Any questions that these guys are totalitarian morons.
Boy, book me on the next flight to Tehran.
What loathsome creatures they are, really.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Any questions that these guys are totalitarian morons. Boy, book me on the next flight to Tehran. [/quote]
Yet, compared to Saudi Arabia, Iran doesn’t look all that bad. You might wanna make a stop in Ryad on your way to Tehran.
Oh wait, your government actually support the Al-Sauds…Nevermind.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Any questions that these guys are totalitarian morons. Boy, book me on the next flight to Tehran.
What loathsome creatures they are, really.[/quote]
It is all our fault because we are forced to buy oil from other thugs in Saudi Arabia.
When we oppose these guys we are bad. When we work with them we are bad. When we ignore them we are bad.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When we oppose these guys we are bad. When we work with them we are bad. When we ignore them we are bad.[/quote]
What’s bad is that you try to do all three at the same time.
Support human rights or don’t. Oppose tyrants or dictators or don’t. Support democracy (and accept the outcomes even if you don’t like them) or don’t.
If you pick and choose when your vaunted principles and lofty ideals apply and when they don’t (because it’s not good for the bottom line) don’t be surprised that people find you, as a country, to be meddling, brutish and hypocritical.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Any questions that these guys are totalitarian morons.
Boy, book me on the next flight to Tehran.
What loathsome creatures they are, really.[/quote]
Of all the things a government can do or concern itself with — education, health care, clean water, and on and on — and to then invest resources in hunting down women and men because of hairstyles or clothing…simply beyond belief.
Could we please simply quarantine this region of the world? Fuck 'em and their oil. I’d rather pay $5 or $7 and let these guys just kill each other.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
When we oppose these guys we are bad. When we work with them we are bad. When we ignore them we are bad.
What’s bad is that you try to do all three at the same time.
Support human rights or don’t. Oppose tyrants or dictators or don’t. Support democracy (and accept the outcomes even if you don’t like them) or don’t.
If you pick and choose when your vaunted principles and lofty ideals apply and when they don’t (because it’s not good for the bottom line) don’t be surprised that people find you, as a country, to be meddling, brutish and hypocritical.
[/quote]
Who is we? Doesn’t Canada also have relations with brutal regimes? In fact they probably have more relationships with bad regimes than the US.
Does that invalidate everything your country does to improve human rights?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Who is we? Doesn’t Canada also have relations with brutal regimes? In fact they probably have more relationships with bad regimes than the US.[/quote]
Well, we have relations with you, so I guess we have one more bad regime than you do.
Last I checked we’ve never unilaterally invaded another country. We also don’t claim to be “leaders of the free world” or “a beacon of freedom” every chance we get nor to be “the greatest country ever”. We don’t have a Guantanamo equivalent, we don’t execute people and we care for our sick whether they’re rich or poor.
If sure a few countries could give us lessons on how to improve in some aspects, but the US certainly isn’t among them. Shit, what’s next? A chinese lecturing me about democracy and censorship?
[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Who is we? Doesn’t Canada also have relations with brutal regimes? In fact they probably have more relationships with bad regimes than the US.
Well, we have relations with you, so I guess we have one more bad regime than you do.
Does that invalidate everything your country does to improve human rights?
Last I checked we’ve never unilaterally invaded another country. We also don’t claim to be “leaders of the free world” or “a beacon of freedom” every chance we get nor to be “the greatest country ever”. We don’t have a Guantanamo equivalent, we don’t execute people and we care for our sick whether they’re rich or poor.
If sure a few countries could give us lessons on how to improve in some aspects, but the US certainly isn’t among them. Shit, what’s next? A chinese lecturing me about democracy and censorship?
[/quote]
Well you got one thing on us, pot is one step from being completely legal. It’s still to fucking cold which is one reason my family got the fuck out, I am still a citizen though. I do owe Canada debt of gratitude for allowing my falimity to defect.
