The Pros and Cons of Quinoa

Diet and Nutrition
21

actually, Roberts, it seems to me that you mistook the OP’s intent. We aren’t discussing quinoa’s validity as a source of PROTEIN, but as a high-protein source of carbohydrates. (as compaired to say, rice or sweet potatoes)

my opinion: quinoa is a great source of carbs, and the added protein is just a “bonus”, if you will. every little bit helps.

nobody said ALL of your protein had to come from animal sources. In fact, as long as intake is sufficient (think 1g per lb or more) and comes from a variety of sources (both animal and plant derived) protein quality matters very little.

22

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
In fact, as long as intake is sufficient (think 1g per lb or more) and comes from a variety of sources (both animal and plant derived) [u]protein quality matters very little.[/u][/quote]

Why would that be true? serious question. I just don’t see how a quality of something you consume would not be a factor.

23

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
In fact, as long as intake is sufficient (think 1g per lb or more) and comes from a variety of sources (both animal and plant derived) [u]protein quality matters very little.[/u]

Why would that be true? serious question. I just don’t see how a quality of something you consume would not be a factor.

[/quote]

I am not entirely sure what he means either, although I see how what he says could make sense. We can’t get all our protein in it’s best form… we get our protein from a large supply of things, eggs, milk, fruits, vegetables, and grains. Not all of it can be micellar protein.

24

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
actually, Roberts, it seems to me that you mistook the OP’s intent. We aren’t discussing quinoa’s validity as a source of PROTEIN, but as a high-protein source of carbohydrates. (as compaired to say, rice or sweet potatoes)

my opinion: quinoa is a great source of carbs, and the added protein is just a “bonus”, if you will. every little bit helps.[quote]

ding ding ding we have a winner. quinoa can’t replace a protein source for us such as eggs or milk, but it sounds like a great candidate for replacing rice, or wheat, anything of that nature.

25

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
In fact, as long as intake is sufficient (think 1g per lb or more) and comes from a variety of sources (both animal and plant derived) [u]protein quality matters very little.[/u]

Why would that be true? serious question. I just don’t see how a quality of something you consume would not be a factor.

[/quote]

Read this: www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/what-are-good-sources-of-protein-protein-quality.html

“Athletes tend to get really obsessive about the issue (and of course supplement companies pander to that) but at a protein intake of 1-1.5 grams per pound of lean body mass coming from mixed high quality sources, quality just won?t matter.”

meaning if you are getting plenty of protein (say 200g a day) than the fact that you get, say, 25g from a low quality source (e.g. grains) won’t matter, because the complete proteins that make up the majority of your intake will compensate for the few that may be missing from the low quality source.

for a bunch of other articles discussing proteins go here:

www.bodyrecomposition.com/category/nutrition/protein

26

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
In fact, as long as intake is sufficient (think 1g per lb or more) and comes from a variety of sources (both animal and plant derived) [u]protein quality matters very little.[/u]

Why would that be true? serious question. I just don’t see how a quality of something you consume would not be a factor.

Read this: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/what-are-good-sources-of-protein-protein-quality.html

“Athletes tend to get really obsessive about the issue (and of course supplement companies pander to that) but at a protein intake of 1-1.5 grams per pound of lean body mass coming from mixed high quality sources, quality just won?t matter.”

meaning if you are getting plenty of protein (say 200g a day) than the fact that you get, say, 25g from a low quality source (e.g. grains) won’t matter, because the complete proteins that make up the majority of your intake will compensate for the few that may be missing from the low quality source.

for a bunch of other articles discussing proteins go here:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/category/nutrition/protein[/quote]

I know you are a Lyle McDonald fan, but I don’t see him quoting any research besides his own book.

That’s like when folks prove something about God by using the Bible.

are there any actual studies, or… .just Lyle research?

27

Here is an actual study that says quality does matter.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/U5900t/u5900t07.htm

and it is a “.org” not a “.com”

isn’t this the question of fresh, whole food being better than fast food? You can get calories and micro/macro nutrients from each, but isn’t one better than the other?

28

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
actually, Roberts, it seems to me that you mistook the OP’s intent. We aren’t discussing quinoa’s validity as a source of PROTEIN, but as a high-protein source of carbohydrates. (as compaired to say, rice or sweet potatoes)[/quote]

A re-read of my posts may make what I said clear.

