This is an example of straw manning. We both simply said he is anti-degeneracy. That’s all. I know little about him and Russia.
Hahaha no. It’s smoke and mirrors for gullible Westerners and fake quote memes on social media.
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Well if you define it in the same sense he does of course. Much like everything else it’s all the right way if everyone believes and acts the exact same way.
But what if one were to be thrown in jail for your picture? Being almost completely naked and spending ungodly amounts of time in the gym? That’s pure degenerate behavior right there correct? I mean we can agree it’s certainly not normal. You and I would assume we have both lifted enough to know we aren’t like everyone else. Maybe you should be locked away for your perverted narcissistic lifestyle? Of course I don’t actually think this.
If nothing ever changed ever then those type of systems might be more appealing. If everyone was exact cookie cutter boring ass cutouts that’s a thought. But that’s not how people are. Everything people do can be considered abnormal in any sense and potentially bad.
OK, care to share why I should distrust him about this? You provide the evidence, I take away what I said.
Anecdotal evidence but the most sheltered kids I was raised around have had the most struggles as adults. That championed authoritarian upbringing? Didn’t hold up once they were out on their own.
Personally I think like all things a balance is appropriate. I’m not going to teach my kids that dangerous stuff isn’t out there and pretend it’s not real in the hopes they will never encounter it.
I don’t believe bodybuilding is perverted. Narcissistic for sure. And looking back I certainly wouldn’t have gotten involved to the extent that I did, even though I only did one show.
If it were consisted perverted and there were penalties for it where I was residing I’d have to make a decision.
There’s individuality amongst people. But certainly a code of conduct or moral code only works if the majority is on board with it, or it is imposed onto them. Norms are part of a society despite some bucking norms.
What evidence? Serious question.
Percentage of single mothers? Divorce rate? De facto legalization of domestic violence? A massive state funded mosque building program? Introduction of Sharia law in parts of the country?
https://news.ru/en/society/every-fifth-baby-in-russia-is-born-to-a-single-mother/
Most of the stuff you could put under the blanket term “anti degeneracy” comes from second hand propaganda sources tailored for a niche Western market.
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There you go. I flat-out said I know little about Russia and you provided me with evidence.
Yes, it was a serious question. I’m limited in knowledge… like everyone else is.
The key word here is believe. You don’t believe it is this. I don’t either. But it’s incredibly easy to come to that conclusion. You’re against porn but you’re ok with grown people being almost naked next to each other and judged on a stage? I think you get my point.
And we can trace back “degenerate” behavior for forever. It was degenerate for a black to marry a white. Degenerate for a woman to vote. Degenerate to not have a king. Etc.
Society changes over time and unless you want absolute control over everything it’s going to have differences on views.
Progress does not run counter to the idea of successful societies. Societies which were much more “conservative” depending on how we want to define have also failed. Was society better with slavery? You didn’t have high def porn. You didn’t have gay marriage. Usually those good old days everyone brings up certainly weren’t good for numerous amounts of people.
You’ve brought up theocracy in the past. But what if that theocracy changed from your views? What prevents that from happening even?
My apologies, legitimately not my intention.
Vladmir Putin is generally not regarded as being of good character.
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That’s exactly right and why I said the rest of what I said.
I consider your post laden with straw-manning and I predicted someone or you would mention one or more of the subject matter you did before it was written the farther we went along, as it usually does. The usual topics are brought up: slavery, gay marriage women’s’ rights, Islam, evil mustache men, etc. I believe they are brought up to gaslight, have the person cow or bamboozled, and leave me or someone with the inability to make a moral argument for anything.
I appreciate your responses but I don’t play that game.
I can assure you that wasn’t my intention. My intention was to show that behavior we view as perfectly normal can be construed as abnormal. Construed as unhealthy. And argued as bad for society. And “degenerate” behavior has long changed over time.
It’s not about trying to play any sort of game. I think they are legitimate points.
OK, I’ll accept that your points then, and that you genuinely stand by them. I apologize, despite seeing this topic through a different lens.
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I am apologizing here despite our different views. I am unsure if I came across snippy and I sincerely don’t feel well after being so.
All good. And I can assure you I wasn’t trying to say you agreed or wanted any of those things. Merely that I view we can trace back what was unacceptable behavior over time and see how it has changed. And I think many past “unacceptable” and “degenerate” behaviors we used to have are no longer seen that way and it is for the better.
Not to say that all change is always good no matter what. But many things you or I do that are accepted as normal and good may not be viewed that way in the future.