Like it or not though, Canada is very dependant on the U.S.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Who is we? Doesn’t Canada also have relations with brutal regimes? In fact they probably have more relationships with bad regimes than the US.
Well, we have relations with you, so I guess we have one more bad regime than you do.
Does that invalidate everything your country does to improve human rights?
Last I checked we’ve never unilaterally invaded another country. We also don’t claim to be “leaders of the free world” or “a beacon of freedom” every chance we get nor to be “the greatest country ever”. We don’t have a Guantanamo equivalent, we don’t execute people and we care for our sick whether they’re rich or poor.
If sure a few countries could give us lessons on how to improve in some aspects, but the US certainly isn’t among them. Shit, what’s next? A chinese lecturing me about democracy and censorship?
[/quote]
Nice inferiority complex.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Like it or not though, Canada is very dependant on the U.S.[/quote]
Well, we supply a large portion of your oil, your lumber, etc. You’re our biggest natural resource customer. It’s more of an inter-dependant relationship than anything else. Neither of our countries would do as well without the other.
But justifying the USA’s braindead foreign policy by saying “Well, Canada has relations with bad regimes too!” is pretty daft. Dismissing the whole thing by saying “we’re bad guys whatever we do!” crosses from daft into deeply stupid territory. As if foreign interventions and policies operated in a vacuum and distant countries were populated by cardboard cutouts who don’t care when they become collateral damage…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Nice inferiority complex. [/quote]
Nice lame comeback. Too bad you’re not able to refute any arguments. Guess, I win, eh?
[quote]pookie wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Like it or not though, Canada is very dependant on the U.S.
Well, we supply a large portion of your oil, your lumber, etc. You’re our biggest natural resource customer. It’s more of an inter-dependant relationship than anything else. Neither of our countries would do as well without the other.
But justifying the USA’s braindead foreign policy by saying “Well, Canada has relations with bad regimes too!” is pretty daft. Dismissing the whole thing by saying “we’re bad guys whatever we do!” crosses from daft into deeply stupid territory. As if foreign interventions and policies operated in a vacuum and distant countries were populated by cardboard cutouts who don’t care when they become collateral damage…
[/quote]
Are you seriously trying to argue that your country is better than my country? Isn’t that kind of juvenile? I mean really, it’s like saying “My dad can beat up your dad”
I like both countries just fine am I am a citizen of both countries. I am sure I can dig up mountains of dirt on Canada and heap it upon you to explain away, but I am not going to because it is an utter waste of my fucking time. Grow up
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to argue that your country is better than my country?[/quote]
No. Have you read the whole thing? Maybe you need some part explained to you? I was responding to Zap’s idiotic assertion that whatever you do, you’re bad guys. He responded to that with the non sequitur that Canada also has relations with bad regimes, as if that justified anything. I then pointed out a few facts that are quite unbecoming the self-proclaimed “shining beacon of freedom for the world…” which apparently got interpreted as a “my country is better than yours argument,” which it isn’t.
To reiterate the point in simpler (and hopefully clearer) terms: Other countries don’t claim to own freedom and liberty while simultaneously invading foreign nations, detaining prisoners without due process, using torture, etc. If you still have no idea why some people might consider your country “bad” I can’t really help you.
[quote]pookie wrote:
…[/quote]
Shhhhh. Let them rest on their laurels and crow about their past… it keeps them distracted from the present.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Nice inferiority complex.
Nice lame comeback. Too bad you’re not able to refute any arguments. Guess, I win, eh?
[/quote]
When you try to link the US with totalitarian states your arguments lose all credibility.
You win like a street corner preacher wins an argument on religion. All reasonable people just shake their head and walk away.
[quote]pookie wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to argue that your country is better than my country?
No. Have you read the whole thing? Maybe you need some part explained to you? I was responding to Zap’s idiotic assertion that whatever you do, you’re bad guys. He responded to that with the non sequitur that Canada also has relations with bad regimes, as if that justified anything. I then pointed out a few facts that are quite unbecoming the self-proclaimed “shining beacon of freedom for the world…” which apparently got interpreted as a “my country is better than yours argument,” which it isn’t.