But perhaps shorter will be clearer:

If your diet is such that less than 15% of your calories are from protein, then adding a food with 15% of calories from protein to your diet while keeping calories the same increases your protein intake.

So for my friend the quinoa does somewhat increase her protein intake.

However for a person who takes in 30-40% of their calories from protein, a food having less than 15% of its calories from protein is not one that is significant in boosting daily protein intake – indeed if replacing averaged diet content it will reduce protein intake. Of course it may be the case that it is replacing some fraction that is below average, but even so, it is so low protein as to be pretty irrelevant.

The simple illustration I gave of how one could do other dietary changes that will accomplish desired macronutrient effects and amino acids profiles shows that the proposition that bodybuilders ought to be shoving this stuff down their throats on account of its protein and amino acid profile is not so.

If one likes it and want to eat it for that reason, great.

If one thinks it is really giving a bodybuilding benefit compared to substitute plans very easily giving the same or better protein, one has been had. There is just no need to use or particular advantage in using quinoa in a bodybuilding diet. If your protein intake should be modified there are better ways; if your carb intake should be modified that can as or more easily be done other ways.

29

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Here is an actual study that says quality does matter.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/U5900t/u5900t07.htm

and it is a “.org” not a “.com”

isn’t this the question of fresh, whole food being better than fast food? You can get calories and micro/macro nutrients from each, but isn’t one better than the other?
[/quote]

I never said quality doesn’t matter whatsoever, I said that in the context of a diet providing sufficient amounts protein from a variety of sources (primarily animal sources), quality isn’t a “deal breaker”. so what if 20% of your protein comes from beans, nuts and grains? if the other 80% is from cheese, milk, and meat, then the results will be essentially identical.

the reason why no research is quoted in the articles is because they are in the book and there is no reason to cite them again.

and this has nothing to do with fresh food being different from fast food so I’m not going to address that.

30

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

Here is an actual study that says quality does matter.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/U5900t/u5900t07.htm

and it is a “.org” not a “.com”

isn’t this the question of fresh, whole food being better than fast food? You can get calories and micro/macro nutrients from each, but isn’t one better than the other?

I never said quality doesn’t matter whatsoever, I said that in the context of a diet providing sufficient amounts protein from a variety of sources (primarily animal sources), quality isn’t a “deal breaker”. so what if 20% of your protein comes from beans, nuts and grains? if the other 80% is from cheese, milk, and meat, then the results will be essentially identical.

the reason why no research is quoted in the articles is because they are in the book and there is no reason to cite them again.

and this has nothing to do with fresh food being different from fast food so I’m not going to address that.[/quote]

you said it matters very little.

I think Bill Roberts answered what I was asking

31

I have a “CON” for Quinoa - the problem with rinsing it off before cooking. I can’t use any of my strainers to rinse it off since the grain is so small. In addition, it’s tough to use a cup and try to strain it by that means.

32

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
actually, Roberts, it seems to me that you mistook the OP’s intent. We aren’t discussing quinoa’s validity as a source of PROTEIN, but as a high-protein source of carbohydrates. (as compaired to say, rice or sweet potatoes)

A re-read of my posts may make what I said clear.

But perhaps shorter will be clearer:

If your diet is such that less than 15% of your calories are from protein, then adding a food with 15% of calories from protein to your diet while keeping calories the same increases your protein intake.

So for my friend the quinoa does somewhat increase her protein intake.

However for a person who takes in 30-40% of their calories from protein, a food having less than 15% of its calories from protein is not one that is significant in boosting daily protein intake – indeed if replacing averaged diet content it will reduce protein intake. Of course it may be the case that it is replacing some fraction that is below average, but even so, it is so low protein as to be pretty irrelevant

[/quote]

your example is a complete red herring. nobody has advised anyone to replace meat or any other protein source with quinoa.

my contention has always been that quinoa is a fine addition to virtually any diet. Also that, because it is a high protein grain, REPLACING a low protein grain, such as rice, with an equal caloric amount of quinoa WILL boost ones protein intake (albeit only slightly)

in the end, in the context of sufficient protein intake, the difference of a few degrees of quality or a few grams will matter very little.

