[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
This is article is so stupid, I want to take a gun and shoot the writer of this article in his fucking face, seriously.
[/quote]
You’re a cretin whose opinion means nothing.
You aren’t intelligent enough to understand anything so you must resort to violence like a typical schoolyard bully.
Get lost you fucking maggot.
[quote]Did it ever occur to you that Russia needed to prevent people from fleeing socialist freedom by force whereas America has a hard time keeping potential “wage slaves” out?
Something does not compute. [/quote]
And this was for like what, 10-15 years during Stalin’s reign? And after this point Russia had problems with visa over stayers and illegal immigrants just like here.
I’m intelligent enough to be disgusted when people paint the world in these black and white Cold War colors. It disgusts me to the point of hyperbole.
Whites were enslaved?
[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
America only had institutionalized slavery for non-indigenous peoples. That doesn’t count. Surely, you might see that?
Whites were enslaved?[/quote]
No, whites became indigenous after conquering and populating the continent through hundreds of years. America was their creation.
[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that Russia needed to prevent people from fleeing socialist freedom by force whereas America has a hard time keeping potential “wage slaves” out?
Something does not compute.
And this was for like what, 10-15 years during Stalin’s reign? And after this point Russia had problems with visa over stayers and illegal immigrants just like here.
[/quote]
This happened as long as the Iron curtain existed.
People were shot trying to flee East Germany as late as 1989 and Germany was the poster child of Warsaw pact states.
They are dying now trying to flee North Korea and Cuba.
Meanwhile even semi capitalist nations in Europe and America are having problems keeping them out.
Why is that?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
This is article is so stupid, I want to take a gun and shoot the writer of this article in his fucking face, seriously.
You’re a cretin whose opinion means nothing.
You aren’t intelligent enough to understand anything so you must resort to violence like a typical schoolyard bully.
Get lost you fucking maggot.[/quote]
Was wondering when you were going to respond to this.
But are we to expect anything else? Look at his name, Spetsnaz. Russian Special Forces. All he knows is violence and brutality.
[quote]This happened as long as the Iron curtain existed.
People were shot trying to flee East Germany as late as 1989 and Germany was the poster child of Warsaw pact states. [/quote]
The German thing, is the German thing. There were all sorts of political and economic reasons why people fled East to West. However, this is more analagous to the modern situation between North and South Korea, than it is to some international exodus from socialist states.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Were Soviet Russians ever running the border into Finland? Or from boats from Vladivostok to the promised land of Alaska?
North Korea & Cuba can’t even be classified in the same category. North Korea IS a totalitarian regime that is 1000x worse than Nazi Germany at it’s height in wonton human abuse. Cuba on the other hand, has some if not many people who ant to flee because of the country’s political & economic isolation that cripples its economy and opportunities for growth. Most of the defects you find are uneducated, lazy people, who don’t excel in the Cuban educational system, or, people who value the incredible monetary gain one might have in fleeing the nation (athletes especially.)
There are also many (if not the majority) patriotic Cubans who love their country, and would never leave. Believe me, I come from a country where many of the medical professionals are Cuban citizens living abroad there, and they are proud Cubans and believe in working for the greater good of mankind, instead of monetary profit.
I think you’re reaching pretty far here. There are a 100 more holes in the above stated article that I can expose, if I had the time or the reason to. It seems people who take this article seriously are about as deluded as North Korean Communist drones, so why even bother?
Versus America’s Benevolent & Peaceful Special Forces?
[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
This happened as long as the Iron curtain existed.
People were shot trying to flee East Germany as late as 1989 and Germany was the poster child of Warsaw pact states.
The German thing, is the German thing. There were all sorts of political and economic reasons why people fled East to West. However, this is more analagous to the modern situation between North and South Korea, than it is to some international exodus from socialist states.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Were Soviet Russians ever running the border into Finland? Or from boats from Vladivostok to the promised land of Alaska?
They are dying now trying to flee North Korea and Cuba.
North Korea & Cuba can’t even be classified in the same category. North Korea IS a totalitarian regime that is 1000x worse than Nazi Germany at it’s height in wonton human abuse. Cuba on the other hand, has some if not many people who ant to flee because of the country’s political & economic isolation that cripples its economy and opportunities for growth. Most of the defects you find are uneducated, lazy people, who don’t excel in the Cuban educational system, or, people who value the incredible monetary gain one might have in fleeing the nation (athletes especially.)
There are also many (if not the majority) patriotic Cubans who love their country, and would never leave. Believe me, I come from a country where many of the medical professionals are Cuban citizens living abroad there, and they are proud Cubans and believe in working for the greater good of mankind, instead of monetary profit.
