[quote]flch95 wrote:
What if the caloric requirements for someone exceeds their physical capacity to either process food or take in large amounts? There are only but so many hours in a day to consume the calories. If the caloric needs require a person to eat every 3 hrs in order to get the required amount in but the stomach takes 5-7 hrs to process food, how does one reconcile this? You can’t refill a tank of gas if it still has half a tank left.[/quote]
What tanks of gas have you been using. If it is half full than the most you will do is refill the half of the tank that is empty. Think of it this way. You can either wait till your empty and refill, like eating 2 big meals a day, or you can refill the little that you use a bunch of times, like eating 6 smaller meals a day. At the end of the day you have supplied yourself with sufficient fuel to make it to your destination and have spent and used exactly the same amount of gas albeit two completely different ways.
[quote]flch95 wrote:
What if the caloric requirements for someone exceeds their physical capacity to either process food or take in large amounts? There are only but so many hours in a day to consume the calories. If the caloric needs require a person to eat every 3 hrs in order to get the required amount in but the stomach takes 5-7 hrs to process food, how does one reconcile this? You can’t refill a tank of gas if it still has half a tank left.[/quote]
What tanks of gas have you been using. If it is half full than the most you will do is refill the half of the tank that is empty. Think of it this way. You can either wait till your empty and refill, like eating 2 big meals a day, or you can refill the little that you use a bunch of times, like eating 6 smaller meals a day. At the end of the day you have supplied yourself with sufficient fuel to make it to your destination and have spent and used exactly the same amount of gas albeit two completely different ways. [/quote]
That isn’t biology.
There is a question to what is actually being absorbed if you try to get all calories in at once.
Your metabolic rate and digestive rate are what I was discussing at the start to make this clear. These are personal biological variables and they need to be addressed.
The blanket statement answer you gave does not work for everyone.
Go about 3/4 of the way down for a ridiculous Dave Tate anecdote about bulking.[/quote]
[quote]“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”
At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.
“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”
“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put 'em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that fucker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it.”
“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that fucker. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”
This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.
“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You fucking can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.
And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. 'Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a fuck about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!"
Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn’t get much fatter. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my life, though.
â?¢ I gotta go, Nate. Gotta take a piss. E-mail me if you need anything.[/quote]
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Good post.
I think I just came to a groundbreaking revolutionary discovery:
“There is more than one way to skin a cat.”
Lol[/quote]
Thanks. I agree. People need to do what works for them.
But, I actually think PX’s main point in this thread is pretty reasonable. Trainees who’ve been eating the typical, American, ad libitum diet probably need to learn to eat consistently as well as healthily. I personally find that I make worse food choices when I’m not eating with consistency.
An underlying issue to consider is that most people aren’t getting that coveted 1g protein per pound unless they are actually trying. So, if you aren’t eating consistently, you probably aren’t getting enough protein and you probably aren’t keeping very good track of your macros, generally. [/quote]
I agree with your last paragraph for sure.
It really has jack all to do with meal frequency, reasonably speaking of course, and is all about total calories and macro breakdown.
I will even go so far as to say that it’s mostly about total cals and protein.
Hit your 3,000 calories and 250 grams of protein and for most people in most circumstances you’re good to go.
The carbs to fats won’t make or break a beginner.[/quote]
That is essentially how eat, ‘300g pro a day, make up the cals with carbs or fats’ I doubt I’ll ever end up on a stage but its serving me well so far.
[quote]flch95 wrote:
What if the caloric requirements for someone exceeds their physical capacity to either process food or take in large amounts? There are only but so many hours in a day to consume the calories. If the caloric needs require a person to eat every 3 hrs in order to get the required amount in but the stomach takes 5-7 hrs to process food, how does one reconcile this? You can’t refill a tank of gas if it still has half a tank left.[/quote]
What tanks of gas have you been using. If it is half full than the most you will do is refill the half of the tank that is empty. Think of it this way. You can either wait till your empty and refill, like eating 2 big meals a day, or you can refill the little that you use a bunch of times, like eating 6 smaller meals a day. At the end of the day you have supplied yourself with sufficient fuel to make it to your destination and have spent and used exactly the same amount of gas albeit two completely different ways. [/quote]
That isn’t biology.
