[quote]kroby wrote:
These bulking and cutting cycles are unhealthy. Ever hear of bulking clean?
It seems that this idea is a friggin’ unicorn.
If you eat healthy from the start, trimming the fat would be attained by simply adjusting your carb intake. While I don’t have pic proof, I’ve gained roughly 10 pounds since the beginning of the year. Everything is bigger. Thighs, glutes, waist… So are the body ratios. My waist, being bigger is still the same proportion to the rest of me. Would I “cut?” Hell no. I see veins throughout my shoulders and chest, yet still show bloat at the end of every day.
Though I believe that cardio will detract from your overall LBM, I won’t say don’t do it. I would suggest that you take immediate stock of your dietary intake, clean it up completely! Find out what to eat, when. Experiment on how your body reacts to certain foods at certain times.
It’s all about what you eat, when you eat. And train/sleep alot.
I hate the word cut.[/quote]
Exactly bro.
The problem is this generation is soft and lazy. Like John Davies (bestest S & C Coach in the nation) wrote, those who respect themselves will not eat any junk food (which would not be fed to animals even 20 years ago).
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
I would stay away from pizzas, fast food, alcohol and tobacco. When my friends eat Mcdonalds, I can always tell because I can smell the trans fat they are sweating!
[quote]Gunitgansta wrote:
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
[/quote]
Carbs are bad and unnatural? How much do you weigh?
Excess calories = bulk, clean or not. “clean” bulk, healthy, whatever hippie word you use for it will not prevent you from getting fat if you take too many calories in for too long.
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Are you confusing doughnut calories vs. turkey calories? Turkey calories will not make appreciable fat gains. Doughnut calories will, via insulin spiking and it’s subsequent “energy storing (fat)” mechanism. Turkey and it’s protein need the body to expend energy to digest. See the difference between (hippie?) clean bulk and fatty bulk?
Let’s see… since the concept of progress is primary to this “bulking cycle,” one would hope that they would get stronger (by more muscle development) and that becoming the primary weight gain. Eventually, the caloric intake would become maintenance, and no more weight gain. But you suggest that fat gain goes hand in hand with muscle gain. Perhaps even more fat gain than muscle gain?
Or
If one was to keep the same fat/muscle ratio throughout their “cycle,” is cutting at all necessary? Is this possible?
Or do you mean that people should go down to, say, 5% BF? What for? Are you competing?
Methinks you eat too many doughnuts. Hence your knee jerk reaction to fat gains. And what’s with the hippie thing? Maybe if I said some dorky thing like “organic,” sure, but clean? It’s the best word to describe the concept, as I’m using the adjective properly.
big69penisman? Haven’t seen you around here before. Maybe you should do a little reading about nutrition.
if he was truly 15% bodyfat thats fine… . I wouldnt recommend bulking above that though… . I got the impression that since he was short and had a high amount of abdominal fat that he was starting from a standard skinny-fat office worker begining… .
otherwise I dont think a persons weight has anything to do with whether they should bulk or cut first… . their total bodyfat percentage is the governing factor here imo. …
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I think other factors need to be noted. In my experience/observations, you can lower your bf% and increase lbm simultaneously if your diet is shoddy and you clean it up. This would be especially true for a beginner.
Someone starting a training routine at 15% bf and a sub-par diet could likely easily lower their bodyfat % by either: 1)losing fat and gaining muscle, or
2)maintaining fat mass and gaining muscle.
In this case, he probably could have increased kcal and still lost fat by improving food choices/timing.
Either way, if the diet is missing, there’s no reason to cut before starting to train. In my opinion, unless you’ve got your diet nailed, that’s the first thing to fix before assessing to bulk or cut. Train hard and eat clean and you’re bound to improve your body composition
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gunitgansta wrote:
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
Carbs are bad and unnatural? How much do you weigh?[/quote]
Of course they are unnatural. Did caveman eat them? Is a caveman physique not good enough for you?
I weight 215.3 lbs lean at 6’. I’m by no means big but at least I did not do anything unnatural and unhealthy that ruins my health and become a failure to my family just so I can say I’m big and strong.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Gl;itch.e wrote:
firstly dieting at 150lbs is a lot different than doing it at 190lbs or the heavier extremmes.
