The Romanian Deadlift

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]Neospartan wrote:
hum… for you guys/gals talking about reaching the floor I have a question…

Are you keeping your scapulas retracted?

If you do your arms will NOT be going straight down, instead they be in a diagonal. Once your upper body is almost/at parallel with the floor your hands will be at/bellow your knees. Thus leaving plenty of space between the plates and floor. (unless you got freaky short legs)

And as actionjeff explained, the bar will be very close to your thighs as you come up.

If you have doubts, take 135 and test it.[/quote]

No. As I mentioned, I can not touch the floor with a tight arch in my back. Therefore, I cannot touch the floor while doing RDLs.

I was just saying that touching the floor with a flat back, as others were talking about, is not really out of the ordinary and doesn’t require insane flexibility.

22

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so two girls can do it. well, im convinced![/quote]

Wait, are you talking about me and PMPM, or me and stronghold’s girlfriend?

23

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so two girls can do it. well, im convinced!

Wait, are you talking about me and PMPM, or me and stronghold’s girlfriend?[/quote]

you and stronghold’s girlfriend.

i tried doing the motion today with no weight just to see how far i could go. after i got to a certain depth i had to like inch my way down it took like 30 seconds, 30 slow seconds. i dont think you should round your back so it looks like a dirtbike ramp but i dont think keeping it straight as a diving board is going to permit you to move much weight.

i also fucked up something in my calf area- where it connects to the knee, feels more like a tendon than a muscle…could have to do with my little feat earlier today.

24

[quote]Neospartan wrote:
hum… for you guys/gals talking about reaching the floor I have a question…

Are you keeping your scapulas retracted?

If you do your arms will NOT be going straight down, instead they be in a diagonal. Once your upper body is almost/at parallel with the floor your hands will be at/bellow your knees. Thus leaving plenty of space between the plates and floor. (unless you got freaky short legs)

And as actionjeff explained, the bar will be very close to your thighs as you come up.

If you have doubts, take 135 and test it.[/quote]

Why would I want my scapula retracted?

25

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so two girls can do it. well, im convinced!

Wait, are you talking about me and PMPM, or me and stronghold’s girlfriend?

you and stronghold’s girlfriend.

[/quote]

Haha, thats only one girl then. They are one in the same.

26

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so two girls can do it. well, im convinced!

Wait, are you talking about me and PMPM, or me and stronghold’s girlfriend?

you and stronghold’s girlfriend.

Haha, thats only one girl then.[/quote]

ill let you two figure that one out.

oh, you guys date, didnt know that. thanks for forgetting to leave that part out til after i made the post, ya wank.

27

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so two girls can do it. well, im convinced!

Wait, are you talking about me and PMPM, or me and stronghold’s girlfriend?

you and stronghold’s girlfriend.

Haha, thats only one girl then. They are one in the same.[/quote]

when did you and dickbag break up? :slight_smile:

28

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so two girls can do it. well, im convinced!

Wait, are you talking about me and PMPM, or me and stronghold’s girlfriend?

you and stronghold’s girlfriend.

Haha, thats only one girl then. They are one in the same.

when did you and dickbag break up? :)[/quote]

shhhhh, he doesnt know yet.

29

I bring the bar down 3-4 inches below my knee cap. Has worked wonders for my squat, i really feel it in my hamstrings the day after. Im using ~500lbs for 6 reps.

I have no clue what i do with my scapula to be honest… so im guessing they are not retracted.

30

How deep you go will depend entirely on how flexible you are and how much you allow your knees to bend.
I keep my knees nearly straight, because I think if your bending them excessively you may as well do regular DLs.
I’m also not real flexible so I only go about 3 inches past my knees, the plates sit like 2 inches off the floor.
I Think RDLs like any exercise should be done with the maximum weight that you can use while keeping safe form.

31

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
…
Why would I want my scapula retracted?

[/quote]

To build a strong upper back…
…after all your working your upper back with more weight than, say, face pulls or rows.

…but like I said when the weight starts going up the scapulas will start to get pulled apart, but as long as you fight it the upper back won’t bend. (unless its too damn heavy). Next day, your upper back will be sore as fuck in addition to your hamstrings.

