There are a few more studies, these were the most recent I could think of. Many rodent models have also been published. As rodents have different metabolic pathways/antioxidant profiles I generally take don’t find rodent models as credible, frequently rodent data doesn’t directly correlate with human data.
In vitro models indicate very high concentrations of AAS directly induce neuronal apoptosis. Proposed (one potential mechanism) to be via NDMA mediated excitotoxicity. Androgen receptors are abundantly present throughout the body, the brain is no exception to this rule.
The brain for a male generally doesn’t finish developing until 25, though there is discrepancy based upon individualistic genetic makeup as to exactly when ones brain will fully mature (some older, some younger). That being said, the majority of development happens during childhood/puberty. There’s a reason the drinking age is 18/21 and not 25-30.
Adolescents/young men on AAS are more prone to developing psychiatric abberations, as are adult men who use (but risk will be further elevated in youths using). The period of androgen induced hyperstimulus, the crash associated with coming off, neurological dysregulation associated with being on/coming off. Chances of HPTA recovery don’t differ based upon age, if anything someone whose natural testosterone production is at its peak would probably be more likely to adequately bounce back. Puberty is typically complete by around 16.
The biggest problem with youth and steroids imo is the reckless use/dosing and damage incurred. Most kids don’t think about heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease etc. They think about short term effects like gyno and hairloss, recklessly blast a truckload of tren while weighing 135lbs soaking wet and forget/dismiss the prospect of long term damage being induced. Recreational use of steroids/kids don’t mix, and honestly I’d argue the same rhetoric sticks for many adults too.
Puberty is a violatile enough time. I recently saw a study in Aus indicating 4.2% of boys in high school aged 14-16 had used steroids/were currently using. I found that statistic quite jarring, perhaps use is kept secret as I only knew one minor using steroids when I was in high school.
Why are you insinuating I don’t think smoking crack is a bad choice? Why on earth would I think smoking crack is a good decision to make?
Smoking crack, using methamphetamine, cocaine, tobacco, drinking, smoking cannabis are all bad decisions. I’d argue smoking crack is pretty high up on the “bad decisions” list someone can make.
I posted the wrong ones in my previous post. Both are using animal models. Can’t seem to find the right one. Sry.
I’m a little skeptical since I remember reading about how flawed these studies are since the kids didn’t know if they were talking about anabolic steroids or other kinds of steroids. Some dumb fuck in the steroid form was even insisting Rod Steward was on roids without knowing what prednisolone is.
Because you ask about these drugs and laws regarding them as though they are targeted to certain demographics instead of looking at the people who use the drugs and their behaviors.
Like choice never enters your picture.
No. I’m kinda chuckling as Im participating. I’m actually really curious about that.
I do believe choice plays an element. I also believe drugs are more likely to be abused by those down on their luck, those with mental health ailments, and those who have to deal with unfortunate/traumatising circumstances (abuse, violence and the likes).
As you’ve stated, someone doesn’t just pick up a crack pipe. It’s typically a slow descent. There does appear to be a pronounced shift in demeanour regarding a methamphetamine addict vs someone taking a pill for recreation, though I’d think the shift in demeanour is a byproduct of neurological dysregulation associated with methamphetamine addiction. I’m sure staying awake for seven days at a time doesn’t help either.
There is no excuse for violent/anti-social behaviour associated with intoxicants, penalties for robbery/murder whilst intoxicated needn’t differ from sober penalty for the same action.
I refer to specific demographics as data shows within Aus indigenous Australians (esp in NSW) are far more likely to end up with criminal records and/or doing time in relation to minor cannabis possession. The statistical discrepancy doesn’t add up. When you look at ten white men vs ten indigenous men arrested for cannabis possession (say 2 grams) a large portion of the indigenous men end up with notices for court, whereas Caucasian men are likely to get off with a fine and/or a diversion. I can’t foresee this statistical discrepancy being explained by simple differences in behaviour/attitude towards the police.
I do believe certain demographics are disproportionately targeted by the criminal justice system in Australia. In America I believe the same to be true, but I’m also aware of crime related statistics being significantly higher in neighbourhoods disproportionately targeted. I don’t think this is a byproduct of race as many seem to think, rather cultural attitudes present within these neighbourhoods may be to blame.
Yeah. I’m all for a more evenly handed application of the laws. I don’t see problems with application as valid reason to change a law though.
If it can be proven that there is some bias built into its intent, then sure, but that would require pretty explicit language like “possession by a black person/hilbilly/Latino should carry a penalty of X…” and that does not exist that I know of.
