The Stupid Thread 2 (Part 1)

[twojarslave]

The simple answer IMO is to return to the core principles that made public education effective for so many Americans for so many decades. We’ve been busy “re-imagining” things for a few generations now, and here we are today teaching boys that they can be women if they feel like it, that skin color should be at the center of how we look at other people, and that America’s people and institutions are racist to the core.

We should instead teach the truth and teach in a way that will grow independent-minded thinkers and creators, not indoctrinate kids into nonsense with the goal of creating more Democrat voters.

Progressive is no longer the correct word for our woke left. They are transgressive at best, regressive at worst. Conservatives were asleep at the wheel, politically-speaking, while all of these rotten ideas were planted, took root and have now sprouted into a fully developed invasive species that you’ll never manage to get rid of completely.

It starts with Ron DeSantis and people like him doing the things that are guaranteed to draw the ire of the woke left establishment. So the pendulum swings.

[jshaving]

@Bauber

Absolutely none of these should be eligible for student loans imo. This is shit you can learn on your own or on your own dime.

If we go this route, isn’t this basically true of pretty much all subjects? What info is taught in any program or at any school that isn’t already present in some book somewhere? I was just talking to an electrician who said the new guys coming into the field have learned about as much from YouTube videos as they will by doing the job (for at least a period of time).

[FlatsFarmer]

A little off topic, but didn’t the KKK join Strom Thurmond in turning Republican in the 60’s ?

[twojarslave]

Strom Thurmond is the only national-level racist Dixiecrat who stayed politically viable by becoming a Republican that I’m aware of.

I don’t know of any KKK voting surveys to reference, but I would not find it surprising if the KKK just voted for lower taxes once the Democrats no longer found them politically useful. That’s been the story of the Democrat party for it’s entire existence. Manipulate the wind as much as you can, but shift with it when you have to go to your next set of bad ideas and ill-conceived social experiments.

Related, Joe Biden gave the eulogy at Robert Byrd’s funeral. He was a lifelong Democrat and enthusiastic Klansman in his early days, when being an enthusiastic Klansmen is how you got in and stayed in power. The Democrats have always been “community organizers”, and Byrd once organized 150 people to form a Klan chapter.

He served in the Senate up until his timely death in 2010 at age 92. Klansmen having actual power is still living memory for the USA.

[fitafter40]

No…he is keeping the bullshit out of florida

[Bauber]

@jshaving

If we go this route, isn’t this basically true of pretty much all subjects?

There are majors that inherently have more use to society and are applicable to actual jobs.

If you want to pursue useless shit - that is fine. But, pay for it yourself and schooling should not have guaranteed loans that are not dischargeable via bankruptcy.

There are a lot topics I’ve covered - but I think you get the gist.

Dance theory, basketweaving, etc have very little use to society on a large scale. Certainly not worth 100s of thousands in debt or fees to be guaranteed by the government.

[jshaving]

I get what you’re saying and agree about topics such as “dance theory” haha, but I think we may disagree when it comes to topics like history, literature, stuff like that. I think there’s a real argument to be made that those things have as much value to our society as other fields such as medicine, engineering, etc.

The dance theory and basketweaving made me laugh though.

[twojarslave]

I notice a shortage of welders when we can’t hire enough welders to weld everything we need welded. The weld shop then becomes a production bottleneck.

How would we know if society has a shortage of art history majors or scholars of gender studies?

[dt79]

@loppar

FWIW, the Weimar Republic did it deliberately, the printed as much money as possible to buy foreign hard currency at virtually any exchange rate and therefore service the reparations in said currencies stemming from the Versailles Treaty.

Of course, the strategy backfired.

Dude, I was going to post the same thing lol. Which doesn’t mean I think David Niven looks like the epitome of manliness.

[SkyzykS]

@twojarslave

How would we know if society has a shortage of art history majors or scholars of gender studies?

Because there would finally be enough welders?

[SkyzykS]

For real though, thats where the whole “follow your dreams” stuff starts to crack.

Like, I don’t care what Billy knows about Picassos blue period if he can’t use a tape measure.

[Bauber]

@twojarslave

How would we know if society has a shortage of art history majors or scholars of gender studies?

Society would function just fine without history majors or any other “pleasure” major. How many years did society function without these? Most of human history. These majors only become available when society becomes weak and affluent and there is a reason for that.

[loppar]

@SkyzykS

For real though, thats where the whole “follow your dreams” stuff starts to crack.

This is the Vanderbilt trajectory - the first generation creates wealth, the second (or third) has enough financial resources to “follow their dreams” resulting in wealth reduction, the generation after that is in for a rude awakening and after that the cycle restarts…

[jshaving]

I would place gender studies with basket weaving and dance theory, haha.

Art history specifically? Might not be that important. But history in general? I think we can see quite plainly what the effects are of having a population that is largely ignorant regarding history, economics, and politics.

