The Rule: 6 Meals/Day

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I haven’t seen any research or literature indicating that your body is less efficient at absorbing nutrients depending on meal frequency. I remember it was a popular belief that the body could not digest a certain amount of protein, and that that any excess would be excreted. But hasn’t this been de-bunked thoroughly? The human body is so much more adaptable than that.

I believe absorption, to the extent it can be influenced at all, is more an issue of nutritional quality versus nutritional timing. Cordain, et al talk about leaky gut syndrome quite a bit, and there seems to be some evidence that certain foods may cause intestinal or bowel hyperpermeability lowering the efficiency of micro-nutrient absorption. I’m not sure I believe this is as significant as the paleo crowd does, but it does make me wonder about the efficacy of IIFYM. [/quote]
^^FALSE

FACT: if you have 41grams of protein or more in one sitting then every single ounce above 40 will be ceremoniously pee’d put your b-hole within a matter of minutes.

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I haven’t seen any research or literature indicating that your body is less efficient at absorbing nutrients depending on meal frequency. I remember it was a popular belief that the body could not digest a certain amount of protein, and that that any excess would be excreted. But hasn’t this been de-bunked thoroughly? The human body is so much more adaptable than that.

I believe absorption, to the extent it can be influenced at all, is more an issue of nutritional quality versus nutritional timing. Cordain, et al talk about leaky gut syndrome quite a bit, and there seems to be some evidence that certain foods may cause intestinal or bowel hyperpermeability lowering the efficiency of micro-nutrient absorption. I’m not sure I believe this is as significant as the paleo crowd does, but it does make me wonder about the efficacy of IIFYM. [/quote]
^^FALSE

FACT: if you have 41grams of protein or more in one sitting then every single ounce above 40 will be ceremoniously pee’d put your b-hole within a matter of minutes. [/quote]

oh nose. i jus hadz 42gs…

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

^^FALSE

FACT: if you have 41grams of protein or more in one sitting then every single ounce above 40 will be ceremoniously pee’d put your b-hole within a matter of minutes. [/quote]

[quote]Waittz wrote:

oh nose. i jus hadz 42gs…
[/quote]

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I haven’t seen any research or literature indicating that your body is less efficient at absorbing nutrients depending on meal frequency. I remember it was a popular belief that the body could not digest a certain amount of protein, and that that any excess would be excreted. But hasn’t this been de-bunked thoroughly? The human body is so much more adaptable than that.

I believe absorption, to the extent it can be influenced at all, is more an issue of nutritional quality versus nutritional timing. Cordain, et al talk about leaky gut syndrome quite a bit, and there seems to be some evidence that certain foods may cause intestinal or bowel hyperpermeability lowering the efficiency of micro-nutrient absorption. I’m not sure I believe this is as significant as the paleo crowd does, but it does make me wonder about the efficacy of IIFYM. [/quote]
^^FALSE

FACT: if you have 41grams of protein or more in one sitting then every single ounce above 40 will be ceremoniously pee’d put your b-hole within a matter of minutes. [/quote]

oh nose. i jus hadz 42gs…
[/quote]

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I haven’t seen any research or literature indicating that your body is less efficient at absorbing nutrients depending on meal frequency. I remember it was a popular belief that the body could not digest a certain amount of protein, and that that any excess would be excreted. But hasn’t this been de-bunked thoroughly? The human body is so much more adaptable than that.

I believe absorption, to the extent it can be influenced at all, is more an issue of nutritional quality versus nutritional timing. Cordain, et al talk about leaky gut syndrome quite a bit, and there seems to be some evidence that certain foods may cause intestinal or bowel hyperpermeability lowering the efficiency of micro-nutrient absorption. I’m not sure I believe this is as significant as the paleo crowd does, but it does make me wonder about the efficacy of IIFYM. [/quote]
^^FALSE

FACT: if you have 41grams of protein or more in one sitting then every single ounce above 40 will be ceremoniously pee’d put your b-hole within a matter of minutes. [/quote]

oh nose. i jus hadz 42gs…
[/quote]
[/quote]

I just lost composure in my office.

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I haven’t seen any research or literature indicating that your body is less efficient at absorbing nutrients depending on meal frequency. I remember it was a popular belief that the body could not digest a certain amount of protein, and that that any excess would be excreted. But hasn’t this been de-bunked thoroughly? The human body is so much more adaptable than that.