33

[quote]ghost87 wrote:
I have a “CON” for Quinoa - the problem with rinsing it off before cooking. I can’t use any of my strainers to rinse it off since the grain is so small. In addition, it’s tough to use a cup and try to strain it by that means. [/quote]

You could use a sock! :slight_smile:

34

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
actually, Roberts, it seems to me that you mistook the OP’s intent. We aren’t discussing quinoa’s validity as a source of PROTEIN, but as a high-protein source of carbohydrates. (as compaired to say, rice or sweet potatoes)

A re-read of my posts may make what I said clear.

But perhaps shorter will be clearer:

If your diet is such that less than 15% of your calories are from protein, then adding a food with 15% of calories from protein to your diet while keeping calories the same increases your protein intake.

So for my friend the quinoa does somewhat increase her protein intake.

However for a person who takes in 30-40% of their calories from protein, a food having less than 15% of its calories from protein is not one that is significant in boosting daily protein intake – indeed if replacing averaged diet content it will reduce protein intake. Of course it may be the case that it is replacing some fraction that is below average, but even so, it is so low protein as to be pretty irrelevant

your example is a complete red herring. nobody has advised anyone to replace meat or any other protein source with quinoa.[/quote]

No, the problem is you fail to grasp the point.

Generally a person either is or is not consuming quinoa at all, or in substantial quantities.

If the OP’s post, or other sources telling him quinoa is something bodybuilders should eat, has him considering consuming much increased amounts of quinoa, then if this is going to have any effect it is a question of whether he is going to CHANGE his diet or not in any way.

If he is not going to change his diet in any way then so much for changing it with regard to quinoa.

But if he is going to change his diet in some way then the question of a not-overly-limited mind is going to be to compare the proposed change to other proposed, convenient, and sensible changes.

If you want to argue that the merits of quinoa can only survive discussion where other potential changes are ruled right off the table for no reason at all, well then OK.

However if one is actually concerned with improving their bodybuilding diet, then alternate methods ought to be compared to, and your calling doing so a “red herring” is just false rhetoric. Which I suppose you are left to because the facts of what I said really can’t be disputed. The only thing that can be done is to make arguments such as you have done above, or to impute moods to me, and that sort of thing.

Sorry, it’s been explained fully already, no contrary facts or valid points have been made to the contrary – I really don’t want to and won’t deal with further non-substantive replies attributing the facts I presented to mood or the reasoning to “red herrings,” etc.

35

I appreciate the time you put into this forum Bill. It is nice to read posts that are as well spoken(typed) as yours.

36

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

If you want to argue that the merits of quinoa can only survive discussion where other potential changes are ruled right off the table for no reason at all, well then OK.
[/quote]

While I understand your argument, it’s a mistake to assume that there’s no reason at all to rule out sweet potatoes and similarly “better” choices. This is not purely science, this is food. People have to eat it. So if someone wanted to replace rice with something similarly palatable, would quinoa be the wrong choice?

37

[quote]wfifer wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:

If you want to argue that the merits of quinoa can only survive discussion where other potential changes are ruled right off the table for no reason at all, well then OK.

While I understand your argument, it’s a mistake to assume that there’s no reason at all to rule out sweet potatoes and similarly “better” choices. This is not purely science, this is food. People have to eat it. So if someone wanted to replace rice with something similarly palatable, would quinoa be the wrong choice? [/quote]

I think what he said was there are better choices than quinoa. And I think he means that as a bodybuilder (if that is the goal) why not eat foods with a better protein content?

he used the example of the sweet potato with cottage cheese as an option with more protein.

but from what I get with your question is specifically is quinoa better than rice or pasta?

38

i like how after three replies this thread
turned into a train wreck without reasonable discussion of the OP’s intent. as mentioned in many T-Nation articles, quinoa is a great food to add to your diet regardless of intent.

will replacing quinoa for other carbs be advantageous? depends. is it a miracle food? no. its just fucking food.