There is a question to what is actually being absorbed if you try to get all calories in at once.
Your metabolic rate and digestive rate are what I was discussing at the start to make this clear. These are personal biological variables and they need to be addressed.
The blanket statement answer you gave does not work for everyone.[/quote]
I did not give a blanket statement. I said that there are multiple ways to reach the same ending macros and caloric intake. Some people work better when they completely empty the tank than fill up. Some people work better when they fill it up a few smaller times. At the end of the day if it works for you do it just make you stick to the values you need.
I have my degree in Biology. I am pretty sure I understand that we are not all made from a cookie cutter. I understand the differences between individuals.
[quote]flch95 wrote:
What if the caloric requirements for someone exceeds their physical capacity to either process food or take in large amounts? There are only but so many hours in a day to consume the calories. If the caloric needs require a person to eat every 3 hrs in order to get the required amount in but the stomach takes 5-7 hrs to process food, how does one reconcile this? You can’t refill a tank of gas if it still has half a tank left.[/quote]
What tanks of gas have you been using. If it is half full than the most you will do is refill the half of the tank that is empty. Think of it this way. You can either wait till your empty and refill, like eating 2 big meals a day, or you can refill the little that you use a bunch of times, like eating 6 smaller meals a day. At the end of the day you have supplied yourself with sufficient fuel to make it to your destination and have spent and used exactly the same amount of gas albeit two completely different ways. [/quote]
That isn’t biology.
There is a question to what is actually being absorbed if you try to get all calories in at once.
Your metabolic rate and digestive rate are what I was discussing at the start to make this clear. These are personal biological variables and they need to be addressed.
The blanket statement answer you gave does not work for everyone.[/quote]
I did not give a blanket statement. I said that there are multiple ways to reach the same ending macros and caloric intake. Some people work better when they completely empty the tank than fill up. Some people work better when they fill it up a few smaller times. At the end of the day if it works for you do it just make you stick to the values you need. [/quote]
I was more directing that at the statement:
This isn’t exactly true because of absorption issues.
For instance, at one point I was eating up to about 2-3lbs of steak a day. That ain’t happening in two meals. There is no way in hell my body is going to absorb or even comfortably digest that much food in only two sittings and definitely not one.
[quote]flch95 wrote:
What if the caloric requirements for someone exceeds their physical capacity to either process food or take in large amounts? There are only but so many hours in a day to consume the calories. If the caloric needs require a person to eat every 3 hrs in order to get the required amount in but the stomach takes 5-7 hrs to process food, how does one reconcile this? You can’t refill a tank of gas if it still has half a tank left.[/quote]
What tanks of gas have you been using. If it is half full than the most you will do is refill the half of the tank that is empty. Think of it this way. You can either wait till your empty and refill, like eating 2 big meals a day, or you can refill the little that you use a bunch of times, like eating 6 smaller meals a day. At the end of the day you have supplied yourself with sufficient fuel to make it to your destination and have spent and used exactly the same amount of gas albeit two completely different ways. [/quote]
That isn’t biology.
There is a question to what is actually being absorbed if you try to get all calories in at once.
Your metabolic rate and digestive rate are what I was discussing at the start to make this clear. These are personal biological variables and they need to be addressed.
The blanket statement answer you gave does not work for everyone.[/quote]
I did not give a blanket statement. I said that there are multiple ways to reach the same ending macros and caloric intake. Some people work better when they completely empty the tank than fill up. Some people work better when they fill it up a few smaller times. At the end of the day if it works for you do it just make you stick to the values you need. [/quote]
I was more directing that at the statement:
This isn’t exactly true because of absorption issues.
