The Next Step: Stripping Criminals' Rights

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad â?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city â?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at â??the law enforcement approachâ?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Liebermanâ??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

2

This is horrible. No conservative could stand behind this.

3

Holy fucking hell. McCain… really? What happened to you? I don’t like Republicans but if there was ever one that I would have voted for, he could have convinced me.

But this is just sickening, and a stretch that is quickly heading towards police powers for the government.

4

Just want to let the Mod who changed the title know that they are not “criminals”.

They are suspects, which is a big difference, much in the same way that not every goat herder that is in Guantanamo is a “terrorist”.

5

I am very conservative, and if a citizen can be stripped of his citizenship because he is accused of a crime is absolutly wrong. I am starting to see your guys view on the Patriot Act, and now this bill. This is a slippery slope that needs to be stopped. I might stand behind a bill that if a person is convicted of committing an act of terrorism then their citizenship can be stripped, that I might go for.

6

Just watch, someone will come on here and defend this proposed legislation.

7

[quote]Dustin wrote:
Just watch, someone will come on here and defend this proposed legislation.[/quote]

Who? There won’t be a card carrying ACLU democrat that wants anything to do with this. We’re against military tribunals anywhere at all.

8

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:
Just watch, someone will come on here and defend this proposed legislation.[/quote]

Who? There won’t be a card carrying ACLU democrat that wants anything to do with this. We’re against military tribunals anywhere at all.[/quote]

Oh, somebody who wants to be “safe”. I can think of a few people who post here.

9

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I am very conservative, and if a citizen can be stripped of his citizenship because he is accused of a crime is absolutly wrong. I am starting to see your guys view on the Patriot Act, and now this bill. This is a slippery slope that needs to be stopped. I might stand behind a bill that if a person is convicted of committing an act of terrorism then their citizenship can be stripped, that I might go for. [/quote]

This is not a slippery slope, this is a waterslide.

10

[quote]orion wrote:
Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad â?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city â?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at â??the law enforcement approachâ?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Liebermanâ??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

[/quote]

I’m one hundred percent against this but you are oddly concerned with what happens here politically. Is Austria and the EU so perfect that you don’t have anything to discuss or complain about?

11

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad �¢?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city �¢?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at �¢??the law enforcement approach�¢?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Lieberman�¢??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

[/quote]

I’m one hundred percent against this but you are oddly concerned with what happens here politically. Is Austria and the EU so perfect that you don’t have anything to discuss or complain about?[/quote]

Or it could be that much of what happens in the US also effects the rest of the world?

12

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad �?�¢?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city �?�¢?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at �?�¢??the law enforcement approach�?�¢?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Lieberman�?�¢??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

[/quote]

I’m one hundred percent against this but you are oddly concerned with what happens here politically. Is Austria and the EU so perfect that you don’t have anything to discuss or complain about?[/quote]

Or it could be that much of what happens in the US also effects the rest of the world?[/quote]

In some cases yes, but not in this one or many others. What happens in oil producing countries effects me but it’s still none of my business.

13

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad �??�??�?�¢?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city �??�??�?�¢?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at �??�??�?�¢??the law enforcement approach�??�??�?�¢?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Lieberman�??�??�?�¢??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

[/quote]

I’m one hundred percent against this but you are oddly concerned with what happens here politically. Is Austria and the EU so perfect that you don’t have anything to discuss or complain about?[/quote]

Or it could be that much of what happens in the US also effects the rest of the world?[/quote]

In some cases yes, but not in this one or many others. [/quote]

I’m not so sure about that.

If the government is willing to use police state tactics to control Americans, what do you think its stance on foreign policy will be?

Probably, not very nice, if I were to guess.

edit-typo

14

For naturalized citizens, I like this idea. And I understand that if this was applied, I would have lost my citizenship as well. That’s ok, I can keep it real. But for those who are citizens by birth, no this would not be cool. But I think there should be a conviction, not just an accusation.