To reiterate the point in simpler (and hopefully clearer) terms: Other countries don’t claim to own freedom and liberty while simultaneously invading foreign nations, detaining prisoners without due process, using torture, etc. If you still have no idea why some people might consider your country “bad” I can’t really help you.
[/quote]
The funny thing is Canada is activlely involved in all these very things in Afghanistan.
[quote]pookie wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to argue that your country is better than my country?
No. Have you read the whole thing? Maybe you need some part explained to you? I was responding to Zap’s idiotic assertion that whatever you do, you’re bad guys. He responded to that with the non sequitur that Canada also has relations with bad regimes, as if that justified anything. I then pointed out a few facts that are quite unbecoming the self-proclaimed “shining beacon of freedom for the world…” which apparently got interpreted as a “my country is better than yours argument,” which it isn’t.
To reiterate the point in simpler (and hopefully clearer) terms: Other countries don’t claim to own freedom and liberty while simultaneously invading foreign nations, detaining prisoners without due process, using torture, etc. If you still have no idea why some people might consider your country “bad” I can’t really help you.
[/quote]
My country is better than yours is…Na Na Na Boo boo…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pookie wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Nice inferiority complex.
Nice lame comeback. Too bad you’re not able to refute any arguments. Guess, I win, eh?
When you try to link the US with totalitarian states your arguments lose all credibility.
You win like a street corner preacher wins an argument on religion. All reasonable people just shake their head and walk away.[/quote]
The US army has more offensive military potential than all totalitarian regimes combined.
The US has more prisoners per capita than all totalitarian regimes, except, maybe, China.
The US lets people disappear and dumps them into secret facilities with no civil or judicial oversight.
The US kidnapps people on foreign soil, which is why several CIA agents are wanted in Italy and Germany.
Since the SU is gone, nobody gives more in military aid to “friendly” totalitarian regimes than the US.
Walk away and shake your head now, you reasonable person you.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
pookie wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Are you seriously trying to argue that your country is better than my country?
No. Have you read the whole thing? Maybe you need some part explained to you? I was responding to Zap’s idiotic assertion that whatever you do, you’re bad guys. He responded to that with the non sequitur that Canada also has relations with bad regimes, as if that justified anything. I then pointed out a few facts that are quite unbecoming the self-proclaimed “shining beacon of freedom for the world…” which apparently got interpreted as a “my country is better than yours argument,” which it isn’t.
To reiterate the point in simpler (and hopefully clearer) terms: Other countries don’t claim to own freedom and liberty while simultaneously invading foreign nations, detaining prisoners without due process, using torture, etc. If you still have no idea why some people might consider your country “bad” I can’t really help you.
My country is better than yours is…Na Na Na Boo boo…[/quote]
Na Na Na, Boo boo?
He was talking about Guantanamo, not that Canada wipes the floor with the US in ice hockey…
The first is the American empire collapsing and taking millions of foreigners with it, the second would be relatively harmless.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
When you try to link the US with totalitarian states your arguments lose all credibility.[/quote]
Again, lame. You’re just repeating the standard boilerplate of someone who’s unable to address and argument reasonably.
I don’t blame you. You can’t reconcile the fact that some of the worst things you accuse various dictators of doing are also being done by your own country. People deal with cognitive dissonance in various way; for you it’s apparently complete denial and branding anyone who points it out to you as “having no credibility.”
With a preacher, there’s no arguing, because you can’t overrule God’s word. My arguments are simple: You imprison people without due process in Gitmo; you use torture; you execute people; you invade countries in defiance of the UN, etc. Any which one could be refuted if it was false.
All of which are methods used by tyrants and dictators and which should not exist in a country that believes itself to be “the best in all history” and that prides itself on it’s freedoms and liberties.
Keep pretending it doesn’t matter; or rationalize it as you wish. But please, don’t wonder why “we’re bad guys whatever we do,” because that’s simply ridiculous.