The Stupid Thread 2 (Part 1)

oh good … more bureaucracy without a shred of accountability or clear charter…I’m sure it’ll work out just fine

Gotta love those meaningless platitudes

more empty words without clear direction … not surprised coming from a BLM-LA cofounder

…police ARE a resource…more meaningless drivel

in the immortal words of James Hetfield: “You know it’s sad but true…”

…exactly. Why should they? As long as they produce the statistical evidence that they’re doing well, who cares about real honest education? IMO public education is placing incentives on the wrong things…You’re a teacher or were right? You must have a more nuanced perspective than me

We have had social programs and supports in schools and cities for years and what has changed? The people who come up with these programs have zero accountability and never get asked to demonstrate effectiveness.

A failing school will simply be reflecting a failing community. Even a janitor who barely speaks English can tell you that (as one told me). But who gets blamed for failing schools? Teachers, because it’s always those with the least power who get scapegoated. They are also the last ones to get asked what they think should be done. It’s like the police; they don’t make policy or write the laws. A Democrat mayor made stop and frisk a policy and also made sure that it impacted minorities more. But who looks like the Gestapo? The cops.

Schools will have procedures and policies to deal with behavioral issues. As a teacher you need to document everything and show that you followed those steps but you do it not because it works but to simply cover your ass. And what they want you to do, does not work. The thing is, the people who should be dealing with discipline issues don’t know what they are doing (I also think they are lazy as they chose a job in education that is easier than teaching) so they have protocols in place that make the teacher have to deal with problems until they become impossible to manage. I have kicked kids out of class and been told that I needed to do try more ways to deal with the behavior before kicking the kid out. So that’s my job? Behavior management? What do teachers do knowing that the people who are supposed to fix those problems don’t fix them and pass that responsibility onto teachers? They just let kids get away with shitty behavior because it’s the easiest way to get through the day. No one wants to go to work knowing they are going to be in a battle. I’ve seen teachers crying in their cars before and after school.

The thing is that admin wants to keep suspensions and disciplinary actions (and arrests) low. It doesn’t look like a principal has control of a school if they are suspending lots of kids every day. This is why they create a environment in which teachers just ignore bad behaviors which in turn enables those behaviors. “A student told you to fuck off? How many times? One? And you want him to face consequences for one offense? Come back after he tells you to fuck off 10 times.” This is the attitude of admin. I read about a school in the Philly area that was able to reduce the number of student arrests. Sounds great until you read the fine print: they stopped calling the cops for every arrestable (is that a word?) offense including bringing a weapon to school. I worked in a school that was a total shithole (like the town it was in, surprise). The state was monitoring certain school reports and emails that dealt with discipline issues (between deans and social workers, for example) so what did the school do? If a kid got suspended, the state would know. If a student was reported for certain behaviors (teachers would document incidents electronically) the state would know. They decided to bypass the official channels set up for reporting and documenting those issues so the state wouldn’t know how bad it was. My wife knows of a school that would record suspensions as absences.

That same school had the lowest test scores in the state. At a board of ed meeting the superintendent, who is basically a politician, blamed everyone equally (teachers, community) but it is not about teachers. There were teachers at that school who had been there for years and the school was fine but then the demographics of the city changed. Same teachers, different students. I saw that at other schools where teachers who had been working there for 20 years said that once the demographics changed, everything went downhill. And, it’s not like there are two different hiring pools for teachers. One pool is the good teachers who work in suburban schools and another for urban schools. Teachers can’t teach in shitty schools because some of the students are unteachable. Then you meet the parents (I mean parent) and it all makes sense. You also have high numbers of special ed students. There was one elementary school where over half the students were SPED. So schools go and fudge test numbers (or just help kids cheat) or find ways to keep the worst kids from taking the standardized tests (many of them don’t show up anyway). There is grade inflation and in some schools the lowest possible grade for a student is a 50. Students can hand in a term’s worth of work the day grades are due. You have to accept all late work. This does not teach responsibility. None of these things are the ideas of teachers and none of them work but it makes the job of admin easier.

I have heard college students who want to become teachers say they want to teach in the inner cities (white savior syndrome). I ask them if they ever lived there and the answer is no. I tell them to stay away from the ghetto because they will only feel disappointment and pain. You hear teachers say how if they can save just one kid it’s worth it but the reality is, they are haunted by the many students they couldn’t save.

