But… It’s… pot…
It’s a nuisance if people are walking around stoned out of their gourd
But on private property… Away from kids… It’s not a danger
Didn’t you try cannabis on more than one occasion? I’m presuming probably in high school?
JAIL (kidding)
Criminal records for youngsters can be sealed by order of a judge. I know this as a fact.
Provided they are below the age of eighteen
Drug use peaks at 18-25 (at least in Aus)
If only everyone kept everything private. Posted two hours ago.
Hence the Netherlands (the framework)
Outside of Amsterdam, it works and for the most part it’s treated like drinking
For the most part, it’s out of public eye. If this could theoretically be the case depending on the framework by which cannabis is tolerated under, what’s the fuss about?
Kids are the ones primarily at risk from cannabis. Grown adults? It’s like drinking
It’s not conducive for productivity. But provided we are talking “once in a blue moon” during an occasion by which you have no responsibilities for the next 6-12 hours… I don’t see what the big deal is
Should be mentioned though, some adults can’t tolerate cannabis… It just doesn’t mix well with them, same goes for alcohol. Some people just shouldn’t drink, or smoke pot… Because of the way it alters their behaviour
Actually… No one should be drinking or smoking pot. But people do, and provided it’s done in moderation neither (from my perspective) is the end of the world.
I said goodbye to some family friends last night and had one large beer with the father of the family because he wanted to share a drink with me before I left (I leave tomorrow morning) and I’m close with this particular family.
This large beer contained over 2 standard drinks but under 3. It made me feel slightly fuzzy, acted as a social lubricant.
Is it good for me? No… However this was the first alcoholic beverage I’d had in months… Moderation… It wasn’t the end of the world.
I didn’t know this. It looks like it went into the 50s. That’s crazy, haha.
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Should also be noted… The rampant homelessness like this seen in Philly is very uncommon in Aus, NL etc.
Very sad video though. I’m going to sleep now and I’m sure I’ll have upsetting dreams now… Not a good choice for a before bed video…
I need to reiterate… I am not saying “cannabis should be legal so we can encourage more people to puff away”. We already see this with mass scale alcohol marketing… And it’s a horrible paradigm that encourages a toxic culture to continually flourish. I am NOT trying to encourage people to drink, smoke pot or pop pills… Drug use is a HUGE, GARGANTUAN, colossal waste of time even if it can be a lot of fun, society would be better off without all of this…
I’m not an advocate for encouraging people to take up vices that destroy ambition… Particularly kids… I’m far, far, far, far less concerned about the prospect of adults using relative to kids/young teens… If it weren’t for kids I’d say “you can smoke pot and drink wherever you want”.
I’m looking for the means of grappling with this issue that mitigates the negative impact drug use has on a society.
Netherlands seems to have done a very good job. Many use drugs occasionally in a matter that is ultimately (from my perspective) not the end of the world. However the rate of addiction is very low, for those who are addicts; the rate of health complications is very low relative to the US/Aus… Fewer and fewer younger kids are getting hooked on drugs.
Contrast the Netherlands to Aus… Where we have a raging methamphetamine epidemic, a very high rate of cocaine and ecstacy use… And the USA where you’ve got an opiate epidemic…
It has been said heroin addiction may even be phased out over there over the next few decades.
The Netherlands use two criteria… Hard drugs and soft drugs. For the hard stuff, police clamp down very hard on distribution… Personal use is also a crime however E and cocaine have been decriminalized. For the soft stuff… The police don’t care so long as it is kept out of public eye because it doesn’t appear to have much of a large scale societal impact
Yup! It’s an awesome example.
When we talk about flogging… Are we talking about flogging for drug USE or just for selling? What if you grow your own cannabis/tobacco/opium poppy and supply yourself?
I need to go to sleep… But I’ll get into why I don’t like the idea tomorrow. It all starts with a stale avocado
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Regarding your mention of flogging causing scarring, it is the criminal who knowingly committed a violation that could result in that, regardless of what we think of the law he violated.
Considering people who are reasonably deemed to be dangerous to the public or routinely violate public spaces (public drug use, loitering, theft, vandalism, intimidation, harassment, etc.) and are warned over and over and over again, I would not be the slightest bit sympathetic for their pain or scars. It is they who chose to harm others. Refraining from doing so is simple.