Hell doing what we’re doing right now could be seen as abnormal and arguably unhealthy or undesirable.
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Prior societal constructs can be composed of both positive and negative elements. One needn’t dismiss a perceived ideal from a past narrative merely because other admittedly abhorrent values/norms were present.
It should be noted I’m not against pornography, though I’m certainly not for it either. The industry is rifle with issues and ought to be subject to more stringent regulation as to ascertain all participants are kept safe. What’s more, I believe like many other vices a small minority of those who look at porn tend to develop a dependence of sorts.
I’m just pointing out one positive needn’t be dismissed entirely because one or more negatives are present within the same scenario. Isolate certain variables of which you find ideal from past societies, the framework we are implementing here isn’t steeped in realism; rather it’s a hypothetical. In a utopian ideal, what would your ideal society look like?
What @brickhead was stating is “certain elements of society were better before the sexual revolution”. He isn’t condoning slavery as a result of saying this, rather he is isolating specific variables and stating “things would be better off if this SPECIFIC variable from say… prior to the 1920’s was put in place now”. This is in no way, shape or form advocating for slavery, the abuse of women etc.
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There’s change in societies right, but there’s things that should never change. That’s why the founders of the USA wrote the constitution with inalienable rights. We don’t have that in Europe. Americans are/were free because government is limited. There’s lines it can’t overstep.
But this only works like the founders made clear “for a religious and moral people”. If people take rights without responsibility then rights get misused more and more. Soon you have the government stepping in to take away your rights.
Having a functional strong society depends on a government that is limited and people that are moral. Morality isn’t dictated by the government in a free country but it is championed by nearly everyone, that’s what we call culture. Values and norms held by a large group of people. An example would be the 10 commandments. If citizens of the United States or Europe can’t agree on these 10 things to be aspired to, then the country is bound to fail.
I don’t say there can’t be misbehavior as nobody is perfect but there should be a strong cultural incentive to not cheat, murder, fuck around, watch porn, get fat, be lazy, smoke, take recreational drugs, kick somebody in the face because they disagree, live off the taxes of other people and so on.
On a side note, Piers Morgan just got fired from his job in Britain because he said about the degenerate Meghan Markle “I don’t believe a word that comes out of her mouth”. And a government institution launched an investigation into him for offensive speech because of this sentence. There’s a reason America called itself the land of the free. Don’t let shit like this happen in your country, Americans.
Nah, current sociopolitical divides have people up in arms
“He’S a DeMoCrAt”
“ShE’s a RePuBliCaN”
Annnnnnnd stalemate
Politics IS the new religion. Especially the growing number of super woke and their executive arm “cancel culture” seem to fight a religious war. Also they are part of the people that champion the destruction of the family unit. If the family falls further there’s no country anymore.
So, since we are on the topic of behavioral and cultural problems, I’d like to put up the hypothesis that this is a function of population density.
If you look at the map of America and at the last election, one thing was the biggest standout. Every rural area in America even in the bluest of states (the only outlier was California) were red. What does that mean? It means that people living in denser areas are for bigger government and more regulation while people living on the country side want the government less involved in their lives.
This example shows something that has been shown time and time again: big cities and high population density gets people to want to regulate each others behavior but also that the behavior of those people becomes far different. The spectrum of accepted behaviors in cities is far greater than when people live at a healthy distance. There’s enough data to show that for example how many people are gay is partly a function of population density, as well as many other behavioral abnormalities. There’s studies in apes showing that if you increase the population density enough, more apes will become homosexual or rather indulge in homosexual behavior.
Also, people in places with high population density generally don’t give a shit about each other. I’m currently living in a small city. Nobody says hello besides the direct neighbors. Also if somebody screams in the middle of the street, people just walk on, not even looking. That’s why living in a city you want the government to regulate and handle that shit. You don’t want to handle it through community and culture but through the city’s institution. You want the city to get homeless people off the street as you don’t know them and don’t care about them. In a small country side town, there’s no homeless person, there’s community, there’s care for each other, there’s a sense of “We”.
That’s why the US as well as any other country doesn’t have a problem with blue vs red but a problem of cities vs towns. With the ever increasing part of the population living in cities, they can overpower any rural population at the ballot box. Gun laws that might make sense in cities will be instituted in rural areas where the next police station is 20 miles away. And so on. The question is how do you unite city people with country people?
Granted, living in the city is very unhealthy. This is not opinion. Air quality, food quality, nature for stress relief and so on are missing in bigger and bigger cities.