[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Shit, Bush actually got them to hold municipal elections ~ 4 years ago. Unfortunately they didn’t seem to spread or get the hang of it. Do you propose we overthrow their government and write a new constitution for them?
You live in a black and white world, don’t you?
We never hear a peep from Washington denouncing the horrors of the Saudi regime. All you give them, is weapons, pads on the back and invitations. If any other country had that level of religious intolerance, the White House will be demonizing them non-stop.
Here’s what you need to do: Stop sending them weapons,
Do we also blockade them so the Chinese don’t sell them weapons?
You live in a black and white world don’t you?
By what right do you want to blockade them? If the Chinese sells them weapons, then the Chinese will get the flack from pissed off people like myself.[/quote]
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Shit, Bush actually got them to hold municipal elections ~ 4 years ago. Unfortunately they didn’t seem to spread or get the hang of it. Do you propose we overthrow their government and write a new constitution for them?
You live in a black and white world, don’t you?
We never hear a peep from Washington denouncing the horrors of the Saudi regime. All you give them, is weapons, pads on the back and invitations. If any other country had that level of religious intolerance, the White House will be demonizing them non-stop.
Here’s what you need to do: Stop sending them weapons,
Do we also blockade them so the Chinese don’t sell them weapons?
You live in a black and white world don’t you?[/quote]
You don’t need to blockade the Chinese. Isn’t it enough that your country be doing the moral thing?
So your argument is that you should keep oppressing the people because if the moderates took over someone may assassinate their leaders at some point? How about just admitting that it’s wrong?
Yes they are, and I’m not blaming anyone for the Iranians actions. I’m blaming Americans for overthrowing their democratic government and installing a dictatorship.[/quote]
No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying I do not see any moderates risinig up and the ones who are are killed by the radicals. I say stop the radicals from rising up. Do you agree that Islamic radicals are indeed a problem or are you behind their cause?
What about the dictatorship of Mullahs they have in charge now? Are we responcible for that also? And who did the Iranians blame for their problems prior to US involvement in the overthrow of their leader?
You know full well that, if there’s a popular grassroots movement to kick out the Al-Sauds and reclaim their squandered wealth, the US will be among the first to condemn it and call it a terrorist actions. So spare us your pathetic obfuscations.[/quote]
You know full well that, if there’s a popular grassroots movement to kick out the Al-Sauds and reclaim their squandered wealth, the US will be among the first to condemn it and call it a terrorist actions. So spare us your pathetic obfuscations.
Yes, it’s called Al Qaeda.[/quote]
Well, if you think Al-Qaeda is a “popular grassroots movement” then no wonder you have a deeply flaw view of the matter.
You know full well that, if there’s a popular grassroots movement to kick out the Al-Sauds and reclaim their squandered wealth, the US will be among the first to condemn it and call it a terrorist actions. So spare us your pathetic obfuscations.
Yes, it’s called Al Qaeda.
Well, if you think Al-Qaeda is a “popular grassroots movement” then no wonder you have a deeply flaw view of the matter.[/quote]
You’re one talking about how it’s this international orgainzation which we can never destroy. . . blah blah blah.
Ok, which “popular grassroots movement” besides Al-Qaeda, are we talking about here?
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
You’re the one talking about how it’s this international orgainzation which we can never destroy. . . blah blah blah. [/quote]
So?
You take everything personally. Yes, neither you nor I can destroy Al-Qaeda. Deal with it.
Feminists, youth movements, secularists, progressists, Arab nationalists, republicans, etc.
Not that I think any of those has a chance to change Saudi Arabia (they’ve got neither guns nor ballot power), but in the hypothetical case where they unite and manage to overthrow the tyranny, Washington will be among the first to denounce it and demonize their movement. We’ve seen it happen dozens of times already.
P.S: Make an effort to use your brain a bit. It’s getting tiresome.
[quote]lixy wrote:
in the hypothetical case where they unite and manage to overthrow the tyranny, Washington will be among the first to denounce it and demonize their movement. We’ve seen it happen dozens of times already.
P.S: Make an effort to use your brain a bit. It’s getting tiresome.[/quote]
More than likely the movement will demonize the US as happened in Iran, Chile, Gaza, ect. I do not think the US would have moved to dethrone Bhutto if she was able to get control of Pakistan. Use your brain a bit also.
So your argument is that you should keep oppressing the people because if the moderates took over someone may assassinate their leaders at some point? How about just admitting that it’s wrong?
Yes they are, and I’m not blaming anyone for the Iranians actions. I’m blaming Americans for overthrowing their democratic government and installing a dictatorship.
No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying I do not see any moderates risinig up and the ones who are are killed by the radicals. I say stop the radicals from rising up. Do you agree that Islamic radicals are indeed a problem or are you behind their cause?
What about the dictatorship of Mullahs they have in charge now? Are we responcible for that also? And who did the Iranians blame for their problems prior to US involvement in the overthrow of their leader? [/quote]
Why would a revolution begin with fear of the world’s only superpower ready to crush it?
You are complaining about Islamic radicals taking over Saudi Arabia, what do you think the Saudis are? It is exactly what your country is supporting, and what I am complaining about.
The Iranians chose their current government through a popular revolution against a dictator. It has its flaws, but it’s a big step up from what your people imposed on them.
Now you’re justifying immoral actions because people might still criticize you?
SA wouldn’t be taken over by moderates. Not even close. Islamists (even more so) would rule. I want nothing to do with the Sauds, but let’s not slip into fantasy here.
Edit: Ah, but what’s this? The Catholic Church possibly setting up shop in SA? Now this will be interesting to watch. Better build a very, very, very sturdy church, and keep the parishoners away from the windows.
[i]The Vatican is in negotiations with Saudi Arabia to open the first Catholic church in the kingdom.
Archbishop Mounged El-Hachem, the papal envoy to Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Yemen and the United Arab Emirates said talks had started a few weeks ago, in the wake of King Abdullah�??s visit to Pope Benedict last November.
Currently, all Saudi citizens are required by law to be Muslim, and the Mutaween, or religious police, strictly prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions.
The last Christian priest was expelled from the kingdom in 1985…[/i]