I believe absorption, to the extent it can be influenced at all, is more an issue of nutritional quality versus nutritional timing. Cordain, et al talk about leaky gut syndrome quite a bit, and there seems to be some evidence that certain foods may cause intestinal or bowel hyperpermeability lowering the efficiency of micro-nutrient absorption. I’m not sure I believe this is as significant as the paleo crowd does, but it does make me wonder about the efficacy of IIFYM. [/quote]
^^FALSE

FACT: if you have 41grams of protein or more in one sitting then every single ounce above 40 will be ceremoniously pee’d put your b-hole within a matter of minutes. [/quote]

oh nose. i jus hadz 42gs…
[/quote]
[/quote]
my ex always queefed loudly a few times. That must be why.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry no. Your body isn’t that dumb. Digestion speed is also based on the size of meals. Big meal. Slow digestion. And your body can up regulate absorption. [/quote]

So you believe if you consume 4k calories of food in one sitting, that your body will be able to process the food as efficiently as if you split that into 4 1000 calorie meals in a day?

There’s such a thing as the system being unable to process past a certain volume and it just pushes it through instead of processing it. This is apparent in all systems in existence.[/quote]
Yes I do since I regularly do it and I am progressing nicely. And I am not a special butterfly. It’s just an adaptation. You think primal humans were stuffing their face 4 times a day or more likely gorging every so often. I’m going with the latter [/quote]

You’re eating an entire day’s worth of food in one sitting? Are you currently leaning out or adding mass? Please post pictures of your array of food, because I’d really like to see the massive quantity you consume in one sitting. This boggles my mind, your stomach can’t be happy.

Primitive man was also malnourished and adapted to other things like eating raw meat. And it isn’t to say the body couldn’t get plenty of nutrients from the large single meal, but it isn’t as efficient to the system.

I honestly just want to see that food. On my diet, just protein alone, it would be something like 3lbs of meat, that’s not including carbs or fats.

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry no. Your body isn’t that dumb. Digestion speed is also based on the size of meals. Big meal. Slow digestion. And your body can up regulate absorption. [/quote]

So you believe if you consume 4k calories of food in one sitting, that your body will be able to process the food as efficiently as if you split that into 4 1000 calorie meals in a day?

There’s such a thing as the system being unable to process past a certain volume and it just pushes it through instead of processing it. This is apparent in all systems in existence.[/quote]
Yes I do since I regularly do it and I am progressing nicely. And I am not a special butterfly. It’s just an adaptation. You think primal humans were stuffing their face 4 times a day or more likely gorging every so often. I’m going with the latter [/quote]

You’re eating an entire day’s worth of food in one sitting? Are you currently leaning out or adding mass? Please post pictures of your array of food, because I’d really like to see the massive quantity you consume in one sitting. This boggles my mind, your stomach can’t be happy.

Primitive man was also malnourished and adapted to other things like eating raw meat. And it isn’t to say the body couldn’t get plenty of nutrients from the large single meal, but it isn’t as efficient to the system.

I honestly just want to see that food. On my diet, just protein alone, it would be something like 3lbs of meat, that’s not including carbs or fats. [/quote]

I didn’t say I eat my whole cal in one sitting but many nights yes I do eat 4-5 in one sitting. That’s not all my food :wink:

And it’s mostly carbs after a pro meal. So egg whites. Then some rice. Box of cereal. Container of ice cream. Loaf of bread topped with what I want. :slight_smile:

I do this no matter the goal. I adjust total intake based on the goal. My stomach is fine. So when we people say its impossible or it doesn’t work. That’s just bullshit. Maybe they can’t because they can’t eat enough. But the body will make use of the food and nutrients.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Sorry no. Your body isn’t that dumb. Digestion speed is also based on the size of meals. Big meal. Slow digestion. And your body can up regulate absorption. [/quote]

So you believe if you consume 4k calories of food in one sitting, that your body will be able to process the food as efficiently as if you split that into 4 1000 calorie meals in a day?

There’s such a thing as the system being unable to process past a certain volume and it just pushes it through instead of processing it. This is apparent in all systems in existence.[/quote]
Yes I do since I regularly do it and I am progressing nicely. And I am not a special butterfly. It’s just an adaptation. You think primal humans were stuffing their face 4 times a day or more likely gorging every so often. I’m going with the latter [/quote]

You’re eating an entire day’s worth of food in one sitting? Are you currently leaning out or adding mass? Please post pictures of your array of food, because I’d really like to see the massive quantity you consume in one sitting. This boggles my mind, your stomach can’t be happy.

Primitive man was also malnourished and adapted to other things like eating raw meat. And it isn’t to say the body couldn’t get plenty of nutrients from the large single meal, but it isn’t as efficient to the system.

