I suppose worse are those using high doses of AAS and never achieve much of anything close to competitive bodybuilders. At least the competitive bodybuilders got some reward for their risk.
Then my questions:
Modest amounts? Well, it depends on the drugs being used, but let’s assume all you have it test. I wouldn’t exceed 400 to 500 mg a week and I wouldn’t do it for longer than 8 weeks. And sure, I’d avoid orals. And yeah, a blast cruise falls out of my definition of safe and moderate if the weekly dosage is about 100 to 200 mg. of test.
By today’s standards, I would agree for testosterone only (though I never took more than 200mg/wk of testosterone cypionate). What if an anabolic steroid were included, e.g., Equipoise, Deca, etc.? Is it still a total mgs per week to be between 400 to 500mg/wk?
Do you consider this a hard fast rule?
At the time I was taking about 400mg/wk injectable AAS, and 20mg/day of an oral AAS for cycles of 8 weeks, I considered myself a rather heavy steroid user. So your parameter puts me above modest level, which I would agree is how I would rate my use.
What is most eye opening to me is that most today are talking in grams/wk amounts to not be unusual.
I think you are all overcomplicating this. The major reason is steroids, peptides etc also make the heart grow. The heart doesn’t just grow from the outside, it thickens which means it’s internal volume drops. When this happens it reduces the stroke volume, how much blood is pumped per beat, so it has to work harder and harder. This strain provides mechanical activation of the fibers which makes it grow in a runaway effect. But unlike muscles, you don’t get more vascularity, the tiny vessels supplying it get blocked and the huge heart doesn’t stand a chance. (myocarditis doesn’t help either!)
who is deliberately ignorant?
“Who is deliberately ignorant?”
The guy who decides that all science and media must be wrong. And then entrusts his ears and mind mind to those, whose only intent is sewing discord and confusion. Do your own real research, but follow the money on the sources of said research. Otherwise, you are following the exact path of Deliberate Ignorance. 
Bwahahaaha, says the guy who beleives what the media tells him. Did your reseach come from CNN? Will you cry when Trump is installed in 2024? You are the sheep. Wake up before it’s too late.
Wow so much denial here
Nice… Gaslighting: aka GOPea-Brain 101
“Denial”, says the guy hanging his hat on 3rd, 4th, and 5th-hand information.
I read the actual medical study sources. Of which, there are very few of actual credibility given the (still) relatively short time span. I guess you believe what Tucker Carlson tells you? Well , you know: Losers of a feather and all…
Later, pinhead!!
@TC_Luoma do you think you can start a “Covid-19 and Vaccine” article to accommodate the thread hi-jackers who love their bunny trails into all things Covid and vaccines?
I bet I can find 100 people who regret taking the vaccine before anyone can find a single person who regrets not taking it
Of course you could. If someone were to regret not taking it they’d just take it.
Not that peoples’ feelings towards having taken it or not constitute a valuable data point at all.
Of course, they are dead, you can’t find them. I knew some of them.
I feel sorry for you being so ignorant
I would love to, but we’ve learned that anything related to Covid would likely have a “Bud-Light” effect, pissing off half our readers (depending on which stance we took) who’d then boycott us and buy all their supplements from Piggly Wiggly instead.
It wouldn’t matter. They are more about telling what they believe than having a real discussion anyway. They would find their way back to legitimate threads when they realize no one is there to listen. .
I agree with the dosage if we are going to say nearly everyone will avoid major issues with it (given they don’t stay on for long periods of time).
8 weeks while it is safe and conservative, I doubt it will have significant benefits for most people. Especially if they aren’t on TRT (assuming taking amount that has one near the top of the range for FT).
I agree here. They have their place, but for me, it just isn’t worth it regarding health.
I am assuming you are saying that it would be in your definition of safe if the weekly dose is 100 to 200 mg? That higher wouldn’t be safe?
I’d just question if this would be worth it to most people if they knew on average what the delta between natty and this approach would be. Let’s say a guy does 150 mg/wk test for TRT, then does one cycle a year at 500 mg/wk for 8-10 weeks. He isn’t going to be a whole lot bigger than he could get naturally. Maybe 10 lbs. I do see an advantage at being able to hold a bit more muscle at a leanness that would be much tough natural (having good T levels while cutting).
I only worry about increased hematocrit (assuming we’re not talking about orals, which come with their own baggage). Other than that, higher dosages probably aren’t a problem, unless we get ridiculous about it. But I’ve seen guys who look pretty damn good on just 200 mg of test a week.
I once had lunch with a well-known powerlifter who casually told me, “I just use massive amounts of test when planning for a competition. I use 2 grams.”