For instance, at one point I was eating up to about 2-3lbs of steak a day. That ain’t happening in two meals. There is no way in hell my body is going to absorb or even comfortably digest that much food in only two sittings and definitely not one.
These are variables that need to be discussed.[/quote]
I understand that and my statement was not disagreeing with you. What I am saying is I am sure there is some people out there who think/can digest that much steak properly in 2 meals. There are also people who are like you and me who eat that much steak in a day but over 4-6 meals because 1. Its the only way we can physically fit the food in us and 2. Its the way our (personal) digestive system works best.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
I gotta agree with X for the most part here. I think 6 meals a day, or the goal of, is good for a beginner.
[/quote]
I fear that you and the good Professor doth disagree Mr. 3.16
[quote]Professor X wrote:
NO, eating 6 meals a day is not what anyone here is saying.
[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Doofus, I am not telling people to eat 6 meals a day.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Whew, that’s a relief. I will attempt to read the entire thread next time we have a thread discussing bulking and eating excess cals while disregarding counting macros.
[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
I understand that and my statement was not disagreeing with you. What I am saying is I am sure there is some people out there who think/can digest that much steak properly in 2 meals. There are also people who are like you and me who eat that much steak in a day but over 4-6 meals because 1. Its the only way we can physically fit the food in us and 2. Its the way our (personal) digestive system works best. [/quote]
Ok then
…but I will make the statement that I doubt most people can digest that much food comfortably or in its entirety if they tried to shove that much food down at one time.
I will give one extreme personal scenario. At one point, I was trying to get most of food intake from liquid sources (protein shakes). Even with fiber supplementation I ended up having digestive problems for a while and literally shitting out the protein shakes directly (ie. vanilla protein shake in the bowl).
A person eating 2+lbs of beef a day will likely need to spread that out over the course of the day if for no other reason than COMFORT and the likelihood of decreased absorption.
We can’t test this stuff without someone living in a hospital setting. What I can do is use my education to this point and personal experience in these matters to let me know that absorption is a major issues just like making sure you eat enough is.
“Look at the cows they eat all the day. Now look at the panthers they eat once a day, and which one look in better shape.
It is not the quantity you eat or the quantity of time which make the champion, but the quality and not whatever the quantity of time you eat, my body is cleaver enough to know when I should eat, he let me know by sending signals. HE TELL ME SERGE YOU HAVE TO EAT. Then I believe in my body, I listen to him I EAT, My body does not listen to any article or scientist to tell him when to eat. You think that science knows more about your body that your body itself?..Listen to yourself before to listen to others.
I eat so much in one meal that I don?t need to eat 6/8 times a day, I leave that to those who don’t have a big appetite.”
[quote]sonnyp wrote:
Herschel Walker claims he eats one meal a day. He is not the biggest guy in the world, but he has a very visible musulature at 6 foot one and 225 lbs.[/quote]
Some impressive looking lifters I have known have said something similar.
I also know one who expanded more on it after knowing him for years in the gym. He admitted that when he was building most of that size he did eat more. He MAINTAINED that size on one meal a day or maybe two.
There is a huge difference between STAYING big and GETTING big.
Herschel Walker also hasn’t made much physical progress as far as muscle growth in decades…but he has STAYED big.
“Look at the cows they eat all the day. Now look at the panthers they eat once a day, and which one look in better shape.
It is not the quantity you eat or the quantity of time which make the champion, but the quality and not whatever the quantity of time you eat, my body is cleaver enough to know when I should eat, he let me know by sending signals. HE TELL ME SERGE YOU HAVE TO EAT. Then I believe in my body, I listen to him I EAT, My body does not listen to any article or scientist to tell him when to eat. You think that science knows more about your body that your body itself?..Listen to yourself before to listen to others.