The only way to fix the ghetto is by having the people change how they think and feel. Their sense of normal is not compatible with the rest of the country. It does not lead to success. The only way to get people to change on a cultural and social level is to impose it upon them (think about growing up in a stable family environment where there were rules, standards of behavior and expectations that you had to follow and meet. You had no choice and those standards were also seen in the community) but that won’t happen. An idea as simple as making it a requirement for a mother receiving welfare to attend parenting classes. Making it a requirement that if a child is having behavioral issues that she and the child must both attend counseling. Tell a parent that she won’t be allowed to pass the buck when it comes to raising her kid and will be an active participant in his upbringing and, she will be told how to do it properly, otherwise you get no money. You see kids with iPhones whose parents won’t buy them a pencil.

If people actually saw what goes on in some of these schools they would be screaming for them to get closed. If you ever get to visit one of these schools, go during lunch time and see if they let you go to the cafeteria. I know someone who was doing student teaching in a ghetto school. He lasted one day. He said the kids were vulgar and didn’t listen but the final straw was students having sex in the bathrooms. At least it was the bathrooms. Kids will have sex in the classroom, during class, with a teacher present. And yes, someone recorded it on their phone.

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You make it sound like the beginning of Lean On Me…

I kid, and it seems your experience, if I’m not mistaken from previous discussions, is largely based on inner-city/urban public schools. The administration and discipline buck passing you described is very similar to the experiences told to me by a couple high school teachers I know teaching in a middle class high school.

What the fuck does this shit even mean??? What the fuck does ANY of that stuff mean?

Holy shit the crime is going to explode.

The only thing I can guess is hippie hugging them to death, but then someone would doubtless complain that they felt…violated or something. WTF

Has anyone actually looked into the specifics of what policies and programs they will be funding with the money they are reallocating? I would assume that information is out there, i just dont have the time to hunt it down currently.

Preach!! I wish I could like that whole post more than once.

This is the case in at least one school in my area. It is currently “ok”, as in low crime (but also low achievement) but this has done exactly what you describe and has also contributed to chasing a friend of mine away from teaching there, almost anywhere. They see it going downhill but nobody listens or they get in trouble for suggesting otherwise.

This is the unpopular “racist” truth sadly. But I do want to emphasize (as I know you already know) that there are awesome parents in the ghetto doing this in their one sphere, as I alluded to in the other thread with regard to our family friend. All of their 6 kids have become awesome adults. Sadly they’re rare. It is EXTREMELY hard to change an environment and the downward slide of the cycle.

I kind of agree in principle, but I just want to remind you you’re talking about the same brilliant bureaucratic minds that gave you all these failed school policies in charge of the “properly” part…

I am not at all a fan of government interference with parenting. However I do agree in principle that if you are getting what amounts to “free” money then there are some responsibilities that go with it just like everything else in life.

It is, as I mentioned somewhere else my brother works in a very nice district (or used to be). One of the best in the country…and it’s exactly the same.

The difference is largely the expectations on kids at home there vs. the ghetto.

I have not, as I was unaware of the situation until Idaho posted. Although, I am cynical enough that I don’t think they have a clue

I’m personally going to wait to hear what the new policies and programs (for all the defund movements) will be before i sit back and take potshots at folks. I’m skeptical as well, but no progress gets made by clinging to the past and offhand dismissing new ideas without even hearing what they are.

Dismissing something but not actually knowing what that something is, doesnt make a lot of sense.

LOL. Hear me out guys. Let’s try fighting crime by defunding the police.

You don’t need to hear the entire shitty idea fleshed out to make an accurate prediction that this will not be helpful except to those who gain power from it. You also don’t need to wait to see what happens with various forms of police stand-downs, because crime doesn’t take long to sprout up when you sit back and allow it to. It’s happening right now in some of our largest cities.

We’ve got over a century of Marxist revolutionary outcomes in all kinds of societies on all kinds of scales all over the world to examine, in addition to our own shitty outcomes with Marxism light in the USA. These outcomes all suck because Marxists suck, their ideas suck and they are cursed with the destructive combination of ignorance and confidence necessary to support Marxist ideology.

The real irony with a lot of this is that so many regular people, Democrats included, are wising up to the con of BLM. Why is this ironic? Because they will all be called racists and white supremacists, thus fulfilling the prophecy of nameless, faceless white supremacists finally becoming emboldened by Trump to step out of the shadows and act.

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They are removing police officers from schools. That’s all we need to know. None of their gobbledy gook is going to make a school safer than an actual police officer.