Polices mandated quotas for search warrants in indigenous populated NSW communities were found to be 4x the state average (crime rates are most certainly not 4x the state average)
Strip searches appear to disproportionately effect indigenous children/adolescents and young adults (upon indication by sniffer dog on public transport, on city streets etc). It should be noted there is video footage of officers forcing these dogs to sit and thus “detect” suspects.
Many of these searches, particuarly revolving around minors in public without an adult guardian present are highly illegal, but the government in power has refused to condemn this practice and the police commissioner went on record stating he’d want his kids to be searched that way if they were doing anything wrong.
An inquiry was eventually launched, the searches were found to be illegal. Police commissioner was quickly fired and the inquiry was dropped. New commissioner came in and the searches immediately started up again. They actually have a quota regarding how many strip searches to perform per year…
23% of those strip searched last year in NSW were indigenous, indigenous people make up for 2.9% of the states population. It’s a fucking joke man.
Should be noted rates of drug use for indigenous adults are 1.4x higher than non indigenous adults.
Perhaps his country is different? Where I used to live, the majority race hated us and the cops were mostly of that race. They purposefully fucked with us so much we respected the gangsters more than the cops.
But they hire really stupid cops. I went back a couple of years ago for Chinese New Year. Went to an open field to fire off some firecrackers. A cop car comes by and I give one dude $100 dollars. It’s illegal to use the kind of firecrackers we were using.
The dude is so estatic he slaps me on the shoulder, smiles and sits ON HIS CAR with his partner to watch the fireworks with us. I said I wanted to take a selfie with them while the fireworks were going off in the background and they agreed because they were so happy with the bribe.
Then I emailed it to every single police department in the state lol.
It wasn’t all that long ago (up until the 60s/70s) when the Australian government would forcibly remove indigenous children from their parents in a bid to try integrate the kids with “Australian culture”.
Children taken were coined children from the “stolen generations” and the operation is now thought by many to be an attempt at ethnic cleansing.
Reaching alloted quotes also may allow them to acquire more government issued funding “hey look, we had 40,000 strip searches this year. We need more dogs, more officers”. It’s meeting a quota for their own agenda and in my opinion has little to do with keeping the population safe. Public trust in the police is currently fairly low. Post covid 19 a poll was conducted in Victoria (not NSW). Only eleven percent of the Victorian populace view the Victorian police as an “ethical, honest” organisation and only around 40% approve of the Victorian police at all.
I don’t have a problem with police, I think society would be chaotic without them (look to townships in South Africa who use citizens to selectively apply be law through neighbourhood watch type congregations for example). But I don’t approve of many tactics used by the police here of which very blatantly only exist to raise revenue and may negatively effect others.
Hell in Victoria I think the courts recently determined police don’t have to hand over body cam footage in relation to trials regarding alleged police misconduct. What’s more, body cams in Victoria can be selectively turned off.
It’s been found the police have made MILLIONS through covid fines, of which they didn’t selectively apply with discretion. Drones were used for mass surveillance. There’s one video of police officers threatening two tired old women sitting on a bench with heavy fines if they don’t get up and move. Police have always been fine happy here, but they made absolute asses of themselves during lockdown.
Given how harsh the fines were here many fines are being contested in court.
I’ve been criticised for stating I can see the rationale behind defunding the police… but I think I get it. I’m not saying this to sound cool, woke or edgy, I can legitimately foresee why some would want to defund the police (at least here in Aus). In Australia the police are a very powerful organisation, they can/do get away with a lot (esp regarding any cases of alleged misconduct, domestic violence etc) and the whole department appears to exist with a cult like mentality wherein members seemingly protect one another if wrong doings are present. Fines aren’t applied with discretion and many tactics like roadblocks set up for cannabis testing, strip searching booths in public/sniffer dogs constantly out in public within NSW, drone surveillance, hidden mobile speed cameras on desolate roads appear to exist under the pretence of raising revenue.
Obviously one could argue for simply changing legislature, but if that isn’t plausible/foreseeable and tactics, especially practices that disproportionately appear to target indigenous Australians aren’t changed I can see the argument for reducing funds available to the police. It currently appears as if they have an abundance of resources to carry out super unimportant shit.
I’m not sure, say 20% of kids lift weights (unfortunate byproduct of a largely sedentary society). Whilst I said I only knew of one young guy on steroids, there were plenty who knew about steroids. There were quite a few kids thinking about running a cycle/a couple cycles to bulk up. @Unreal24278 actually convinced some of them not to. Every now and then you’ll get the typical smartass answer “but you see, I don’t give a fuck… blablablabla I’m so tough”. I’m not sure whether those who gave me these answers ever went through with it.
