I don’t think you’re a hyper responder. 250/week is a high dose. I took a peak reading 4-5 hours after just 10mg prop and 50mg cream and that had me near 1600.
Is there a way to delete a thread? This is beyond pointless. It’s been hijacked to death.
it was like 1580ng/dl
Not really, and I don’t think Chris would advocate deleting it. The initial posts are still here, as is the callout
I’ll attempt to recalibrate the thread again
When literature is brought forth, it can alter the ideologies another party may harbour. Scientific literature conflicts/tends to be rather fluid. If you’ve got a certain pattern of thinking that the mass disagree with, there’s probably some body of literature out there… somewhere that agrees with you. At the very least find that and post it to back up you’re argument, especially if asked for a source/to back up said pattern of thinking.
The thread doesn’t need to be, and shouldn’t be, derailed further. If you’re not discussing Systemlord and his advice, take it to a new thread.
Tangents happen naturally, but they’re a slippery slope to full-blown hijacks.
To come back on-topic, I think I’ve been pretty clear in my opinion that systemlord should reconsider giving out such an abundance of advice as his own personal health is is such dire need of improvements while he chooses to spend minimal effort to improve his situation.
That, to me, is at least on par with whatever questionable content he may be dispensing. 10-20 posts per day giving people advice, 35 posts over the last 4 months in a thread discussing his own problems. Internet-physician, heal thyself.
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It just keeps going from him in his latest comment:
"We don’t need proof, I have real life experiences. @dbossa wants everyone to believe because he can handle higher E2 that everyone can without symptoms and this is silly.
I feel better with E2 between 25-35, I imagine you want proof or I must be spewing nonsense."
We don’t need proof or evidence anymore. Wonderful advice. Let’s all follow the anecdotal evidence of a demonstrated outlier who is sick, obese, and riddled with health issues. His situation itself makes it impossible to even know ‘what feels better’ by very definition.
How long are we putting up with this?
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@dbossa
Banning can be a slippery slope. It starts off with people that many agree with so they look the other way but over time your friends start disappearing then your family and one night there’s a knock on the door and the Gulag is asking for you.
I know it sucks and it’s time consuming but it’s not always a bad thing to have someone say something blatantly false and then be corrected by 10 other people. You could always make a thread of quoted false posts with a correct answer under it that you can link to every time that person says something completely false. That way you don’t have to type it out each time they say it.
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@dbossa I am new but a long time reader.
This is a public forum. I come here to read all opinions and experiences. I in particular like experiences.
I use what I read here what I research and talking to my Dr to make treatment decisions.
We should not shut someone up because you don’t agree with them. Then you are left with a mob that repeat the same shit.
And we know that what we learn to be right today with trt may not be in the future
So it is the experiences people are having that I find most important not regurgitated info that people read online.
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@trtwuzup
The problem is the statements being said are harmful, incorrect and being posted 30 times a day by someone who is having extreme health issues. @dbossa is not wrong in wanting that to end.
That’s a good point. That’s why we need some stickies that provide concrete info.
If system Lord sticks to giving his experiences that is fine. I was on another forum and spent a a good amount of time countering someone like systemlord. It is so frustrating you end up leaving a good forum.
He should have a disclaimer that gives all his medical conditions . His experience are probably not common.
I am anti ai. As I was initially led to believe that I needed my e2 in the low 20s. I was an AI for a couple of months. Worst time ever could never dial in.
Btw I’ve been on trt for a bit over 2 years.
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I’m getting close to that point
Hang in there.
You should not give opinions on mathematics right?. Medicine is a science and progress is built on science. My mother in law suggest me to put toothpaste on my skin when it get burn. True story. She gives her best advice but if I do that it will cause me harm. @dbossa can be sometimes rough but his point is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. If you give a medical advice you should be a medical doctor or base the advice on official medical papers. FULL STOP
The issue is that Danny‘s advice is frequently also based on bro science and either incorrect or at least not precise. He gives out anecdotal advice - acknowledged in collaboration with some physicians - but he is selling it as if there is unequivocally proof by rigorous science. And that very often simply not the fact.
Two examples
- The topic of how the reference ranges are established is just one example.
- While the general use of AI is not encouraged, he doesn’t seem to understand that the proof of harm from blocking estrogen to (almost) 0 isn’t necessary applicable to the question whether very high levels are good or bad. It can’t be extrapolated and there is no proof whatsoever that supraphysiological E2 levels along with supraphysiological T levels are good or bad. It’s just unknown. it’s the awareness of limitations of the data at hand what I miss in his comments.
And I am not saying at all that I am enjoying reading systemlords comments…
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I’ve extrapolated upon the notion of which states the harmonized ref ranges seen in the studies you’ve linked don’t correlate to what the labs ACTUALLY use
No method of assay will come up with a male ref range of 100-500 or 60-560 etc… I don’t care about assay method, a 300% variation beteween cutoff points (which you’ll see frequently via comparisons between bloods people post) cannot be explained via assay differentiation alone
Many labs still use ref ranges with values compiled absent of any clinical consideration
Dr Grant makes that point. We don’t know what higher levels of anything while on TRT will have as an effect long term. The issue is that aromatase is a self regulating mechanism. Why interfere? People think that taking an AI simply lowers estrogen in the serum and that couldn’t be further from the truth. If you know there are varying levels everywhere in the body and have no idea how much the AI will block it and where then why block it at all? Everyone is making the decision to block it based on serum levels which is ridiculous seeing as how it is a paracrine hormone. To view it as the same way as when we measure testosterone which, again, couldn’t be further from the truth.
This is a public forum. If anyone thinks they are getting medical advice… Even if said person claims to be a Dr.
And I believe many of us come here because we do in fact get medical advice from DOCTORS that know not much about trt. So we want guys experiences not necessarily advice. There’s some personal responsibility if a member come in here thinking they can make treatment decisions based on a random person on the Internet.
Again members should used the knowledge gained here as a only a piece to understanding trt and getting a real md to treat. This is complicated stuff.
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Would you give opinions on industrial engineering?. I get your point, but medicine is quite complex and with so many variables. My body doesnt react as yours, for many reasons. You should not always extrapolate experiences. The best way to have consensus is with proper studies and trials. You are totally right about each ones responsibilities but what if you are having a bad day and believe someone that gave you a horrible advice?. Wouldnt it be nice if the community builds some safety nets for you?. I mean, nobody here is forbidding you to say what you want, but thank god there are plenty of intelligent guys here preventing big mistakes. Callouts are healthy and I hope to be corrected as well If I give a misleading advice.
I have a bse and mse in industrial engineering and operations research. I welcome anyone’s opinion, but it’s also the greyest of the engineering sciences. Now if you said electrical engineering, I would shut my mouth and sit quietly.
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Same here. Ive used huge doses, libido dead. Very very small dosages = libido is back.
I talked to one of the most well respected endos in Sweden about it last week, he is an old grumpy man in his 70s and have been helping swedish bodybuilders thruout his life.
He said this: “Ive noticed thruout the years that some men, especially those with very masculine features, tend to hyper respond to androgens, so they need very little. If you give them too much, they will get side effects of low libido and anxiousness” - Well thats me.
The fact is that there are men out there - me included - who do not do very well on high dosages, we do WAY BETTER on small dosages.
Dbossa needs to chill the fuck down, I kinda like the dude but he is like a woman some times, so emotional and so much drama, what the fuck u wanna ban systemlord cause he is of another OPINION of you? Jesus fucking christ man get your shit together. This is a public forum, not gulag where you are the ruler and decide whats the truth or not.
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