The Rule: 6 Meals/Day

[Professor_X]

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Fasting certainly helps heal the GI, if there is inflammation. Eating the right things and avoiding the wrong things most likely does a better job of healing (and more importantly preventing) this.

IF (fasting) is good for getting ripped, but losing body fat really is about staying ‘sensibly hungry’ insn’t it?

I believe (without solid proof) that any evidence showing digestion is improved by fasting, is probably founded in healing symptoms of leaky gut. Restoring gut flora and reducing inflammation will undoubtedly improve digestion (moreso that fasting).

Fasting allows the body to heal because it haults the assault of inflammatory/allergenic foods. These foods can vary from person to person, but grains and sugar are the two biggest perpetrators… Raw milk, especially if fermented WON’T cause GI issues in hardly anyone, especially after a period of healing the leaky gut (through healing diet and supplements). But RAW milk is often expensive, hard to find, and possibly, if you’re caught with it, will result in stiff penalties.

Regarding insulin elevation, have you heard of the velocity diet?
[/quote]

I agree with you here in a general sense but this is like the use of “colon cleansers”. Eating healthily most of the time trumps the odd use of it without that aspect.

[Smashingweights]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Constantly elevated insulin is also a good way to move towards the beetus[/quote]
I will refute every single one of your points, no matter how scientifically backed they are, simply by saying “genetics.”
You lose.[/quote]

Like was said in the other thread, you add NOTHING to these forums but instigation of more drama.

“Constantly elevated” insulin levels?

You mean that meal of steak and rice?

or 6 meals of donuts?

Is exercise a variable taken into consideration?

If you have nothing of importance to add here, please save of us the added drama.[/quote]
I addressed you in that other thread and I will leave it out of here.

Everyone on this site knows that everyone is different.
That’s why some guys are lean and do great off of a “low carb day” that has 500-600 grams of carbs (Ryan) while other guys are extremely low carb and consume tons of fats to be big strong and lean (double duece)

Everyone’s body is different, no two humans are exactly the same, we all know this.
There is no need to try and refute information based on genetic outliers.
It’s ok to speak in generalities at times.
Quite a few of the things that Ryan and others have said are generally correct and are generally accepted in the scientific and fitness communities but they obviously don’t apply to all 7 billion people on the planet.

It is unnecessary to say “well that isn’t completely true. Your genetics play a big roll in that process…”
Well of course it does.
There are genetic factors for some people that will change how their body reacts to a stimulus BUT that doesn’t make the original statement wrong.

Ayone who has read your posts knows that you throw around the “G” word a lot.
It’s a “catch all” statement and doesn’t need to be thrown out at every possible moment to discredit a post.

It’s like if I said “lifters should try to get at least 8 hours of sleep at night to aid in recovery” and you reply with “we’ll that depends on their GENETICS. Not everyone works optimally off of 8 hours.”

Do you see how that isn’t helpful at all and is just posted to start stuff?
Of course not everyone needs 8 to function optimally.
Some people only need 4.
Some may need 10.
We all get it.
Genetics play a role but when speaking in generalities about how body systems GENERALLY work it’s not needed.

I’m hoping this does not fall on deaf ears.

[Professor_X]

Simply put, the idea that meal frequency alone somehow damages insulin sensitivity in the long run is not correct.

Training changes how your body responds to food and the “damage” that can be done by certain foods.

Most studies done on this are done on sedentary people…which alone means it can not be directly applied to serious weight trainers.

Observation: Most of the people with the biggest muscles seem to have eaten throughout the day to build most of that size and did not only eat once or twice even though it is easy to MAINTAIN extreme muscle mass with less meal frequency and even less caloric intake.

[ryanbCXG]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Constantly elevated insulin is also a good way to move towards the beetus[/quote]
I will refute every single one of your points, no matter how scientifically backed they are, simply by saying “genetics.”
You lose.[/quote]

Like was said in the other thread, you add NOTHING to these forums but instigation of more drama.

“Constantly elevated” insulin levels?

You mean that meal of steak and rice?

or 6 meals of donuts?

