You’re still taking Lantus though right? If synthetic insulin is the only thing you can take because you’re you’ve had uncontrolled type 2 diabetes for so long… so be it. I’d make a joke about potentially abusing it for gains… but don’t do that, it’s incredibly dangerous…
Though getting glucose tolerance under control will help tremendously with gainnzzz in the gym
It’s been said before a lack of evidence for harm doesn’t mean the same thing as no harm, there are no long term studies of men on TRT with supraphysiological estrogen levels.
No, but there are meta analysis/reviews that come to the conclusion that higher estradiol is associated with higher degrees patient satisfaction.
Yes I am still on Lantus and check my glucose 4x daily, before meals and maybe 3-4 hours after a meal.
Fantastic mate, I’m glad to hear things are finally looking up for you
Hit the gym, do cardio. If I recall you’re like 5’11, 230-240 and 30% BF… that pegs you’re FFMI as being decent, meaning if you were to successfully cut down you wouldn’t look half bad (assuming you preserve you’re muscle mass during said cut)
Testosterone and estrogen have been studied for over 80 years. There is nothing that demonstrates harm. There are only benefits. When there is evidence of harm, we can rethink our position. Currently there is none. Telling people with a free T of 25 that their dose is too high and need to lower it is doing them a disservice.
I just wish we could focus our time providing information based on evidence instead of constantly having to explain why something is simply bro-science. Then people are forced to choose which one is correct, based on which person was more ‘persuasive’ instead of based on actual evidence. It’s tiresome.
@unreal24278 this has nothing to do with mob mentality bullying. I know what bullying is as I was bullied as a child all the way past high school due to skipping a grade in school. This isn’t just picking on someone for no reason because they are weak. This is calling out something that is demonstrably wrong. Information that adults are using to figure out things for themselves. This isn’t kindergarten or the playground sandbox. This is ‘back up your claims with evidence, as a responsible adult, or stop sharing information that you cannot demonstrate’. There IS a difference. @systemlord could potentially be the nicest human being to ever walk the face of the earth. I’m not defaming him or insulting his character. I am calling out a constant, incorrect, and demonstrably false source of information to find some way to ensure this does not continue to occur.
There is a BIG difference.
I toned down the thread title because I don’t want a genius kid from down under pissed off at me 
But not of men on TRT, natural men with natural levels of testosterone and estrogen. This is where I have a problem with your statement. There are NO long term studies of men on TRT with estrogen levels 60>.
We are in uncharted territory and you are riding your horse in the new land you haven’t yet explored long enough saying there’s no danger. One of these days you might actually have to eat your words.
You don’t know what you don’t know.
You can’t raise T and not expect E2 to follow to maintain that very balance that you harp on. Balance is the whole point. Don’t touch estrogen. Get your T to optimal levels to resolve symptoms. Estrogen will fall where it needs to, in a BALANCE. You keep trying to do things with estrogen as the bad guy, in an effort to alter it, and THIS will affect the balance.
Not to mention, the very fact that estradiol is a paracrine hormone, which was discussed at length during last week’s video, with evidence provided, demonstrates how unbelievably silly it is to even measure it as you are only seeing a tiny fraction of the amount that is leaking into the serum from the tissue. There are different amounts in different areas of the body. Blocking it, even a little bit, is nuts. Raising estrogen directly will throw off the balance so this is not recommended. You attain healthy levels of estrogen by raising T.
Do you always fear things that you have no evidence to fear? How does one live like that? If I was to fear every crazy thing that my imagination can concoct I’d go mad. I’ll be cautious of something that can be demonstrated. In the meantime, my health has improved multiple times over. Immediate, demonstrable, and measurable benefits across the board. No sign of anything to fear so far and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
You can’t expect the body to always create homeostasis otherwise everyone could take the same dosage.
I prefer to exercise prudence.
Remember because our levels never drop low, we will aromatase more than if we were natural. When your testosterone drops, your estrogen drops with it, not so on TRT. If anything I have more estrogen injecting daily than I ever did naturally, yet I’m not afraid.
You can. Everyone’s optimal T level will vary. The body will maintain the balance of estrogen that it required to have. We have plenty of literature that demonstrates lowering estrogen, which increases the ratio between the two, is a bad idea.
I’m not pissed off at you, I believe you consistently provide constructive, thoughtful advice towards those in need.
Yet one needs to remember there are those who will disagree with you or I regarding dosages, protocols etc. The truth is, the verdict is still out regarding the long term impacts of hormonal ‘optimization’.
It’s well known 200mg test weekly elicits a net 10-15% drop in HDL cholesterol for most (600mg elicits a statistical avg of a 25-30% drop)… aside from the cardiac implications (androgen concentration and potential correlation with LVM, blood coagulation etc), what long term impact does a drop in HDL cholesterol (even if small) have regarding long term atherogenesis. A doctor makes an oath “do know harm” and thus weighs out the benefits vs risks before dispensing a protocol/meds. The majority, even if the increase in long term MI risk is only 5-10%… will still refuse to prescribe such a therapy on the basis of “it increases X risk factor”. I can showcase data indicating 200mg test weekly for 4 wks induced alterations (not significant) within cardiac parameters, it probably stalls out over time, but how deleterious would the morphological alteration be after say, twenty years of prolonged use?
