thoughts here.
In response to the guy who asked about how to rotate your supplementary/accessory lifts, I think that you should change them once you find other weak points that you need to work on. For example, if your upper back is weak, you do a lot of upper back work. If you strengthen it to the point where it is no longer the weak point, I would say you should change things up to work on whatever weak point you now have. Obviously, don’t completely stop doing upper back work, but ease off of it and work on something else a bit more.
Personally, I plan on rotating my supplementary work every 3 months or so, or after I do a meet. That way, I can look back on my logs, see what I’ve strengthened, what needs strengthened, etc, and make intelligent decisions based on the work I’ve already done.
Just my thoughts. I’m not an expert by any means.
Merry Christmas guys! Thanks for helping me out.
I was wondering how can I work in illegal wides? I was thinking about doing them for reps in the 5-6 range after my upperbody max effort lift. I would think they are too dangerous to do as a ME lift.
Jim Wendler suggests them as a ME exercise in the ‘Max Effort’ ebook.
I do wide grip bench with a 3 count pause at the bottom for sets of 5 on my heavy days. I go pretty light, less than 200 pounds, but after my main lift and whatever tricep movement I do, it gets rough.
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
So if I decide to give the Westside method a spin (which is why I’m posting in this thread), should I just do the one from the Iron Evolution 6 article and add more speed work/pulls or should I do it as is? I usually like to do programs as the author wrote them, but everyone says you should do speed pulls every week. I basically want a good introductory program.
Also, how are people rotating their supplemental and assistance work?[/quote]
I have no idea what the Iron Evolution 6 article is.
With the info thats been presented and contributed in this thread, if I were you, I would read through it and put a program together with everything that has been posted. A ton of stuff has been covered already, especially how to implement an introductory program.
Everyone has a different outlook on assistance work. Personally, I like switching all the exercises every week. But, I always keep a template in mind for the day and choose exercises based on what I want to work on. For example:
Maxe Effort Bench Day:
-Max Effort lift for a 5,3,or 1 rep max
-Compound Triceps- High Rep DB Benching early in training, high rep BB Training later in training
-Isolated Triceps- High rep extensions w/ dbs or barbells early in training, 6rm with barbells later in training
-Compund Lats-Rows
-Shoulder Stuff
-Biceps
With my plan in mind, there are literally millions of combinations for exercises that are all working the muscle groups I want to target. I get bored easy. I need variation in everything I do.
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
for assistance I do what I read in the Wendler westside template. for upper body days I make sure I get one tri, shoulders, back exercise and for lower I get one hamstrings, glute, lowback abs movement. I just did my speed day for lowerbody and I did good mornings and abs cause good morning hit everything. On my ME squat day I do front squats just to make sure my quads get hit. I took this template from Wendler and that helped me with assistance
Bingo. Just don’t limit yourself to certain exercises all the time. Don’t forget, you have weaknesses and imbalances that need to be worked on. Only performing the lifts you are good at will not help you.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
Storm, you keep on mentioning the importance of bicep work. What do you think of doing pullups/chinups as bicep work? I mainly stick to close grip and neutral grip chins, and I’d like to think that that is enough, but I’m just looking for some other thoughts here.
In response to the guy who asked about how to rotate your supplementary/accessory lifts, I think that you should change them once you find other weak points that you need to work on. For example, if your upper back is weak, you do a lot of upper back work. If you strengthen it to the point where it is no longer the weak point, I would say you should change things up to work on whatever weak point you now have. Obviously, don’t completely stop doing upper back work, but ease off of it and work on something else a bit more.
Personally, I plan on rotating my supplementary work every 3 months or so, or after I do a meet. That way, I can look back on my logs, see what I’ve strengthened, what needs strengthened, etc, and make intelligent decisions based on the work I’ve already done.
Just my thoughts. I’m not an expert by any means.
[/quote]
As long as you are doing something, thats all that matters. Chins are great for bicep and upper back development. Personally, all of the pull-ups in the universe don’t help my bench and I am usually half dead by the time I get done doing my lat work (usually sets of 30 on db rows or finding a 6rm on barbell rows). That’s why I usually just stick with BB curls, band curls, and db work. I know this works for me because if I slack on them, I get a very shitty/achy feeling in my elbows.
[quote]Vladamir wrote:
Merry Christmas guys! Thanks for helping me out.
I was wondering how can I work in illegal wides? I was thinking about doing them for reps in the 5-6 range after my upperbody max effort lift. I would think they are too dangerous to do as a ME lift. [/quote]
These are very hard to do out of most racks and benches. The exercise itself is not bad but the chance of losing a pinky is very high. Anyway, yes, use them as assistance after the main lift for the day. Establish a 6, 8, and 10rm (obviously not all in the same workout) and try to beat them everytime you go back to the exercise.
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
Jim Wendler suggests them as a ME exercise in the ‘Max Effort’ ebook.[/quote]
He also tells a story about reverse band goodmornings in the Max Effort Manual. I would like to think he was joking about the illegal wides too. haha. That was one of the best books on training I have ever read.
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]Razamataz wrote:
Jim Wendler suggests them as a ME exercise in the ‘Max Effort’ ebook.[/quote]
He also tells a story about reverse band goodmornings in the Max Effort Manual. I would like to think he was joking about the illegal wides too. haha. That was one of the best books on training I have ever read.[/quote]
i’ve watched louie’s dvd’s and he suggests db’s for reps or illegal wides as a deload main movement for ME Upper day
Sorry if this has been asked but I was wondering how somewhat of a beginner would do Westside.
From a little bit that I’ve read here and there, some say that you shouldn’t do DE days and that only ME and RE are what you really require initially. Further, for a beginner, is there much use in changing lifts every few weeks? As in, going from 2 board to floor press to close inclines etc.
If that’s the case, how would one incorporate these for a beginner?