I eat so much in one meal that I don?t need to eat 6/8 times a day, I leave that to those who don’t have a big appetite.”
Just thought I’de share.
[/quote]
I think more like that NOW.
In general, I eat more when hungry and not by any set schedule…but I seriously doubt I would look like this had I done that from the start.
[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
I understand that and my statement was not disagreeing with you. [/quote]
Just give it a rest Berg.
You’re agreeing with him and he’s still trying to argue with you lol
Welcome to T Nation buddy.
“Look at the cows they eat all the day. Now look at the panthers they eat once a day, and which one look in better shape.
It is not the quantity you eat or the quantity of time which make the champion, but the quality and not whatever the quantity of time you eat, my body is cleaver enough to know when I should eat, he let me know by sending signals. HE TELL ME SERGE YOU HAVE TO EAT. Then I believe in my body, I listen to him I EAT, My body does not listen to any article or scientist to tell him when to eat. You think that science knows more about your body that your body itself?..Listen to yourself before to listen to others.
I eat so much in one meal that I don?t need to eat 6/8 times a day, I leave that to those who don’t have a big appetite.”
Just thought I’de share.
[/quote]
Guys physique was awesome. (Obligatory no homo)
[quote]krillin wrote:
I actually find this discussion interesting without all of the useless arguing. I thought his message was clear that he was talking about consistency.[/quote]
“Look at the cows they eat all the day. Now look at the panthers they eat once a day, and which one look in better shape.
It is not the quantity you eat or the quantity of time which make the champion, but the quality and not whatever the quantity of time you eat, my body is cleaver enough to know when I should eat, he let me know by sending signals. HE TELL ME SERGE YOU HAVE TO EAT. Then I believe in my body, I listen to him I EAT, My body does not listen to any article or scientist to tell him when to eat. You think that science knows more about your body that your body itself?..Listen to yourself before to listen to others.
I eat so much in one meal that I don?t need to eat 6/8 times a day, I leave that to those who don’t have a big appetite.”
Just thought I’de share.
[/quote]
I think more like that NOW.
In general, I eat more when hungry and not by any set schedule…but I seriously doubt I would look like this had I done that from the start.[/quote]
He did.
You see, you are preaching consistency (I completely agree), you are talking about absorption (I disagree) and I am giving you another view point. Anybody here that was raised on a farm understands getting the majority of your calories in two meals (breakfast and dinner). The body adapts.
“Seriously doubting” is not a fact, it is your own personal opinion and experience. Nothing wrong with that. You talk about what you know and what you have experienced.
It has been said since the start, more then one way to skin a cat.
I haven’t seen any research or literature indicating that your body is less efficient at absorbing nutrients depending on meal frequency. I remember it was a popular belief that the body could not digest a certain amount of protein, and that that any excess would be excreted. But hasn’t this been de-bunked thoroughly? The human body is so much more adaptable than that.
I believe absorption, to the extent it can be influenced at all, is more an issue of nutritional quality versus nutritional timing. Cordain, et al talk about leaky gut syndrome quite a bit, and there seems to be some evidence that certain foods may cause intestinal or bowel hyperpermeability lowering the efficiency of micro-nutrient absorption. I’m not sure I believe this is as significant as the paleo crowd does, but it does make me wonder about the efficacy of IIFYM.
[quote]krillin wrote:
I actually find this discussion interesting without all of the useless arguing. I thought his message was clear that he was talking about consistency.[/quote]
I think we can cover more if that is allowed.[/quote]
Consistency is key for sure. Day in day out, get it done, and results will follow. I can’t remember who said it, but it boiled down to that consistency proved to be a more important principle than nearly any other with regards to success in achieving goals - regardless which program was followed. I believe this would clearly apply to nutrition as well as the two go hand in hand. And getting back to the Serge quote, when the body says it’s time to eat, then it’s time! But certainly those cues can’t be the only ones a person follows, or naturally thin guys will stay that way.