1/2 cup for some common carbs people bulk with from calorieking.com

Rice
Total Cals 103
Total Fat 0.2g
Total Carbs. 22.3g
Dietary Fiber 0.3g
Protein 2.1g

Quinoa
Total cals 127
Total Fat 2g
Total Carbs. 23.5g
Dietary Fiber 2g
Protein 4.5g

Instant Oats
Calories 97
Total Fat 1.6g
Total Carbs. 17g
Dietary Fiber 2.8g
Protein 4.1g

fresh cooked Yams

Calories 79
Total Fat 0.1g
Total Carbs. 18.8g
Dietary Fiber 2.7g
Protein 1g

so you can see quinoa is a great replacement for rice if you like, double the fiber, double the protein. And if youre really pounding back the food this can add up, amino acid complex shouldn’t be much of a concern if youre already eating high protein. and only a half gram difference in net carbs. that fiber will also give you a better insulin response for non-work out meals. and even a lot of bodybuilders dont get enough fiber.

its very comparable to plain old oats, but on the plus side much easier to eat in larger amounts than oats, or at least a lot of people perceive it that way. though inferior breakfast food on all accounts.

better than yams in most categories, maybe not taste or visual appeal.

so in the end yea quinoa can be a great alternative to other carb sources if youre looking for variety, and can actually suit your needs more depending on the situation (volumizing, dont like the taste of other carbs ect)

but its in no way the end all of carbs or reason to abandon other sources. i mean cmon, quinoa sushi? baked quinoa? quinoa and blueberries and brown sugar?

forgot to put potatoes in there, but what ever, you get the point.

and bread sucks.

39

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
i like how after three replies this thread
turned into a train wreck without reasonable discussion of the OP’s intent. as mentioned in many T-Nation articles, quinoa is a great food to add to your diet regardless of intent.

will replacing quinoa for other carbs be advantageous? depends. is it a miracle food? no. its just fucking food.

1/2 cup for some common carbs people bulk with from calorieking.com

Rice
Total Cals 103
Total Fat 0.2g
Total Carbs. 22.3g
Dietary Fiber 0.3g
Protein 2.1g

Quinoa
Total cals 127
Total Fat 2g
Total Carbs. 23.5g
Dietary Fiber 2g
Protein 4.5g

Instant Oats
Calories 97
Total Fat 1.6g
Total Carbs. 17g
Dietary Fiber 2.8g
Protein 4.1g

fresh cooked Yams

Calories 79
Total Fat 0.1g
Total Carbs. 18.8g
Dietary Fiber 2.7g
Protein 1g

so you can see quinoa is a great replacement for rice if you like, double the fiber, double the protein. And if youre really pounding back the food this can add up, amino acid complex shouldn’t be much of a concern if youre already eating high protein. and only a half gram difference in net carbs. that fiber will also give you a better insulin response for non-work out meals. and even a lot of bodybuilders dont get enough fiber.

its very comparable to plain old oats, but on the plus side much easier to eat in larger amounts than oats, or at least a lot of people perceive it that way. though inferior breakfast food on all accounts.

better than yams in most categories, maybe not taste or visual appeal.

so in the end yea quinoa can be a great alternative to other carb sources if youre looking for variety, and can actually suit your needs more depending on the situation (volumizing, dont like the taste of other carbs ect)

but its in no way the end all of carbs or reason to abandon other sources. i mean cmon, quinoa sushi? baked quinoa? quinoa and blueberries and brown sugar?

forgot to put potatoes in there, but what ever, you get the point.

and bread sucks.
[/quote]

Not very partial to yams personally, but quinoa has it’s positives so does oats… I personally eat steel oats so I’m betting some of those numbers are higher in that case. Steel oats for breakfast quinoa for lunch sounds good to me.

40

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
will replacing quinoa for other carbs be advantageous? depends. is it a miracle food? no. its just fucking food.

[/quote]

EXACTLY, that can be said about ANY food. that’s why posts like “is (x food) good or bad” are so ridiculous because NO food is “good” or “bad”. it just is. (I know, very zen)

finally, regarding Bill’s notion that one should just replace quinoa with sweet potatoes and cottage cheese…WTF? when someone asks for a good recipe for chicken do you say “why don’t you just eat beef instead?” how does that make ANY sense?

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
and bread sucks.
[/quote]

ok…because nobody ever got big or lean while eating bread right? give me a break. remember “its just fucking food.”