Now if you ask me specifically:

In OlyW the RDL is basically the same motion of the snatch & clean. Which starts once the bar gets to the knees and moves up to before the final triple extension.
–The only difference is the speed the bar is moving.

And to transfer the power generated by the legs+hips to the bar to get it flying up, you NEED a SOLID back from end to end. Otherwise the power won’t transfer (think of it as a lever arm), and bar will barely move.

…pause this clip at 0:07 seconds to see what I mean.

32

[quote]Frank.S wrote:

I have no clue what i do with my scapula to be honest… so im guessing they are not retracted.[/quote]

as Dan John would say/do:

have someone put the edge of their hand on the center of your upper back, and then you try to “break their finger” by squeezing your scapulas together.

33

[quote]Neospartan wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
…
Why would I want my scapula retracted?

To build a strong upper back…
…after all your working your upper back with more weight than, say, face pulls or rows.

…but like I said when the weight starts going up the scapulas will start to get pulled apart, but as long as you fight it the upper back won’t bend. (unless its too damn heavy). Next day, your upper back will be sore as fuck in addition to your hamstrings.

Now if you ask me specifically:

In OlyW the RDL is basically the same motion of the snatch & clean. Which starts once the bar gets to the knees and moves up to before the final triple extension.
–The only difference is the speed the bar is moving.

And to transfer the power generated by the legs+hips to the bar to get it flying up, you NEED a SOLID back from end to end. Otherwise the power won’t transfer (think of it as a lever arm), and bar will barely move.

…pause this clip at 0:07 seconds to see what I mean.

[/quote]

Every Olympic Pull I’ve ever seen has been done without the scapula forward, then shrugged.

Holding the scapula back just doesn’t make sense to me.
You’ll get more upper back development from using heavier weights than you will from holding your scapula back.

And if you really want a strong upper back, why use a hip extension exercise? Why compromise the effectiveness of the hip extension exercise to turn it into a hip extension/upper back exercise?

34

because it’s for your entire p-chain. and not just hip extension. it’s to teach proper o-lift technique.

if you want hip extension and to keep your upper back slack might as well just do rack pulls if you’re aiming to blast the weight.

if you want to teach yourself proper technique and illicit strength gains in your oly pulls specifically, then you RDL the right way.

if that doesn’t fit your goals though then do it however the f, you want. :-p if you don’t plan on olifting in competition anytime soon it doesn’t really matter

35

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Neospartan wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
…
Why would I want my scapula retracted?

To build a strong upper back…
…after all your working your upper back with more weight than, say, face pulls or rows.

…but like I said when the weight starts going up the scapulas will start to get pulled apart, but as long as you fight it the upper back won’t bend. (unless its too damn heavy). Next day, your upper back will be sore as fuck in addition to your hamstrings.

Now if you ask me specifically:

In OlyW the RDL is basically the same motion of the snatch & clean. Which starts once the bar gets to the knees and moves up to before the final triple extension.
–The only difference is the speed the bar is moving.

And to transfer the power generated by the legs+hips to the bar to get it flying up, you NEED a SOLID back from end to end. Otherwise the power won’t transfer (think of it as a lever arm), and bar will barely move.

…pause this clip at 0:07 seconds to see what I mean.

Every Olympic Pull I’ve ever seen has been done without the scapula forward, then shrugged.

Holding the scapula back just doesn’t make sense to me.
You’ll get more upper back development from using heavier weights than you will from holding your scapula back.

And if you really want a strong upper back, why use a hip extension exercise? Why compromise the effectiveness of the hip extension exercise to turn it into a hip extension/upper back exercise?
[/quote]

In weightlifting it’s used to build strength in a specific set of positions, i.e. maintaining a tight back throughout the lift in order to ensure as much force as possible is directed to the bar.

Retracting the scapular:

a) Ensures that the bar path remains close to the lifter
b) Enables the lifter to more fully relax the arms
c) Keeps the chest up and thus allows the lifter to assume a more upright start position
d) Helps keep the back tight and thus directs more force to the bar

It’s hard to see happening in male lifters (although the Naim footage on the 93 Ironmind tape is pretty good), but it’s easy to spot in lighter female lifters whose backs aren’t obscured by a ton of muscle.