I honestly just want to see that food. On my diet, just protein alone, it would be something like 3lbs of meat, that’s not including carbs or fats. [/quote]

I didn’t say I eat my whole cal in one sitting but many nights yes I do eat 4-5 in one sitting. That’s not all my food :wink:

And it’s mostly carbs after a pro meal. So egg whites. Then some rice. Box of cereal. Container of ice cream. Loaf of bread topped with what I want. :slight_smile:

I do this no matter the goal. I adjust total intake based on the goal. My stomach is fine. So when we people say its impossible or it doesn’t work. That’s just bullshit. Maybe they can’t because they can’t eat enough. But the body will make use of the food and nutrients. [/quote]

It’s also a matter of adaptation. When I first started IF, it wasn’t exactly easy (for me) to get 2600 calories in 4-8 hours. 6 months later, I eat 3300 calories in two hours, 250 g of proteiin, like it’s a snack. Workout days I spread those calories out into 2-3 meals and 6-8 hours, deoending on my schedule, but on off days I fast for 18-22 hours and get a high protein/high fat 2550 calories in 2 hours.

And for the record, I’ve gained 10-12 pounds over that period of time, maining leanness and vascularity, while gaining strength and muscle (the latter, slowly, but that’s the goal).

You stretch your stomachs, same technique people who enter food competitions do. That’s why when people eat less food before Thanksgiving (to save room) they are defeating themselves because it shrinks their stomachs. That’s also why when you eat smaller meals your stomach shrinks and allows you to forego some hunger pangs/issues.

I guess I don’t see gorging as a healthy option. I’ve eaten some pretty large meals before and yea its fun, but that’s a huge slug on the system. Do what you will with your system, I’m glad its paying off for you, to me its unhealthy.

I think that the minimum amount of meals you should eat is two.

I feel as though with the right combo of fast/slow carbs and fats, you can supply yourself for most of the day with one big meal, and then time a supplementary one later closer to the end of the day for those who work out late or at the beginning of the day for those who work out in the morning.

I think that there is two important anabolic windows that should be optimized, AM and PWO, and one meal would miss out on one of them.

I also think that eating more meals is a better way to ingest large volumes of food and also carbohydrates when trying to gain weight. It avoids a sudden insulin spike that a big big meal would provide (which I surmise is better for maintaining good insulin sensitivity) and IMO is a better way to eat lots due to sheer food volume.

When dieting I also think that being in ketosis (but not too long) is a good thing and with only a 2 meals you can more easily achieve lower levels of blood sugar (assuming moderate carbs consumed during one of the better windows or periworkout) without compromising on lowered glycogen stores and thus a shittier performance. Also less meals typically = less calories.

[quote]c.m.l. wrote:

I also think that eating more meals is a better way to ingest large volumes of food and also carbohydrates when trying to gain weight. It avoids a sudden insulin spike that a big big meal would provide (which I surmise is better for maintaining good insulin sensitivity) and IMO is a better way to eat lots due to sheer food volume.
[/quote]

I don’t agree with this at all. I think a lot of reasoning behind less frequent meals and more fasting style dieting is to avoid all those insulin spikes 6+ small meals a day create.

Spidey, this is going to come from a purely engineering mindset, so take it for what its worth - and then I’ll follow-up with a specific bodybuilding example.

When you take a sinusoidal wave, ie the standard trig level wave that looks like the waves of an ocean, and try to change it to a steady signal, ie less pulse and more constant you increase the frequency so that the “wave caps” are closer together. Its like lying to the system receiving that signal as input that the input is a constant as opposed to pulsed. This is essentially what they do with an AC to DC converter, going from an intermittent signal to a steady one to feed the system. Buffers, Op-amps, capacitors, etc. do the job, but the point is, increasing the frequency is what brings balance to the system, not reducing the frequency.

Now let me apply this to something bodybuilding specific. When folks go on TRT or choose to inject they have a couple options. 1) Inject a longer estered steroid once every week or two, its simpler, easier and more convenient. 2) inject a shorter estered steroid, or inject the same longer estered steroid at a greater frequency, more needles, more time consumed, but with a different positive.

When you inject a large sum of something into a system that was at homeostasis before-hand you incur a dramatic response from the system, you shock it. In the case of the steroid, your system now tries to deal with this large “slug” of juice. Your mood will swing from more T, you’ll be more likely to deal with side effects - all because your body is trying to deal with a drastic change (the large waves of the sinusoid).