I think you’re reaching pretty far here. There are a 100 more holes in the above stated article that I can expose, if I had the time or the reason to. It seems people who take this article seriously are about as deluded as North Korean Communist drones, so why even bother?[/quote]
Why did Olympic athletes and musicians make a run for it when they could?
After all, they could have just left?
A large number of Soviet Jews applied for exit visas to leave the Soviet Union, especially in the period following the 1967 Six-Day War. While some were allowed to leave, many were refused permission to emigrate, either instantly or their case could languish for years in the OVIR (Ð?Ð?иР, “Ð?Ñ?дел Ð?из и РегиÑ?Ñ?Ñ?аÑ?ии”, “Otdel Viz i Registratsii”, English: Office of Visas and Registration), the MVD department responsible for provisioning of exit visas. In many instances, the reason was given that these persons had been given access at some point in their careers to information vital to Soviet national security and could not now be allowed to leave.[3]
During the Cold War, Soviet Jews were presumed a security liability or possible traitors.[4] To apply for an exit visa, the applicants (and sometimes their entire families) often had to quit their jobs, which in turn would make them vulnerable to charges of social parasitism, a criminal offense.[3]
Many Jews encountered institutional antisemitism which blocked their opportunities for advancement. Some government sectors were almost entirely off-limits to Jews.[4][5] In addition, Soviet restrictions on religious education and expression prevented Jews from engaging in Jewish cultural and religious life. While these restrictions led many Jews to seek to emigrate,[6] requesting an exit visa was itself seen as an act of betrayal by Soviet authorities. Thus, prospective emigrants requested permission to emigrate at great risk, knowing that an official refusal would often be accompanied by dismissal from work and other forms of social ostracism and economic pressure.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…the problem i have with unchecked capitalism is that you’ll end up with only a handfull of huge corporations that will rule the marketplace. There will be no competitors, and those who are of the same size won’t compete with eachother; instead they make price agreements or form cartels…
…when every media outlet is controled by those corporations they’ll own the consumer. What i find so hard to understand about this is why orion and his ilk can’t see that ultimately we’ll end up with a totalitarian state governed by corporations. They may trust a system, i trust humans to be humans…[/quote]
If you are right (which I seriously doubt), you should consider the capitalism approach gives you the citizen the greatest amount of choices and personal opportunity given your level of ambition.
Sure their will always be large corporate giants who appear to own the market but we have seen more companies in the past ten years emerge through innovation than ever before. These companies are in NON REGULATED fields of busienss. Areas that government heavily regulates, such as energy & banking, have the least amount of innovation, product development, and R&D.
…you only need to reach the masses. Control the masses, and you control the nation…
[quote]During the Cold War, Soviet Jews were presumed a security liability or possible traitors.[4] To apply for an exit visa, the applicants (and sometimes their entire families) often had to quit their jobs, which in turn would make them vulnerable to charges of social parasitism, a criminal offense.[3]
Many Jews encountered institutional antisemitism which blocked their opportunities for advancement. Some government sectors were almost entirely off-limits to Jews.[4][5] In addition, Soviet restrictions on religious education and expression prevented Jews from engaging in Jewish cultural and religious life. While these restrictions led many Jews to seek to emigrate,[6] requesting an exit visa was itself seen as an act of betrayal by Soviet authorities. Thus, prospective emigrants requested permission to emigrate at great risk, knowing that an official refusal would often be accompanied by dismissal from work and other forms of social ostracism and economic pressure.[/quote]
This is just propaganda like most anti-semitic sob stories. The Communist Party at its founding was 3/4 Jewish, Stalin was a Jew, and most of the gov’t officals that ran away with billions from the treasury at the collapse, were Jews. If Jews were so oppressed, why did they run shyt in the Soviet Union? Where was this blocking for advancement? These assertions are ridiculous. In one instance they say they were denied VISAs because of the fact they controlled positions of high gov’t import, and then two seconds later it says they were denied of positions of high government import. That makes -ZERO- sense.
You can believe the Israeli propaganda, but I’m not buying it.
[quote]orion wrote:Because we get more corporations, not less each year and the idea that media conglomerates might rule us while most traditional news media struggle to survive is preposterous.
Meanwhile governments DO rule us.[/quote]
…keep on dreaming boy, of your capitalist utopia and freemarket paradise. It’ll never happen…
[quote]orion wrote:No but there is no unchecked greed.
But if you divert power to politicians greed suddenly disappears…
And then you have , mwuahahaha, democratic, snicker, contro…
No I cannot even post that as satire.
I prefer the liberty of voting with my wallet.