I was recently speaking with a guy who teaches ESL and GED classes. He was giving a presentation to townspeople in a small SD town who were facing a large influx of immigrant workers to fill the open jobs at their factories that the town’s aging and decreasing population couldn’t fill. The place the guy works for (some office within the Dept. of Labor, I think) wanted to be able to answer any questions or concerns that the people would have about the changing circumstances. At one point, the conversation turned towards citizenship tests. The townspeople didn’t know what was on the tests, so the guy began asking them some potential questions, thinking it’d make things clear. He said not a single American could get them right. Even the easy ones. I’m pretty sure one potential question is about what is the longest river in the US, haha. Most are harder than that.

It’s been well documented that the majority of Americans could not pass a citizenship test. I think that’s a problem. We don’t only need good workers, we also need good citizens, who have some knowledge of our country’s history and political systems, as well as ideally at least a little world history to place things in context. I think knowledge of economics, literature, etc. fit in there as well.

I’m a small town, Midwest guy. I grew up in a poor, blue collar family. I was raised with largely traditional, “American” values (family, hard work, etc.). I still support and agree with those things. I just think there’s nothing wrong with wanting, maybe even expecting, a worker to know how to use a tape measure and also be able to tell me a little bit about history. Picasso? Maybe don’t expect a job or any help with that. But American stuff? Yeah, that should be valued as much as the work stuff. When it’s not, you get a country like the present day US, filled with idiots.

@Bauber

How many years did society function without these? Most of human history.

Most of human history was spent struggling to survive the day. The founding fathers encouraged a well-educated populace, believing it was the only way that the people could successfully govern themselves, and not be peasants who groveled before a king, as they often had throughout history.

[Bauber]

@jshaving

Most of human history was spent struggling to survive the day. The founding fathers encouraged a well-educated populace, believing it was the only way that the people could successfully govern themselves, and not be peasants who groveled before a king, as they often had throughout history.

Most of them were self-taught too. The government can’t mandate and force knowledge on anyone as we have glaringly seen.

All of the things you speak about can literally be studied and learned on your own. It is nothing but reading. I think grades 1-12 should definitely cover history and the arts to a degree.

Higher education in those things? Not seeing the payoff when it costs $100K+.

Hell most 4 year degrees are near worthless compared to what they cost unless it is in a STEM field or specialized field / steppingstone to take you to graduate or professional school.

And this is coming from somebody with a slew of expensive higher education degrees under his belt.

[jshaving]

@Bauber

Higher education in those things? Not seeing the payoff when it costs $100K+.

My history degree (yeah, might be a little biased) will have cost me around $45k when I graduate next year. And I won’t have a single cent to pay back. (Actually, I won’t have paid for a single cent of it myself - scholarships, mostly due to grades.)

I will make $45k in my first year of teaching. (More if I get a graduate degree…we’ll see.) That’s a pretty quick turnaround. I’m cool with that.

I think it all depends on an individual’s choices. People talk about college being so expensive. I think it’s very often due to their choices. I chose a cheap school, lived at home, and worked fulltime from day 1. (And I had a kid a few semesters in.)

I don’t think a degree wouldn’t seem so expensive or worthless if it wasn’t all paid for in tens of thousands worth of loans that you have to pay back.

[Bauber]

@loppar

This is the Vanderbilt trajectory - the first generation creates wealth, the second (or third) has enough financial resources to “follow their dreams” resulting in wealth reduction, the generation after that is in for a rude awakening and after that the cycle restarts…

Not the cycle my family has followed lol.

My mom was a first-generation college graduate. She is a MD / PHD in Microbiology.

My dad was also a first-generation college graduate. He has an electrical engineering degree with a masters in EE from John’s Hopkins.

I have a JD, MBA.
My youngest brother just got his white coat in his MD/ PHD joint program.
My other brother has a degree in computer science and owns his own consulting firm.
My sister has a PHD in kinesiology - raises kids / stay at home mom.

I plan on my children becoming successful on their own merits. I have strict stipulations on their trust funds.

[jshaving]

Can I get adopted by your family? Could use some help buying a house with that teaching salary…

(But I’m not expecting the government to save me.)

[Bauber]

@jshaving

I think it all depends on an individual’s choices. People talk about college being so expensive. I think it’s very often due to their choices. I chose a cheap school, lived at home, and worked fulltime from day 1. (And I had a kid a few semesters in.)

You had a definite plan though, which is commendable. Just going for some degree to simply get a degree with no direction or plan is idiotic with the costs. I did 2 undergrad degrees though, so I am an idiot. Well, I was thinking of going to medical school and decided that was not for me since I am too much of an asshole to be a doctor and went the law school route.

I actually got paid to go to undergrad with an academic and an athletic scholarship for my first degree.

@jshaving

I will make $45k in my first year of teaching.

My wife has been a teacher for 16 years in 5th grade with a masters and PHD in education. I feel this pain. They don’t pay you guys near enough for what you have to deal with.

It is sad when I have paychecks that are more than her yearly salary. If you ever want to have anything as a teacher, start thinking about a side business.

[jshaving]

@Bauber

start thinking about a side business

I’m sure I’ll have to. I’d like to flip houses but that of course will require enough money to buy a house first, haha. Long term that + owning rental properties is my goal.

Ran a party bus for a year. That was really good money but I didn’t have the time to keep doing it. Maybe I’ll pick it back up if I get desperate.

I do other small stuff like car detailing and phone/computer repair but I struggle with advertising enough that I get enough customers to make it worth it.