[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Are Bush-ites just unable to see the real problem that people are finding fault with?
And there we have it folks - People who support Bush are just wrong.
I knew this would somehow be made a Bush issue.
Where’s my prize?[/quote]
That isn’t what I wrote at all. Hedo has proven time and time again that he refuses to even acknowledge the cover up or the lie. He is only focusing on the “terror war”. I find that strange yet it seems that you, another Bush-ite are ready to run to his aid without unveiling the reason for why no one wants to even discuss the real problem. This isn’t about Bush…but about how his “followers” seem to accept even corrupt measures as long as it supports your political affiliation. In fact, let’s just limit it to Hedo and yourself.
It’s just never going to end, anything Bush haters can do to blame Bush for anytihng having to do with terrorism. It’s time to stop blaming and just realize he’s doing what he can to get the job done. If you want to take it back, mastermind terrorist plots don’t happen over night, or for that matter over 9 months. The groundwork for this whole war on terror was laid when the clinton administration closed their eyes to the growing terror threat in the world.
The fact of the matter is that terror is always going to be around, we have to do what we can to get rid of it, mistakes are made along the way. We can’t just curl up into a ball(spain and france) and pretend it doesn’t exsist. It must be met head on, and if mistakes are made so be it, this is not math or science it’s counterterrorism. There is no exact answer.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
hedo wrote:
I tried to anwser it in a manner simple enough for you to understand.
How’s that working out for you there, hedo?
I don’t think you can make it simple enough for some to unserstand.
[/quote]
Rainjack, I had half a mind to post earlier in agreement with your ABB post in an attempt to prevent my getting tackled and capped in the head 7X by the fellow Bush-ites. Instead, I decided to stay out of it, that time has apparently ended. I VOTED FOR THE MAN. If you put them both up for the same election tomorrow, I’d vote for him again. I’m a republican in a liberal stronghold (Chicago, IL). I put up with Bush bashing daily. Part of the reason I voted for Bush was because he rather decisively moved the war on terror from NYC to Baghdad. The incident in London, to me, is two steps in the wrong direction in the war on terror and to disregard it as a mistake is a continuation in the same direction. My argument is with Hedo, snipe, etc. and I’ll thank you not to stab me in the back.
[quote]lucasa wrote:
Rainjack, I had half a mind to post earlier in agreement with your ABB post in an attempt to prevent my getting tackled and capped in the head 7X by the fellow Bush-ites. Instead, I decided to stay out of it, that time has apparently ended. I VOTED FOR THE MAN. If you put them both up for the same election tomorrow, I’d vote for him again. I’m a republican in a liberal stronghold (Chicago, IL). I put up with Bush bashing daily. Part of the reason I voted for Bush was because he rather decisively moved the war on terror from NYC to Baghdad. The incident in London, to me, is two steps in the wrong direction in the war on terror and to disregard it as a mistake is a continuation in the same direction. My argument is with Hedo, snipe, etc. and I’ll thank you not to stab me in the back. [/quote]
Dude - Lighten up. It was supposed to be funny. I apologize if I offended you.
Not condoning what they did, it’s human nature to want to stay out of trouble. Especially when you know the consequences. I have a feeling most of you don’t know what kind of adrenaline you have running through your body when you’re pointing a gun at someone. You could second guess it all day long, until you’ve done it you can’t compare it to anything. It’s not teaching, it’s not accounting, it’s not physical therapy and it’s not sitting behind a computer desk. Notihng like the clueless to make a judgement on sometihng they have never done, or something they could never do.
[quote]snipeout wrote:
Not condoning what they did, it’s human nature to want to stay out of trouble. Especially when you know the consequences. I have a feeling most of you don’t know what kind of adrenaline you have running through your body when you’re pointing a gun at someone. You could second guess it all day long, until you’ve done it you can’t compare it to anything. It’s not teaching, it’s not accounting, it’s not physical therapy and it’s not sitting behind a computer desk. Notihng like the clueless to make a judgement on sometihng they have never done, or something they could never do. [/quote]
Why are you so convinced about what anyone else could never do? Clueless? What exactly makes you so “clued in”?
Why are people still posting reasons and justifications of why he was shot? THAT’S NOT THE ARGUMENT. The most disgusting issues regarding this whole thing are the lies and cover ups. That’s the issue. When law enforcment begins to cover up and lie to the public, and start to believe they can get away with everything, there will be no end to what they think they can do.
I have done it and still do it, I don’t claim to be an expert in your field. You all seem to know so much about counterterrorism though, why don’t you quit your day job and pick up a job with the DOJ or a state agency tasked with homeland security. I was in the military for over 6 years and for my almost 8 months in the balkans(montenegro, serbia, kosovo, albania) my team worked side by side with the CIA. I am now in law enforcement, first worked a year with the department of justice now I moved to the county level, part of a countywide task force of all dept’s in the county tasked with homeland security. I would say that some of this qualifies to at least “be in the know” as to what I can handle. As for what others can handle, if they wanted to make a difference and were committed to this cause it’s pretty simple to hit up the DOJ website and put your money where your mouth is. Anyone can armchair this one but until you do it thats all you are is an armchair.