[/quote]
…capitalism is founded on greed, without it it has no purpose. Remove all checks and balances from a system that’s already rife with self-gratification upto the point of absurdity, and you’ve created a lobsided monster. A monster i tell you!
[quote]RJK wrote:
ephrem wrote:
…the problem i have with unchecked capitalism is that you’ll end up with only a handfull of huge corporations that will rule the marketplace. There will be no competitors, and those who are of the same size won’t compete with eachother; instead they make price agreements or form cartels…
…when every media outlet is controled by those corporations they’ll own the consumer. What i find so hard to understand about this is why orion and his ilk can’t see that ultimately we’ll end up with a totalitarian state governed by corporations. They may trust a system, i trust humans to be humans…
If you are right (which I seriously doubt), you should consider the capitalism approach gives you the citizen the greatest amount of choices and personal opportunity given your level of ambition.
Sure their will always be large corporate giants who appear to own the market but we have seen more companies in the past ten years emerge through innovation than ever before. These companies are in NON REGULATED fields of busienss. Areas that government heavily regulates, such as energy & banking, have the least amount of innovation, product development, and R&D.
[/quote]
…i’m not advocating communism or socialism in the oldskool way, instead i think that a semi-free market, where government oversees sensitive areas like finance and keep multinationals reigned in, is a good thing. It’s people on this board who oppose this mix, as if any hint of socialism is abhorrent, who seem to believe that there’s only one way, one right and just way. That is why i likened this attitude to religion, because there’s little room for the middle way…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
orion wrote:No but there is no unchecked greed.
But if you divert power to politicians greed suddenly disappears…
And then you have , mwuahahaha, democratic, snicker, contro…
No I cannot even post that as satire.
I prefer the liberty of voting with my wallet.
…capitalism is founded on greed, without it it has no purpose. Remove all checks and balances from a system that’s already rife with self-gratification upto the point of absurdity, and you’ve created a lobsided monster. A monster i tell you! [/quote]
Free markets are based on fear and greed. Greed can be a good thing.
[quote]RJK wrote:
ephrem wrote:
orion wrote:No but there is no unchecked greed.
But if you divert power to politicians greed suddenly disappears…
And then you have , mwuahahaha, democratic, snicker, contro…
No I cannot even post that as satire.
I prefer the liberty of voting with my wallet.
…capitalism is founded on greed, without it it has no purpose. Remove all checks and balances from a system that’s already rife with self-gratification upto the point of absurdity, and you’ve created a lobsided monster. A monster i tell you!
Free markets are based on fear and greed. Greed can be a good thing.
[/quote]
Capitalism is a -FAIL-, any form of unchecked Capitailsm will create disgusting unliveable societies, if you ever read any of the early writings on Capitalism, ala Adam Smith, Galiani, Ricardo, and the like. You will find a system that favors a handful for their birth in society and not their productive capacity.
If you think the society we live in is an indicator of what real capitalism looks like, you’re dreaming. If we unleashed the market and corporations to do what they wanted, you’d be back to a society of sub 1920s level. How does your little sister working as a seamstress 20 hours a day at 7 years old sound? Getting fucked by a grown man manager, and if she peeps, she won’t get her $40 dollar a month paycheck. Oh no, you say? It’s not like that anymore? You just don’t think it is, because popular revolutions in America got the industry by the balls, and now we live more just lives, while this same exploitation I’m talking about has simply been exported to the third world.
I don’t see how any can say the Capitalism creates Justice and Socialism creates Injustice, it’s maddening. Capitalism’s only saving grace was Keynes, his assertions have really shaped the world we live in today, yet all these people seem to say ‘Keynesian’ as if its a bad word, just like ‘liberal,’ as if there were something wrong with freedom. Notice these ‘loaded’ words? You don’t think our information and politically environment is manipulated and controlled by wealthy oligarchs? You’re dreaming.
If you think believing in the market, and supporting the big corporations makes you right, think about this… Do the big corporations believe in the market, and American elbow-grease economics? Fuck no. They are twisting and wring out the government dry to dump your tax money into their pockets, is that the Capitalism you were looking for? They don’t believe in Capitalism, they believe in enriching themselves by any means necessary.
[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
But are we to expect anything else? Look at his name, Spetsnaz. Russian Special Forces. All he knows is violence and brutality.
Versus America’s Benevolent & Peaceful Special Forces?[/quote]
Who said I was a fan of our special forces? I have great respect for individuals that fight with honor, nobility, et al but no respect for the government they serve. I dont respect the patch they wear, I respect the individual men who wear it nobly.
And so noone in Russian Spec Ops does this? Which makes you think I’m brutal and violent… You lost me.