Why do you think anyone should be dieting at 150lbs? Being 15% body fat so great a burden that he shouldn’t have worked on any strength or muscle gains?
if he was truly 15% bodyfat thats fine… . I wouldnt recommend bulking above that though… . I got the impression that since he was short and had a high amount of abdominal fat that he was starting from a standard skinny-fat office worker begining… .
otherwise I dont think a persons weight has anything to do with whether they should bulk or cut first… . their total bodyfat percentage is the governing factor here imo. …
[/quote]
What he said. Don’t know where the OP was when he started his bulk (if he said it I missed it) but continuing to bulk at 15% is stupid. Generally speaking, the leaner you are the better the LBM:fat gain ratio is.
Diet down to 8-10% and hold at maintenance for a few weeks, then bulk with a modest surplus 10-20% over maintenance) until you get to the low-mid teens range.
[quote]Gunitgansta wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Gunitgansta wrote:
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
Carbs are bad and unnatural? How much do you weigh?
Of course they are unnatural. Did caveman eat them? Is a caveman physique not good enough for you?
I weight 215.3 lbs lean at 6’. I’m by no means big but at least I did not do anything unnatural and unhealthy that ruins my health and become a failure to my family just so I can say I’m big and strong.[/quote]
What the fuck? Cavemen didn’t lift weights either. They also didn’t drive, blow dry their hair or drink highly processed protein shakes scientifically flavored to taste something like a banana. What does that have to do with the statement you made? Carbs are not “bad”.
[quote]Arbitro wrote:
What he said. Don’t know where the OP was when he started his bulk (if he said it I missed it) but continuing to bulk at 15% is stupid. Generally speaking, the leaner you are the better the LBM:fat gain ratio is.
Diet down to 8-10% and hold at maintenance for a few weeks, then bulk with a modest surplus 10-20% over maintenance) until you get to the low-mid teens range.
[/quote]
With certainty, I am glad I never listened to advice like what you just gave when I began. I personally think the entire concept of worrying about your specific body fat number should be tossed unless it is in reference to obesity or possibly contest prep.
[quote]Gunitgansta wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Gunitgansta wrote:
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
Carbs are bad and unnatural? How much do you weigh?
Of course they are unnatural. Did caveman eat them? Is a caveman physique not good enough for you?
I weight 215.3 lbs lean at 6’. I’m by no means big but at least I did not do anything unnatural and unhealthy that ruins my health and become a failure to my family just so I can say I’m big and strong.[/quote]
What proof do we have that cavemen didn’t eat fruits or vegetables?
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
[/quote]
If all carbs are “bad and unnatural” why do you eat oats and potatoes?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Arbitro wrote:
What he said. Don’t know where the OP was when he started his bulk (if he said it I missed it) but continuing to bulk at 15% is stupid. Generally speaking, the leaner you are the better the LBM:fat gain ratio is.
Diet down to 8-10% and hold at maintenance for a few weeks, then bulk with a modest surplus 10-20% over maintenance) until you get to the low-mid teens range.
With certainty, I am glad I never listened to advice like what you just gave when I began. I personally think the entire concept of worrying about your specific body fat number should be tossed unless it is in reference to obesity or possibly contest prep.[/quote]
And why is that? You think that your current bf% level has nothing to do with how much fat or LBM you gain (overall genetics aside), or that you can control your partitioning 100% with training & “food timing” regardless?
So… if my diet consists of nothing but turkey & oats, for instance, and my maintenance is 2000 calories/day, and I eat 2500 calories of the turkey & oats… am I not going to gain weight because these are “clean” foods?
Ok, let’s say that the thermal effect of food (TEF) for turkey protein is 10%, so let’s say instead I eat another 10% calories over that 2500 (now at 2750) - as someone said, turkey calories vs doughnut calories - am I not going to gain the same amount of weight?
Thats why I stick with Tuna, Oats, Chicken Breast and Potatoes bro. They all have minimal fat and low GI. When cutting I just eliminate all Carbs (which are also bad and unnatural according to Poliquin).