[quote]snipeout wrote:
I have done it and still do it, I don’t claim to be an expert in your field. You all seem to know so much about counterterrorism though, why don’t you quit your day job and pick up a job with the DOJ or a state agency tasked with homeland security. I was in the military for over 6 years and for my almost 8 months in the balkans(montenegro, serbia, kosovo, albania) my team worked side by side with the CIA. I am now in law enforcement, first worked a year with the department of justice now I moved to the county level, part of a countywide task force of all dept’s in the county tasked with homeland security. I would say that some of this qualifies to at least “be in the know” as to what I can handle. As for what others can handle, if they wanted to make a difference and were committed to this cause it’s pretty simple to hit up the DOJ website and put your money where your mouth is. Anyone can armchair this one but until you do it thats all you are is an armchair.[/quote]
That’s just the point sniper… we aren’t to the level you are where we fill the need to dress up in cammies on the weekend and do mock terrorist drills and then act like that gives us authority over everyone else.
I am not asking for your protection. I will live my life as I do every day and if a terrorist dirty bomb blows up my Colorado town, I’ll be dead same as if a car hits me on the way home from work today.
I just hope the cops don’t shoot me because of my tan skin on the way home because they think I’m of Arab descent and am on my way to blow up the Target store on my pedal bike.
[quote]hedo wrote:
I tried to anwser it in a manner simple enough for you to understand.
Your attempt at being a smart ass is falling flat.
Sorry dude.[/quote]
I’m not being a smartass, either you condone the act that killed this man or you don’t. Either you want the mistakes fixed, or you don’t. Don’t say; [quote]Nobody is [/quote]forgiving [quote] the killing of an innocent person.[/quote]
and then hand forgiveness to the guy that pulled the trigger or;
Unless you really mean the guy who made the bogus ID but didn’t shoot anybody should be on the hook for this by himself. I’m saying this is a fuck up from top to bottom and everyone is on the hook.
That’s just the point sniper… we aren’t to the level you are where we fill the need to dress up in cammies on the weekend and do mock terrorist drills and then act like that gives us authority over everyone else.
I am not asking for your protection. I will live my life as I do every day and if a terrorist dirty bomb blows up my Colorado town, I’ll be dead same as if a car hits me on the way home from work today.
I just hope the cops don’t shoot me because of my tan skin on the way home because they think I’m of Arab descent and am on my way to blow up the Target store on my pedal bike. [/quote]
Right on, good post. The only thing I would add to this is that they don’t lie about it and try to cover it up afterward.
The obstacles in the way of law enforcement generally aren’t really obstacles, they are the very fabric that society was built out of. Of course there are abuses, but the western world is the best system we’ve come up with so far.
It’s a crying shame that people don’t even understand what the hell they are all fired up to fight and die for. They are so concerned about holding on to what they have that they will crush it in their grasp.
[quote]snipeout wrote:
I have done it and still do it, I don’t claim to be an expert in your field. You all seem to know so much about counterterrorism though, why don’t you quit your day job and pick up a job with the DOJ or a state agency tasked with homeland security. I was in the military for over 6 years and for my almost 8 months in the balkans(montenegro, serbia, kosovo, albania) my team worked side by side with the CIA. I am now in law enforcement, first worked a year with the department of justice now I moved to the county level, part of a countywide task force of all dept’s in the county tasked with homeland security. I would say that some of this qualifies to at least “be in the know” as to what I can handle. As for what others can handle, if they wanted to make a difference and were committed to this cause it’s pretty simple to hit up the DOJ website and put your money where your mouth is. Anyone can armchair this one but until you do it thats all you are is an armchair.[/quote]
Not questioning you’re skills or knowledge set snipe, as for “armchairing” it for the rest of us, what about those who fall just short of the skillset that the DOJ accepts (Say, because of a disability). We don’t get to have an opinion (esp. when that opinion is in line with the law of the land) when a civilian gets killed? What about those of us who aren’t able to work for the DOJ (Say, under 18 or foreign-born) no opinion either? Where is the line?
I understand we all have a right to our opinions, I have already stated I think in this situation everything went wrong from the get go down to the shots fired. It seems like a majority of the people want to view the whole war on terror as a failure and accept our fate, whether it is to be killed by a terrorist explosion or being hit by a bus as elkhunter stated. It was that attitude that brought on 9/11. If you read the article in todays New York Post by a Lt. Col who served on Able Danger, he stated that he and his task force identified these 9/11 masterminds a year prior to the incident. Pentagon lawyers stuck by the clinton decision to not allow military and FBI intel to cross paths. I just see horribly complacent views, if you don’t care about a terrorist attack that’s great, obviously you were far enough away from 9/11 to not be affected by it.