And I consider not punishing these people to be inhumane.
I think out of all examples, loitering is the most benign.
I personally can’t stand it when people chuck their non biodegradable products on the floor, however flogging seems like a disproportionate step.
I don’t like the idea of it because I dislike the construct of societal infantalism. There is actually some data indicative those punished with corporal punishment are actually more likely to re-offend depending on the crime at hand.
I’m interested in rehabilitation, not draconian punishments instilled on the basis of vested moral constructs. Not liking something doesn’t give you the right to whip people.
There is a looooooot of data indicative treating personal use as a criminal issue as opposed to a health issue necessitates bad outcomes.
Have we thought about what drives most to addiction? Say one individual has been sexually abused extensively as a child, they’ve gone from foster home to foster home. Eventually they turn to heroin as a means to escape reality. Punishing someone like this with prison time is inhumane.
Not all laws make sense. Let’s use covid as an example. You aren’t a fan of the restrictions… If you had been in Aus under the one of the most draconian/the most prolonged lockdown in the world, would you have followed ALL of the rules… Not wearing a mask = (at the time) a 5,000$+ fine… Meeting up to see a friend? 20,000$ fine…
It’s inhumane… But it’s the law… And this is where centralised control gets you to. You don’t have a choice as to what is/isn’t passed. Don’t like vaccine mandates? Tough… Government says you need to be vaccinated in order to leave the HOUSE…
As to antisocial/deviant conduct. It depends on the substance. Someone popping a tablet of ecstacy isn’t going to turn violent, they aren’t going to hurt anybody… Such behaviour shouldn’t be encouraged or promoted, however if I look at the big picture… I think there is a HUGE difference between someone who takes MDMA once every year vs someone who is shooting up in McDonald’s bathrooms. I think there’s a huge difference between someone who gets drunk once per year on NYE vs the weekend warrior who gets drunk every Saturday night.
It depends on the context. Sending someone to rehab or prison over a small quantity of cannabis and/or acid (can’t get addicted to acid) is absolutely absurd. I don’t really care what adults do on occasion let off steam song as the hijinks can legitimately be kept out of public eye (this includes kids that may live under your roof).
I don’t think many well adjusted adults would take acid or E… I’d seriously question how mature a middle aged man/woman is if they were into taking LSD and going to grateful dead concerts; but at the same time I’m not absolutely outraged by it; rather I think such a dynamic needs to be initiated away from any impressionable youths. Preferably, people wouldn’t do it at all. With that being said, I’m not tossing and turning at night over this.
Do you have a particular stance on tobacco products? Also, do you believe drinking to excess ought to be a punishable offence?
Hope this makes sense, I juuust woke up. I’ll edit this later if my message is incoherent. I didn’t sleep well
Here’s a funny anecdote. The other day for dinner I was making myself a nice sandwich. Rye bread, pickles, kosher brisket… It’s absolutely the bee’s knees! In my fridge, I found an avocado 
I thought to myself “YES… I’ll put that on the sandwich too”. Now… This avocado looked normal, so I opened it up and put some cut up slices on my sandwich
It should be noted some seasonal allergies irritate my nose at times, blocking my ability to smell adequately. I started eating the sandwich, I was ravenous!
Three of four bites in “hmmmm, something doesn’t taste quite right”. I keep eating, until I come to the last bite, there’s only bread and avocado in this particular bite
And it hits me “my god… What’s wrong with this avocado”. I put the sandwich down, lick up the second half of the avocado and take a bite… The avocado had gone off… It didn’t look rotten… But mark my words it was rotten …
My stomach was in a bad state for the next day… That’s $4,000,000 down the drain!
They don’t do it in public, which, pragmatically speaking, defeats the purpose of public humiliation and deterrence. Like people who’ve never been in a fight, very few can fathom how much pain would be inflicted. I’ve been told some poor saps whom are sentenced to a large amount of lashes pass out halfway and they have to finish it in another session. You’re probably thinking about Indonesia and homosexuals (doesn’t happen often, though).