15

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
For naturalized citizens, I like this idea. And I understand that if this was applied, I would have lost my citizenship as well. That’s ok, I can keep it real. But for those who are citizens by birth, no this would not be cool. But I think there should be a conviction, not just an accusation. [/quote]

This is not a good idea for naturalized citizens either- you’re getting into creating castes as far as being a US citizen, and that’s not what the country is about.

A conviction of any US citizen should come before a jury. If not, you boys better get ready to start revising that good old Bill of Rights you claim to defend so heartily.

16

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad �??�??�??�?�¢?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city �??�??�??�?�¢?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at �??�??�??�?�¢??the law enforcement approach�??�??�??�?�¢?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Lieberman�??�??�??�?�¢??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

[/quote]

I’m one hundred percent against this but you are oddly concerned with what happens here politically. Is Austria and the EU so perfect that you don’t have anything to discuss or complain about?[/quote]

Or it could be that much of what happens in the US also effects the rest of the world?[/quote]

In some cases yes, but not in this one or many others. [/quote]

I’m not so sure about that.

If the government is willing to use police state tactics to control Americans, what do you think its stance on foreign policy will be?

Probably, not very nice, if I were to guess.

edit-typo[/quote]

We are already willing to bomb the hell out of you if we don’t like you, how much worse do you think we can get?

17

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I am very conservative, and if a citizen can be stripped of his citizenship because he is accused of a crime is absolutly wrong. I am starting to see your guys view on the Patriot Act, and now this bill. This is a slippery slope that needs to be stopped. I might stand behind a bill that if a person is convicted of committing an act of terrorism then their citizenship can be stripped, that I might go for. [/quote]

Ditto. This is me too and I totally agree with you Maddox.

18

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]Dustin wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Lawmakers like Senators John McCain of Arizona and Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut and Representative Peter King of New York were immediately outraged that Mr. Shahzad �??�??�??�??�?�¢?? a United States citizen accused of an attempted attack on civilians in an American city �??�??�??�??�?�¢?? was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and eventually read his Miranda rights.

They are demanding that Mr. Shahzad be declared an illegal enemy combatant, stripped of any rights and brought before a military tribunal. They have opened another round of sneering at �??�??�??�??�?�¢??the law enforcement approach�??�??�??�??�?�¢?? to terrorism. That is contemptuous, first of all, of the police officers whose quick actions may have saved untold numbers and the other people who identified and tracked Mr. Shahzad with amazing speed.

…

To get around the inconvenient fact that Mr. Shahzad is a citizen, Mr. Lieberman is even calling for a law allowing Americans accused (not convicted) of unspecified crimes to be stripped of their citizenship and retroactively deprived of due process under the law.

This is not Mr. Lieberman�??�??�??�??�?�¢??s first foray into this dark territory. He is co-author with Mr. McCain of a bill that would require that anyone arrested on any terrorism-related charge, including American citizens, be declared an enemy combatant and tried in a military court.

Senators already demand that Americans be tried as "illegal combatant.

So were are we now?

Habeas corpus is dead, the POTUS can order the assassinations of American citizens, warrantless wiretraps are apparently ok too and now this.

Cool.

I never thought that I would witness the emergence of a police state.

We can probably also rule out that they hate you for your freedom.

[/quote]

I’m one hundred percent against this but you are oddly concerned with what happens here politically. Is Austria and the EU so perfect that you don’t have anything to discuss or complain about?[/quote]

Or it could be that much of what happens in the US also effects the rest of the world?[/quote]

In some cases yes, but not in this one or many others. [/quote]

I’m not so sure about that.

If the government is willing to use police state tactics to control Americans, what do you think its stance on foreign policy will be?

Probably, not very nice, if I were to guess.

edit-typo[/quote]

We are already willing to bomb the hell out of you if we don’t like you, how much worse do you think we can get?[/quote]

I would like to think the government couldn’t get any more belligerent, but I know better than that.

19

The word(s) terrorism/terrorist need to be stripped from legal speak.

As far as the law goes there is no distinction between a criminal and a terrorist.

20

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The word(s) terrorism/terrorist need to be stripped from legal speak.

As far as the law goes there is no distinction between a criminal and a terrorist.[/quote]

I agree. It’s really just the motivation.