The “I don’t give a fuck” answer is the most irritating answer/justification I’ve heard from teenagers. It isn’t even a comprehensive answer. Tell me WHY you don’t care instead of trying to sound hard.
I get the health risks. And I think educating people is important, in as much as it can be done. Because, as they say, ‘you can lead a horse to water…’ I.E. it doesn’t mean people will listen or care when someone is talking about the dangers.
My main concern is the draconian measures that Australia has adopted. I value liberty and will error on freedom of choice versus security especially when it comes to the choice of putting a harmful substance in your body.
And you have to think why are they banning the use of some and not others? I mean, drinking bleach is extremely harmful, but I am sure that’s legal. So I am not convinced these measures are done out of care for people’s well-being. It seems more like a power grab.
Given what has been described here, with the roadblock testing and now your government locking things down until 2022. It just sounds to me you will not get your liberty back, ever. For by 2022, who’s going to fighting for liberty after it’s been gone for 2 years and you managed to survive.
It’s not my country, but I am deeply saddened by what’s been going on there. It sounds to me like woke culture, identitarianism and critical race and gender theory are becoming the law of the land. And predictably, it’s not pretty. It makes me really sad because I loved the place when I was there. I realize we are talking in the margins here, but I couldn’t imagine a cocaine road block here. Hell, they’d need a Walmart parking lot to host the now abandoned cars from the arrestees. I bet every other person would be arrested.
Hell, when we ended up in King’s Cross I was openly offered heroin and a hooker, politely. I didn’t know at the time we were in the red light district. I smoked at the time and I could fire up anywhere I wanted. I won enough money at the casino to pay for our room, I felt more free, there at the time. Hell, I could buy the equivalent of what we call ‘Tylenol #3’ over the counter. I didn’t realize it, until I had a headache and took the meds and then felt excellent and went and looked at the package. I was like, ‘This is awesome! I love this place!’ Now it seems like it’s all gone. Everything I loved about the place, save for it’s natural beauty, which is spectacular, is gone.
Look up Sydney lockout laws, kings cross is pretty much dead at this point. Things have changed a lot over the past 15-20 years. Sydney’s harsh lockout laws were revoked recently after it effectively killed all nightlife within the city… with one exception, they were to remain in kings cross.
It appears the lockout laws in the end has less to do with public health and more to do with gentrification.
As to Tylenol + codiene being purchased otc. That was banned about a year back (for good reason btw, people were abusing the shit out of it). Dihydrocodiene in cough syrup is still otc at a pharmacists discretion. Hell man, melatonin requires a prescription here. As do typically otc meds like DHEA, yohimbine etc. They’re classifying pre-workout in line with anabolic steroids now alongside many other supplements that aren’t regulated anywhere else.
A few days back the Australian government banned hentai. I’ve only watched hentai once, it disturbed me. I’m not into that, but I don’t think it’s appropriate for the government to dictate what porn I watch so long as animals/children aren’t involved… another step in the wrong direction. Also interesting as Aussie culture is generally quite progressive when it comes to sex, some pornographic magazines only incur a 15+ age restriction from what I recall.
It’s interesting that the government seems to think banning physical copies of hentai will impact the demographic watching during the digital age. I suppose this is what we get when we elect an extremely religious PM who practically denies the existence of climate change. Now the ADF has been spending time seizing physical copies of Hentai and/or adult anime because they’ve… got nothing better to do?
Good luck smoking cannabis in Sydney now, a very heavy police presence + sniffer dogs all over the place will ensure you’re arrested rather quickly. Hell they’ve got sniffer dogs on the trains, booths set up for strip searching outside of train stations etc.
It should be noted much of this current agenda in NSW is a byproduct of the conservative government in power (catering towards authoritative rule as opposed to libertarianism). The government isn’t authoritarian in nature, it just caters more toward authoritative rule.
As to prostitution, sex work is legal and regulated in Aus, though street prostitution is strictly forbidden.
Lockout laws were implemented under the guise of an effort to curb alcohol fuelled violence, and whilst effective for this purpose (and attracting a new demographic of retirees to live in Sydney) they decimated tourism/nightlife within Sydney. Even without the lockout laws, rampant policing, extensive nanny state rules have garnered Sydney a reputation as being “boring”. It should also be noted effective is subjective as rates of assault decreased in Sydney/kings cross, but assault/violent crime increased in neighbourhoods surrounding Sydney.