36

+1

great posts

this is also not something to do in a conventional powerlifting pull because it makes you lower to the bar and you can’t lift as much weight- try retracting the scapula and going into a DL position, and then release them. You will probably get an inch or two of reduced ROM which is enormous.

Plus you probably aren’t strong enough to hold the position, and a lot of guys like to pull with the upper back rounded.

But just because you don’t do it in a heavy powerlifting deadlift, doesn’t mean it won’t carry over. That type of upper back strength is going to have a huge effect on lockout power and isometric strength of the traps at mid-shin and higher

I can’t comment on whether it is preferable to not worry about it and keep the back neutral on really heavy RDLs or not. I’m sure it’s OK. But the way I see it, it is a compound lift for the back and hamstrings and if you want to isolate the posterior chain completely without bringing the upper back into it so heavily then there are good mornings and other assistance lifts.

37

on that note, I have really been thinking about this in training conventional deadlifts.

If you pulled with the scapula retracted, then you will build HUGE upper back strength in your pull and be slightly lower to the ground forcing yourself to do more work to lift the same weight.

However, on a competition pull, obviously we do NOT want to pull with the scapula retracted and it wouldn’t even be possible for most anyway. We want the most biomechanically sound position to lift the most weight.

Just an fyi, Rippetoe used to advise against scapular retraction deadlifting, but recently changed his mind and said it is necessary for max strength development in training lifts.

So the question is, do we WANT to pull our training lifts this way, or do we want to pull them exactly the same as our competition max pulls? Kind of related to suits, shirts, and belts eh? wow.

Just as important, how does this apply to someone who might, for example, train with a volume oriented routine ala Sheiko, or not conventional pull heavy often in training (westside) and do DE lifts or deadlift variations? Does your deadlifting weight and volume make a big difference?

This is really sick actually. I have no idea at all but it seems like the kind of thing that could make a really big difference in ones training and that professional opinions could be split on.

38

I’ll be totally honest, I haven’t ever done the scapula retracted thing.

I just wanted to probe more so I could get a satisfactory answer. And now I’m satisfied.

I was about to write “Static Back Strenght isn’t important in Olympic Lifting” going on the grounds that Olympic Lifting is all about speed.

Then I thought about it for .5 seconds and realized I couldn’t post that without looking like a fool. Static Back Strength is obviously important in the Overhead Squat Portion of the Snatch and the Catch Position of the Clean & Jerk.

So I’ll give Dumbbell RDLs a shot with this new, correct, strict way of doing RDLs and perform them on Dynamic Effort Lower Body Days but I’ll keep my Konstantinovs way of doing RDLs for my Max Effort Lower Body days. This is because I’m pretty much sold on the idea that Konstantinovs’ way of doing RDLs probably has the best carry-over to conventional deadlifters. Check out my log and I’ll document the soreness factor.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_log/fightingscotts_log

If all goes well, doing RDLs “right” will be more Glute and Hamstring, since my current way of doing RDLs is mostly erectors.

I don’t expect to get a great upper back workout from it, however, because my upper back is pretty much straight gangster. The rest of me, however, is weak.

39

if your upper back is so gangster you won’t have trouble retracting during your set then =)

sounds fine though. It’s all about what gives you the best carryover of course.

As far as olifting yeah the isometric back strength is pretty important during the actual execution of the pull as well as the squats. If you have a really strong pull then the overhead squat strength is probably not going to be an issue once you develop the stability. I feel like I’m squeezing the bar off the floor and my back is really fighting during it, if you know what I mean.

40

[quote]ninearms wrote:
It’s hard to see happening in male lifters (although the Naim footage on the 93 Ironmind tape is pretty good), but it’s easy to spot in lighter female lifters whose backs aren’t obscured by a ton of muscle.[/quote]

I think its obvious here too- if the lifter pictured didn’t have a tight back (with retracted shoulder blades), his shoulders would be much further forward and he wouldn’t be in that perfect position for the clean