Is exercise a variable taken into consideration?

If you have nothing of importance to add here, please save of us the added drama.[/quote]

TC the writer from here has labs to back up that yes “healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes.

Speaking of not adding anything to the forums. How are you

[Professor_X]

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

TC the writer from here has labs to back up that yes “healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes.

Speaking of not adding anything to the forums. How are you[/quote]

If he does then he can discuss them himself or you can post them. His article that he linked himself had this to say:

Do I have any proof? Admittedly, not a whole heck of a lot. I do have logic, experiential evidence, and at least a study or two on my side, though.

and

Lastly, there seems to be some experimental evidence to back me up. One study in particular seemed to corroborate my thoughts: “Effect of meal frequency on glucose and insulin excursions over the course of a day” (Holmstrup, et al, 2010).

That can be seen here and did NOT involve people looking to build the most muscle mass.

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/yeclnm/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract

Do you have more info to add to this?

[ryanbCXG]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

TC the writer from here has labs to back up that yes “healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes.

Speaking of not adding anything to the forums. How are you[/quote]

If he does then he can discuss them himself or you can post them. His article that he linked himself had this to say:

Do I have any proof? Admittedly, not a whole heck of a lot. I do have logic, experiential evidence, and at least a study or two on my side, though.

and

Lastly, there seems to be some experimental evidence to back me up. One study in particular seemed to corroborate my thoughts: “Effect of meal frequency on glucose and insulin excursions over the course of a day” (Holmstrup, et al, 2010).

That can be seen here and did NOT involve people looking to build the moost muscle mass.

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/yeclnm/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract

Do you have more info to add to this?
[/quote]

Lol at picking and choosing. And cherry pick some studies cool.

[BrickHead]

X, ever consider bringing up your legs a bit and stepping onstage, at least once? I mean, I always knew you were dedicated, but as of late, you’re expressing some serious, hardcore lifer type of dedication. Shame for all that not go onstage.

SERIOUS post here.

[RATTLEHEAD]

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
TC the writer from here has labs to back up that yes “healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes.

Speaking of not adding anything to the forums. How are you[/quote]

It’s a shame his posts were completely ignored by X (obviously), it’s great to see TC be active in threads!

[Smashingweights]

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
TC the writer from here has labs to back up that yes “healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes.
[/quote]
I would love for TC to chime in here.

[WhiteFlash]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Simply put, the idea that meal frequency alone somehow damages insulin sensitivity in the long run is not correct.

Training changes how your body responds to food and the “damage” that can be done by certain foods.

Most studies done on this are done on sedentary people…which alone means it can not be directly applied to serious weight trainers.

Observation: Most of the people with the biggest muscles seem to have eaten throughout the day to build most of that size and did not only eat once or twice even though it is easy to MAINTAIN extreme muscle mass with less meal frequency and even less caloric intake.[/quote]

It’s incredibly ironic that this post started with a pic of Olivia, a guy who ate (in todays terms) by IF and IIFYM. He could give two shits about “optimal” meal frequency. He ate what he wanted, when he wanted.

[Professor_X]

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

Lol at picking and choosing. And cherry pick some studies cool. [/quote]

Picking and choosing? This was the research attached to the link he posted. I am asking if you have seen others and to post them.

There apparently are none…which makes me wonder why you responded like you did.

[Professor_X]

Once again, it has been stated here that the following is fact:

“healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes

Does anyone have the data to back this up in SERIOUS WEIGHT LIFTERS WHO TRAIN SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK WITH THE GOAL OF OPTIMAL GAINS IN MUSCLE MASS?

[Professor_X]

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

It’s incredibly ironic that this post started with a pic of Olivia, a guy who ate (in todays terms) by IF and IIFYM. He could give two shits about “optimal” meal frequency. He ate what he wanted, when he wanted.[/quote]

From an interview with Sergio Oliva:

[quote]I told him no, no, no and that I just worked in construction whenever I could and worked at cleaning the back yard, whatever. Whatever I could do to make a buck at. He said, "Okay, don’t get me wrong, here is my card. I am a professional manager on the Cuban weightlifting team. I said, “Oh no, no way.” Because you have to have a good diet to be a weightlifter; you cannot go all day without eating and be having one meal at night, then going to the gym the next day. No way!