For what you’re describing your best bet would be Melbourne (nightlife, fun vibes, partying, mild heroin problem), though Melbourne has effectively been shut down for the past nine months due to covid-19. I’m not sure if businesses in the city will be able to adequately bounce back after such a prolonged shutdown. Given Australia has shut its borders to tourism and won’t let citizens leave, let alone allow interstate travel I actually don’t know how we are going to bounce back at all (economically). Our country has racked up tremendous amounts of debt and in return we’ve managed to keep relatively coronavirus free. It probably beats what’s going on in the USA, but our measures are absolutely draconian. And there appears to be this sense of state nationalism going on wherein all stages are trying to one up each other, politicising the issue and keeping state borders shut for as long as possible. It’s not helping anyone
Why the fuck is WA still shutting its borders off from the NT… they’ve had like zero cases over the past month. The logic “they could bring in a case” doesn’t add up
We aren’t locking things down til 2022, just international borders (which in itself is too far, we are the only secular democratic country that has barred citizens leaving). With exemption one can leave, and people are being denied exemptions to go to parents funerals, visit sick relatives etc. it appears only 30% of exemptions are being granted. But hey, if you are a billionaire or a political figure it appears automatic exemption is granted.
I don’t like our current government in power at all. Coronavirus handling was superb aside from the Andrews governments botched handling of hotel quarantine… but I really don’t like Scott Morrison, esp his handling of the recent bushfires, his “forced handshake” with residents of fire torn communities and his reliance on the coal industry/open support of policies that irreparably damage the environment. In terms of enacting any positive change regarding climate policy in Australia he is about the worst president we could possibly have.
Australia needs to heed warning that times are changing. Over reliance on fossil fuels could prove to be our downfall. Tbh I don’t think Australia is in a particuarly good place right now.
That’s funny and also crazy (but, let’s face it, true… alcoholics have a higher chance of being functional)…were you able to stay of the heroin from then on, just with booze? I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that working.
Incidentally, I appreciate all your posts on the topic of drugs and rehab. You’ve been down the road and come back, and I think that’s more helpful than most “therapy” when you know friends struggling.
Honestly full HPTA recovery is not abnormal if use is acute/not constant. It just takes a while, which is often not what people want to wait.
This is the joy of active site binding affinities. Almost all steroids are very close in structure, but effects may differ drastically. This is one reason I am not a fan of designer “pro-hormones”, since there is absolutely no binding data and no kinetic data (or only very limited), and companies are essentially betting that they’ll make bank in the few months they have before being taken down by regulators. The effect of side chains (cypionate, enanthate, prop, etc) is somewhat predictable but changing the primary 4 ring structure in new ways is harder to predict.
I do think that the impending “age of machine learning” will help with prediction quality, since computing power is rising exponentially. But until that happens it’s all a guess.
Not sure which this is in reference to, but DHEA is an intermediate between pregnenolone and androgens in androgen synthesis pathways.
Positions are numbered (roughly) from leftmost to rightmost rings, so the “1” position is the 12 o’clock spot on the left most ring.
Wouldn’t entirely matter, since the brain doesn’t fully mature until the early or mid twenties.
I would say “not a whole lot of data” is somewhat of an understatement lol. Neurotoxicity is very difficult to pin down with steroids and I don’t think the effects are likely to be serious. Many, many things are “neurotoxic”, but due to turnover rates and microglial cell functions we almost never see permanent damage. The CNS and particularly the brain is extremely resilient. There are many damage control and recovery mechanisms that are not fully accounted for in in vitro studies. Or for that matter in vivo studies. It is one of the difficulties of the field.
It cracks me up too. I wouldn’t think I was capable of those types of gymnastics, but there I went with it!
On how that worked:
Eh, not really well. I’d get saturated with booze and sorta drifted back to lesser opiates like vicodin and percs. My neighbor used to like to ply me with pills and booze and stuff then take advantage of me , which I didn’t really mind because she was pretty hot.
I hope your friend turns out ok. An addict or substance abuser may put themselves through hell, but it’s the people around them who suffer.
My friend is a meth addict. He went clean for about 18 months, but relapsed trying to help an old friend from drug days in the same situation. He’s a legitimately good man, but meth is a butcher.
He’s currently in a faith based halfway house (about an hour away from me with highly limited contact permissions, but as far as I know clean for about 8 months again). I know enough to keep from getting taken advantage of, but it sucks of course. I know the desperate fight but the insights from your posts are helpful.
, which I didn’t really mind because she was pretty hot.