The current state of Islam is evil. So by default I am against them. I say let them duke it out once and for all. Let’s not forget why Isreal occupies those terretories. IT’s called the 6 day war where no less than 6 arab states declared war on Isreal and Isreal kicked thier ass. They should us the palastinians to the Saudi border and build themselves some nice Holiday Inns in thier place.
Ithe the immortal words of SOD “Fuck the Middle East”. They are a bunch of whiners.
Welcome, Pat, who works for Holiday Inn…
“islam is evil”
time for me to leave this thread. permanently.
danh, I don’t know abou that. Hell, even Brian thinks pat’s an idiot.
Forrester, I agree that healthy debate is cool. Our issue with Brian is that he’ll redirect discussions and attack peripheral elements just to win the argument, for his self-proclaimed ‘ego boost’. For example, I posted a large (probably too large, but people need to at least know about this, regardless of their opinion on the subject). Rather than discuss the merits, he tried to deflect it by saying that my posting was one-sided (over and over and over again). Then, instead of addressing the legitimacy of the occupation or Israel’s heavy-handed reply, he’ll merely list every any Palestinian ever did in response.
My response to any confabulation Mark R. feels he needs to make about the discussion and/or its participants is encapsulated in my post on this thread at 10/30/03 02:03 AM. This should apply to all his future comments as well.
In case you haven’t seen it:
(Washington Post) - Israel’s senior military commander told columnists for three leading newspapers this week that Israel’s military tactics against the Palestinian population were too repressive and were fomenting explosive levels of “hatred and terrorism” that might become impossible to control. In remarks that suggest a dramatic split with the approach of the current government, Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon, chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces, said that crackdowns, curfews and roadblocks in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were crippling the lives of innocent Palestinians and that the military’s tactics were now threatening Israel’s own interests.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44374-2003Oct30.html
That’s true, Kuri, but his criticisms concern the fact that curfew and travel restrictions were most recently applied (in response to Jenin suicide killer last month) at a time when LONGER TERM interests of the Palestinians in the area were at stake. It was harvest time for many of them and school was interrupted. The military chief was breaking ranks to say that these curfews and checkpoints can’t be preventative measures if they punish large groups of people in blocks of time so large, that they are removed from the event. But he’s also making comments about the fence and about stinginess with the release of prisoners to Abbas that have nothing to do with his military role, so perhaps there is something political here.
The Defense Minister and the Intelligence Chief who overruled the military commander one month ago are actually altering Israel’s policy in Yaalov’s direction. If this results in less suicide killings prevented (as all statistics prove curfews do), then policy will probably go back the other way.
I mistakenly hit the ‘post’ button prior to completing my last post (Brian will probably point out this error, and will try to use it to invalidate any statement ever made against the occupation by anyone, anywhere, at any time).
Forrester, I agree that healthy debate is cool. Our issue with Brian is that he’ll redirect discussions and attack peripheral elements just to win the argument, for his self-proclaimed ‘ego boost’. For example, I posted a large (probably too large, but people need to at least know about this, regardless of their opinion on the subject) posting from the US State Dept. Human Rights report, where I excerpted some parts detailing Israel’s human rights abuses against Palestinian civilians in the occupied territories. Rather than discussing the merits of the report, he tried to redirect the discussion by complaining that my posting was one-sided (over and over and over again). Then, instead of addressing the legitimacy of the occupation or Israel’s heavy-handed reply, he merely listed every offense any Palestinian ever did in response. You know, we’re still waiting for Brian to address the human rights report. However, this would involve actual discussion of the issue, rather than merely trying to ‘win’ a debate (one that he’s losing, by the way).
Speaking of the waaaaaaammmbulance, how about Brian wondering what I see in the mirror. Who would give a fuck about that? I don’t give the fuck what Brian sees when he looks in the mirror, either. What I want to know what Sharon sees in the mirror.
Here’s an intersting article from the Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1067676019994) about European opinions on Israel, and their role in Middle East issues. Their humorous conclusion is that Europeans must be racists, as they’ve failed to buy into their Israel’s views of the world, so they shouldn’t be part of the peace process! Check it out:
EU poll: Israel greatest threat to world peace
By JPOST.COM STAFF
Fifty-nine percent of Europeans say that Israel is a larger threat to world peace than North Korea, Iran or Afghanistan, according to a European Commission survey of approximately 7,500 Europeans, scheduled to be made public on Monday.
Given a list of 15 countries, including Iran and North Korea, Israel was listed as the greatest threat to world peace, the Spanish daily El Pais reported.
The EU has denied allegations that it suppressed the results of the survey.
“This poll is an indication that Europeans have bought in, ‘hook, line and sinker’, to the vilification and demonization campaign directed against the State of Israel and her supporters by European leaders and media,” said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Wiesenthal Center’s founder and dean.
“If the results of this survey are as reported, then Israel should draw the only conclusion possible - that the European Union and its members should play no role in any future peace process,” Hier said.
Hier added that the poll only shows that “antisemitism is deeply embedded within European society, more then any other period since the end of WWII.”
In a statement sent to the The Jerusalem Post Minister-without-Portfolio with responsibility for Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Natan Sharansky deplored the findings of the poll. “The fact that most Europeans view Israel as the greatest threat to world peace instead of nations that support terrorism, or dictators threatening the world with weapons of mass destruction, is further proof that behind Europe’s ‘political’ criticism of Israel lies pure anti-Semitism,” Sharansky said.
“Just as in the past when Jews were blamed for all the world’s problems, today’s ‘enlightened’ nations are doing the same to Israel,” Sharansky added.
As for which thread to post on, I think it’s time to go back to the WWIII thread. The thread was kicking ass, and we had a lot of great information on it. Just because Brian and Glute coudn’t hang with us on the WWIII thread didn’t justify abandoning it.
From my WWIII post:
It looks like Israel may finally be willing to try to put the Roadmap back on track. We’ll see if Israel is willing to work for peace, but one thing we can agree on is that we all hope for success.
"JERUSALEM (AP) - Following an Israeli offer, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said Sunday he is ready for peace talks, while about 6,000 Palestinians returned to jobs in Israel for the first time in a month.
In an abrupt turnaround last week, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said contacts were already underway with Palestinian officials, adding, “We are ready to enter negotiations at any time.”
Sharon had previously conditioned talks on a crackdown on violent Palestinian groups responsible for attacks on Israelis.
Asked about Sharon’s remarks, Arafat told reporters he would accept an offer for talks." (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20031102/D7UIOIBO1.html)