Obviously there are exceptions, such as those who are gravely ill, but to prescribe higher dosages to differentiate between “feeling ok” and “feeling fantastic” with the prospect of cutting a couple years off you’re life? It goes against what many doctors will feel is morally acceptable. You may disagree with such ideology, I may disagree with it too… this doesn’t change the fact that the medical community generally tends to be very conservative.
Perhaps things will change down the line, but at this current point a generalisation can be made that the medical community, the endocrine society etc tends to abide by incredibly, incredibly conservative guidelines
I agree with you regarding some of the advice systemlord dispenses, it’s frequently without scientific merit or understanding of the basic pharmacokinetics/pharmacological effect pertaining to numerous hormones. That being said, he isn’t trying to hurt anyone, nor does he bear any facetious intent
I need to make something very, very clear.
There is a diffenece between someone who has found the minimal dose required to resolve symptoms and the guys who decide to go way past that point in an effort to feel fantastic. I’m strictly referring to the former here and not the latter. If someone wants to stay at 500mg year round we don’t really know what l effect that will have. Having free T at 30-40, which is conservatively over the range, and having free T over 100 is two different things.
I need to make that clear.
Why aren’t you bastards drinking beer and watching the fight?
John Meadows made a diet plan for me. My wife is making ALL the meals. I’m editing a video my wife did with Victoria Felkar today for women’s health while spending time with my wife and kids. Beer and fights are low on my list of priorities, you bastard lol
Well since it’s the prelims i’ll go ahead and say I like both you guys. Actually just started my dbossa protocol a little over 6 weeks ago. Feels pretty good not having all these variables weighing on my mind.
I think this is totally fine… That’s my opinion
That being said, we do know what the effect for some is regarding 500mg year round… studies implementing users who have used 675mg weekly (statistical avg TESTOSTERONE equivalent) on average had significantly enlarged hearts, reduced LVEF, diastolic dysfunction etc. granted it’s one study
One can make the arguement “but they’re not taking into account synthetic derivitaves”… sure, some AAS are more likely to elicit hypertension (leading to cardiac enlargement/failure), but all AAS enhance gene expression via AR binding. If myocardial injury is related to AR binding, not a hypertension mediated response… then all androgens regarding of being synthetic or not will elicit this stimulus (sympathetic nervous system dominance may be an indirect mechanism)
That being said, if we are talking about trt (FT of 30-50 or so) the verdict is still out, I don’t think it’s a big deal for most. For those who have intolerable sides regarding the induction of autonomic dysfunction… the dosage is probably too high, literature specifies beta adrenergic receptor upregulation may play a large role regarding the cardiac effects of AAS (barring a direct effect… as the concept of AR binding within cardiac myocytes is highly controversial)
What these studies fail to take into account however is the dose dependent response differing within different people. For someone such as yourself, a ft of 50 on 500mg will DRASTICALLY differ from someone else (with identical AR sensitivity/density/number of CAG repeats etc) who uses 500mg and has a FT of 150… there’s obviously a clear difference there
I do find it irritating when people give the knee jerk response “you’re dose is too high” when they’ve got a TT of like 800, FT of 24 etc… many a times there are other compounding factors inducing adverse effects.
Though there are a select FEW such as systemlord that cannot handle higher dosages (typically because said person is in bad health to begin with)
Take me for instance, someone with PRE EXISTING autonomic dysfunction. Dosages of 250mg TEST weekly or more I can’t handle, though I’m supraphysiologic at that point. Synthetic (milder) androgens I can handle better than test (barring long term detriment, talking about acutely)
I’m not defending systemlord here, I just think creating an entire thread to call him out is perhaps overkill/not very nice. One could handle this situation in a more discreet fashion
That being said, this is just what I think… I’m just one person, you do what you think is right. I was initially worried about the thread title because one could perhaps get in trouble with the mods for calling out an individual within a thread title.
TERRIBLE for gains lol… alcohol in general… just terrible
Switch to pot, it’ll induce a profound sense of demotivation (if you react like I do)… make you the least productive person you’ve ever been (once again… if you react in a similar fashion to me) but you’ll laugh at you’re own terrible jokes, find everything incredibly interesting/thought provoking (even if it’s just an inanimate object like a block of cheese) and you’ll have no trouble getting tons of food in
But it doesn’t last as long (compared to being drunk) and leaves one minimally hungover… the main regret being the 4000 calories you’ve just wolfed down over the past hour
Disclaimer: I’m joking, obviously I don’t ’recommend’ using anything
I never drink beer, alcohol is a solvent you know. So I should watch two people bash each other brains in and watch these guy cause each other traumatic brain injuries.
Yeah I’ll probably go flip the TV on now and watch it right now. Good idea by the way.