If all carbs are “bad and unnatural” why do you eat oats and potatoes?[/quote]
Exactly. I think perhaps the poster was referring to his pizza, etc list he later listed in his reply.
Or I would hope so, because saying carbs are bad and cavemen didn’t eat carbs is just plain retarded.
[quote]Arbitro wrote:
So… if my diet consists of nothing but turkey & oats, for instance, and my maintenance is 2000 calories/day, and I eat 2500 calories of the turkey & oats… am I not going to gain weight because these are “clean” foods?
Ok, let’s say that the thermal effect of food (TEF) for turkey protein is 10%, so let’s say instead I eat another 10% calories over that 2500 (now at 2750) - as someone said, turkey calories vs doughnut calories - am I not going to gain the same amount of weight?
[/quote]
That was a pretty uneducated post.
Donuts contains high amount of fat and carbohydrates at the same time. Your insulin will be elevated and fat will be stored more readily.
[quote]Gunitgansta wrote:
Arbitro wrote:
So… if my diet consists of nothing but turkey & oats, for instance, and my maintenance is 2000 calories/day, and I eat 2500 calories of the turkey & oats… am I not going to gain weight because these are “clean” foods?
Ok, let’s say that the thermal effect of food (TEF) for turkey protein is 10%, so let’s say instead I eat another 10% calories over that 2500 (now at 2750) - as someone said, turkey calories vs doughnut calories - am I not going to gain the same amount of weight?
That was a pretty uneducated post.
Donuts contains high amount of fat and carbohydrates at the same time. Your insulin will be elevated and fat will be stored more readily.
Try read up on the nutrition articles here.[/quote]
Can you clear up the confusion at hand about your statement and carbs being bad???
Were you referring to carbs in general or just processed refined carbs?
I eat Carbs in the way JB does: seperated into P+C and P+F.
However, ALL carbs are bad for you according to Charles Poliquin.
“The best rule of thumb for athletes and non-athletes is to stay as much as possible with a caveman diet – if it doesn’t run, or swim or fly or if it’s not green, don’t eat it,” - Charles Poliquin."
Such words of wisdom.
when I don’t eat Carbs or eat in the manner of Massive Eating, I gain no fat despite consuming 5000-6000 calories
[quote]Gunitgansta wrote:
I eat Carbs in the way JB does: seperated into P+C and P+F.
However, ALL carbs are bad for you according to Charles Poliquin.
“The best rule of thumb for athletes and non-athletes is to stay as much as possible with a caveman diet – if it doesn’t run, or swim or fly or if it’s not green, don’t eat it,” - Charles Poliquin."
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Gunitgansta wrote:
I eat Carbs in the way JB does: seperated into P+C and P+F.
However, ALL carbs are bad for you according to Charles Poliquin.
“The best rule of thumb for athletes and non-athletes is to stay as much as possible with a caveman diet – if it doesn’t run, or swim or fly or if it’s not green, don’t eat it,” - Charles Poliquin."
Such words of wisdom.
So, where does he say carbs are bad???
[/quote]
More important, even if he did say it, why would someone take that as truth and the end of discussion?
And why is that? You think that your current bf% level has nothing to do with how much fat or LBM you gain (overall genetics aside), or that you can control your partitioning 100% with training & “food timing” regardless?
[/quote]
I think people like you who put so much focus into body percentage numbers will never force your body to accept a larger weight set point that significant beyond where you began in excess of 50lbs. No, I do not think that whether my body fat percentage is 14.3% or 15.9% has an ounce of difference as far as muscle gained over body fat. The entire process is much more complex than believing that no one should ever “bulk up” or work on gaining if they are 15% body fat. I think the entire focus on body fat percentage is largely a waste unless someone is truly “overfat”. I also seriously doubt I would have gained anywhere near the way I have had that been my primary focus.
There, was that enough info for you to understand why I am glad I never listened to information like what you stated? The human body is a very complex and adaptive machine. To believe that it operates under such constricted perimeters as to not gain much muscle simply because you are a certain body fat percentage is limited thinking.