EDIT:
When it comes to users, I think rehab without prison time would be more effective in the long run. You’ve also noted that it’s still a form of “imprisonment” without a criminal record although realistically, if you look for a good, high paying job in the future, employers can still find out. Over here, even if you have a record of being in a public mental hospital for any reason, headhunters will find out through centralized medical records. I believe it’s the same for other countries with medical insurance schemes even if you go to private ones but it’s probably much less taboo in the West.
EDIT:
Actually, I think even private practitioners here are supposed to sign up to keep and upload records on the public ledger unless they can’t do so for certain reasons. Not really sure but I remember when I brought my relative’s kid to a private psychiatrist here, he told me he only keeps hand written records because otherwise patients wouldn’t go to him since most of his patients are pretty well-to-do. They have very fucking strict guidelines for prescribing benzos here.
If anyone is interested, I’ll just ask my GP friend but I’m not gonna reveal my location. I guess my point is everything you do now even like doctor hopping to get certain drugs that can also be used recreationally will be on record FOREVER so don’t be fucking stupid. Sooner or later, almost everything will be recorded on the blockchain and no one can even fucking hack it to delete stuff.
EDIT:
For major dealers, I agree with @BrickHead. Public hanging would be a good idea only because I fucking hate the fuck out of them. I’ve not really bothered to weigh the pros and cons. My optimal choice would be burning at the stake, though, but I doubt the public these days will be able to stomach that.
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I said routinely. And I have not touched upon every misdoing known to man. I also mentioned context. Hence I said “and/or” and “depending on the case.”
I also mentioned a case in which corporal punishment significantly drove down theft.
Whoever said this is a matter Or disliking something. I am talking about a violation of others.
I already stared over and over that I don’t generally think people should be punished heavily for personal use.
You move in so many directions and to such extreme examples that I cannot even follow the conversation. I say with this with respect and politeness. I give context and leeway on the topic and I have things thrown at me that I didn’t even think about or would never consider. Or you speak as if I don’t agree. I already stayed numerous times in numerous threads that the causes of social pathologies should be looked at, including a book titled, of all thin names, Deaths of Despair.
If you cannot stop eating avocados 
at least save money by not having them with feta or goat cheese 
with artisan 
bread.
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My bad, sorry
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It’s OK.
Agreed, addiction tends to bring out the worst in people. I dislike the terminology “meth /whatever ruined my life”.
That’s true to a degree, the methamphetamine you took fundamentally changed who you were at the time.
However the meth didn’t load itself into the glass pipe you took it out of. You took the meth, and if you’re guilty of heinous misconduct as a result of your antics that is on you.
I can sympathise as to why people turn to poison like this… I can’t sympathise with say… A drunk driver running over a pedestrian because they were drunk, or a meth addled individual beating up their partner
There is no excuse
As to public hanging for distributers of destructive substances like crack, heroin etc… I somewhat agree @BrickHead
Only caveat I have is I’d need to be absolutely sure we were executing the right people. Those who peddle fentanyl are guilty of killing so many people, I can’t see the justification for keeping someone locked away using taxpayer funds who has killed thousands… Not to mention the other nefarious activities large scale distributors tend to be involved in like human trafficking and arms dealing.
However I don’t think the execution should be public, that’ll screw some people (esp kids) up
For me to be okay with the death penalty, it’d have to be serious… Like Pablo Escobar subtypes
Jail + rifle +drugs= a very bad combination. 
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I’d like to state for the record that I’m against the death penalty but I don’t wanna get into any debates about it because it’s pretty pointless.
Was just venting in my previous post. Fuck, they should bring back the “broken on the wheel” shit for dealers. That would last longer and it’d be more fun to watch.
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I’m not against the death penalty for exceptional circumstances
And if you find one the suppliers at the tippy top (rare) who has made billions from the misery and suffering of others… Death penalty
But it’d need to be seriously extreme, like being in charge of 60% of the fentanyl that makes it into the US
@BrickHead is there a reason you brought up public hanging as opposed to lethal injection? Is that profile pic of yours new?
It’s a scary thought to think about what you would have looked like had you gone pro/decided to dabble in the saucy sauce. Perhaps you would have become Mr Olympia (classic physique)