To counter this, guys will take a dosage and split it to occur more often than once every one to two weeks. This levels the steroid in the blood, makes it more consistent, and more manageable to the system. Your body will also adapt quicker to a smaller dose (however more frequent) and not be as susceptible to side effects.

Assuming even than 1-2 meals a day gives the same benefit as 5-6 meals a day, what it doesn’t do is provide your body with a steady flow of nutrients/income to the system. You’ll eat for a period fo 6-8 hours (in the case of intermittent fasting) and then for the next 16-18 hours that food will move through your digestive and excretory systems. But what else happens is as the food leaves your stomach it shuts down and stops working until another big slog of “work” comes through.

Essentially an on/off system. Not necessarily bad, but I assume you’ve heard that its better to let your air conditioning run in your home and reach homeostasis than to constantly run it on/off. Allowing it to steadily make small adjustments is more efficient.

This is true of an assembly line and almost any process - the function of on/off of massive slugs of “work” is less efficient and more exhaustive to the “system” than to let the “system” continually run at a smaller load of “work.” Its the base idea for things like Six Sigma and Process Innovation. Reaching a point of efficiency in the system that allows it to perform optimally and so that all equipment is performing work and not either waiting or offline. Our bodies are essentially just very refined/advanced machines.

That is my reasoning at least. But you’ll get greater insulin spikes in one big meal, than 3-4 smaller meals. Because the first small meal will adjust your body to the level of insulin needed (and assuming the same macro’s in the remaining meals) will continue at that level for subsequent meals. That’s why cheat meals shock your metabolism, because its a big slug of “work” out of the norm, so your body goes to super burn mode and then you burn more calories of the subsequent smaller meals.

I hope that made sense and wasn’t just worthless rambling. If so, I apologize.

Anyone else here played with IF(Intermittant Fasting)?, eating in an 8 hour window? Ive done a decent amount of time eating the same calories/macros with IF and with eating at regular intervals and honestly dont see much of a differance. I think whats best is what works for you

I don’t know any of the studies, nor have I read the thread to see people argue… But 6 meals/day works for me and “feels rit” whether I’m losing lbs, gaining, or trying to recomp… Also, eating “on the threes” (6am, 9, 12, 3, 6, 9) helps me to actually remember where I am and what I’m doing. As my final thought, I’m not as cranky when I eat on the threes… And I don’t get “foggy”.

QT that book is enteriely too long to quote but actualky research and hypothesis are the exact opposite to what you are saying. The GI system was not biologically built to be eating a bunch of small meals and to continual process food. It needs to build back of enzymes replicate sloughed cells ect. Many people anecdotally report they feel a great deal better after a fast and even a purge where you empty everything. That seems to support the hypothesis that the gi system is not happy with working all the time.

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
You stretch your stomachs, same technique people who enter food competitions do. That’s why when people eat less food before Thanksgiving (to save room) they are defeating themselves because it shrinks their stomachs. That’s also why when you eat smaller meals your stomach shrinks and allows you to forego some hunger pangs/issues.

I guess I don’t see gorging as a healthy option. I’ve eaten some pretty large meals before and yea its fun, but that’s a huge slug on the system. Do what you will with your system, I’m glad its paying off for you, to me its unhealthy. [/quote]

Why? I would love to see some support. And no your analogy doesn’t cut it

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I guess I don’t see gorging as a healthy option. I’ve eaten some pretty large meals before and yea its fun, but that’s a huge slug on the system. Do what you will with your system, I’m glad its paying off for you, to me its unhealthy. [/quote]
Isn’t that what BB/strength training require?

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
The GI system was not biologically built to be eating a bunch of small meals and to continual process food.[/quote]

This isn’t true as some flat rule. Your body was built to adapt.

You not eating for 6 hours doesn’t really effect cell replication. The release of “enzymes” is also something that the body adapts to.

This is one reason we have to be careful about using studies not done on people with muscle growth as the primary goal.

Exercise changes the effects of what you eat and when drastically in itself.

? Feeling “better” is far lesser the goal in this discussion than what builds the biggest bodies. “Better” is about as subjective as you can get and arbitrary.

[quote]flch95 wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I guess I don’t see gorging as a healthy option. I’ve eaten some pretty large meals before and yea its fun, but that’s a huge slug on the system. Do what you will with your system, I’m glad its paying off for you, to me its unhealthy. [/quote]
Isn’t that what BB/strength training require?[/quote]

No. Bodybuilding doesn’t require gorging to that degree. He is talking about 4-5,000calories in one sitting. That is WHY many of us split our meals up throughout the day.