Also, for children from impoverished, crime ridden neighborhoods, having a school resource officer who they know by name and who knows them by name creates a positive relationship with law enforcement. Removing that positive relationship seems like a great way to worsen community relations with law enforcement. But if your racket is making money on police brutality, like BLM, Al Sharpton, then it really isn’t in your best interest to try to solve that problem, is it?

It’s already happening. I know citing crime in Chicago is almost cliche, but:

Chicago police arrests was down 55%, street stops fell by 74% and traffic stops dropped by 86% compared with the same period the year

This past weekend, [65 people were shot, 18 fatally], including a 1-year-old, a 10-year-old and a 17-year-old. Two weekends ago, [104 people were shot, with 15 killed], including a 3-year-old and four teens. On May 31, 18 people were killed on a single Sunday, the most violent day in 60 years in Chicago.

The police there are worried about COVID-19, being fired, or arrested for doing their job.

The Englewood area is now hiring private security for the Holiday Weekend. Private Security Hired in Chicago Neighborhood in Effort to Prevent Holiday Weekend Violence – NBC Chicago

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Progress in the is world comes from new ideas. I’m simply suggesting that you withhold judgment until you hear these new ideas. Keep an open mind, and then judge away.

I’m ok with that. What I’m not ok with is people starting a new idea without even the faintest clue about what comes next. It’s like going skydiving without a parachute. Man doesn’t it feel good to fly?? Fantastic until you realize you forgot the thing that was supposed to save your ass because you didn’t think first and just ran into the first plane you saw.

People speak in obscure terms when they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. “Visions of safety grounded in meeting student needs”. “Appropriate community support in the event of emergency”. Etc.

That right there is code for “we have no idea what the fuck we’re going to replace shit with or how it’s going to work.”

Or this, the crown jewel: “The money saved will be allocated to fund staff to specifically serve the needs of Black students and a task force that will study ways to re-imagine the issue of student and campus safety”

What that says in plain English is: “we cut shit without a clue what to replace it with, so we’re going to take that money and study how to replace it while our students suffer because we don’t have a fucking plan”

You don’t fucking start a task force to find a plan AFTER implementing a policy change. You have the plan BEFORE implementation. Or at least A plan that serves as a starting point that you may need to pivot from.

You don’t even start a small business with no plan. You definitely don’t go into a bank and look for a loan: “how is this business going to work?” “Ah, I’ll figure it out after you give me the money”. “Sir, I think you need to leave. We require a plan before lending money”. I’d be laughed out of the bank. That’s a one person business compared to one of the largest school districts in the country, with real actual people’s welfare on the line.

Not irate at your post personally FYI.

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The thing I find utterly loathsome about this is they’re experimenting with other people’s children. Children could be murdered by mass shooters, or just run of the mill gang violence, but it’s ok, we’re trying out new ideas!

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I agree, they need to have a new plan before they scrap the old one (Invasion of Iraq…). Have they actually scrapped the old policies and budgets yet, or is it just still promises and policy drafts yet to be implemented?

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So…the U.K. gets the Hong Kongers and China gets the British tankies?

Where do I sign? If you didn’t bring a pen, will a signature in blood suffice?

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As far as I am aware the contract was “downsized” or whatever they call it already. The vote was already taken and passed, effective immediately. I admit I could be incorrect.

That’s how we got here. It worked on me, I was a Marxist for many years after leaving the education system, although I didn’t know it by that name. It was a lot harder for me to shake Marxism than it was Catholicism, but I pulled through in both cases.

I think you’re talking more about the kids that have such a slim chance at living a rewarding, enriching life today in the year 2020 in the United States of America, which I agree is loathsome. Sadly, I think the violence and mayhem is just picking up steam. It will be a hot Chicago summer.

I harp as much if not more than anyone about the assumption of good faith, but it is beginning to be difficult to hold on to that when the policy goal just seems to be sowing fear, unrest, chaos, violence and weakening the only established institution our society has to stop any of it.

Then replacing it with…

Vapid nonsense that cannot be logically connected to any improved outcome on any scale.

I’m not sure what to make of any of this at this point.

I’d send the generations behind me to war if we got Hong Kong out of the deal. They’d make better Americans than United Kindgomer Subjects of Her Majesty or whatever you people call yourselves.

Edit:

It dawned on me that you may not be talking about an invasion force of British tanks battling the CCP to liberate Hong Kong.

I’m good with sending them our communists and Marxists as well. Go, flourish in your new system!