So he said, “Let me worry about that. You just come and see me.” And this is the honest truth. [/quote]

Apparently the eat once a day thing is new?

[Smashingweights]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Once again, it has been stated here that the following is fact:

“healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes

Does anyone have the data to back this up in SERIOUS WEIGHT LIFTERS WHO TRAIN SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK WITH THE GOAL OF OPTIMAL GAINS IN MUSCLE MASS?[/quote]
There are no studies done on the people you just described.
You won’t find studies with that sample base for virtually anything.
This same post can and does apply to every “fact” that was posted in this thread.
We already went through this in the heart disease thread.
Come on X, you know this.
The quote in question says “CAN lead to” not “does lead to.”
This is why every thread turns into the same round and round thing.

[Professor_X]

More from his interview about his time in Cuba when he first started training:

[quote]We are ready to go and they take the Cuban delegation to one private place and we had everything and ate like millionaires. We had everything but only got one day to go and see our families, but we could not bring anything to our families. Meanwhile your parents and your brothers and sisters hardly have one meal a day. That was killing me. It was killing me but there was nothing I could do, I had no control.

If they catch you taking anything out you go to jail and there is no time limit. So if you go to jail just maybe they will let you out. You could eat anything you wanted, like eggs, steak, vitamins and protein but when you get your pass to go and see your family: zip. Nothing.[/quote]

Sergio was basically a ward of the state in a sense. He was a competitor in a communist country. They fed them like kings while their families starved.

It would be false to believe he started training with a diet close to IF like was stated by someone above.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

There are no studies done on the people you just described…[/quote]

Ryan said that they were.

Why are you not trying to stop the disinformation happening here?

[Professor_X]

Apparently, the posters here have a disconnect with what is true and what isn’t also.

Ryan has said that 6 meals a day leads to pre-diabetes in regular trainers.

Smashingweights now says there is no study done on these people.

Why are they so confused on what is what?

[Professor_X]

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

It’s incredibly ironic that this post started with a pic of Olivia, a guy who ate (in todays terms) by IF and IIFYM. He could give two shits about “optimal” meal frequency. He ate what he wanted, when he wanted.[/quote]

More from Sergio Oliva’s interview:

[quote]You see what happened is: I always worked hard. I didn’t have the luxury that the other people had where they could lay down at the beach and get paid by Joe Weider and they get all this stuff. And I didn’t want to live in California. I wanted to stay in Chicago. So I was working in the foundry when it was 100 degrees outside, which meant it was almost 400 degrees inside.

You had to work hard all day. It was so intensive that in every contest, from the first one to the last one in '84, I only dieted three weeks out from the show. I didn’t need to diet; I was eating everything.

I would drink a gallon of milk every day, and I would drink two gallons of water a day. But I’m sweating all day long: ten, 12, 14 hours sometimes. And the thing is, when I was finished working in the foundry I would go to the Duncan YMCA and do my workout for another brutal three hours. Then I would go and spend one or two hours in English classes at night. By the time I got home I just eat and drop dead until the next day. My two days off were Saturday and Sunday.[/quote]

I must be missing all of that “fasting” he was doing.

[TC1]

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
TC the writer from here has labs to back up that yes “healthy” 6 meals and lifting can lead to pre diabetes.

Speaking of not adding anything to the forums. How are you[/quote]

It’s a shame his posts were completely ignored by X (obviously), it’s great to see TC be active in threads![/quote]

Thanks man. Much appreciated.

[Professor_X]

Conclusion:
People think Sergio fasted even though he ate like a horse.

People think studies on sedentary people apply directly to serious weight lifters with 20" arms who eat all day and train everyday.

Simply put…there seems to be a bunch of bullshit that is now “bro science”.

Once again, the goal here was to find out what has led to the biggest muscles…and the more extreme physiques.

According to Sergio…you had better make eating a pretty big part of the equation if your goal is to be really built.