I cannot wait for the campaign against Hillary that Trump will unleash. This man made Obama show his birth certificate when no one else could. He made the POTUS jump, and jump really fucking high.
There are stories that Hillary hit Bill with a lamp after the Monica thing. If Trump taps into that nerve, and he is most certainly capable, we will see the real Jailery Clinton.
[quote=“MaximusB, post:1604, topic:212571, full:true”]
I cannot wait for the campaign against Hillary that Trump will unleash. This man made Obama show his birth certificate when no one else could. He made the POTUS jump, and jump really fucking high.[/quote]
And this is how detached from political reality Trump supporters and enablers are. He did not MAKE Obama show anything…Obama let all the birthers expose themselves, and when he had enough fish on the hook, he made them all look like conspiratorial weirdos. Trump, and all the birthers who got baited out into the light, got outplayed. Sorry Max, the Public isn’t buying that as anything but Obama playing Trump like a fiddle. Obama exposed Trump as the nut Hillary will now remind voters he is over and over again.
That’s not the point. People knew Trump was a nut, even before he ran for POTUS, and most people agree Obama is a US citizen. The point is, the nut made the President flinch, and flinch badly.
As for Obama, since his election in 2008, Democrats have lost almost 70 Congressional seats and over 900 seats in statewide elections.
The bottom line: Republicans now control about 56 percent of the country’s 7,383 state legislative seats, up 12 percentage points since 2009. So the Birther thing didn’t actually hurt Republicans electorally.
[quote=“MaximusB, post:1607, topic:212571, full:true”]
That’s not the point. People knew Trump was a nut, even before he ran for POTUS, and most people agree Obama is a US citizen. The point is, the nut made the President flinch, and flinch badly. [/quote]
I can not, for the life of me, fathom how you view it as such. Obama flat out made Trump look the birther conspiracy nut he is. Obama obviously knew he had the ammo at any time. How do you make someone flinch, when they never had anything that needed hiding?! He let the birther syndrome spread for a time among the rightwing. And once it was ripe for the picking he said " oh, you mean these documents I supposedly couldn’t produce? Owned! In your faces, nutjobs, Allowed to demonstrate just what a bunch of tools you folks are! Damn, I’m good."
Are you attributing the birther movement to the Dems loss of House and Senate? I don’t think it was ever implied that Republicans were hurt by Obama’s revealing that he is actually a US citizen. The point is that Obama let people like Trump trundle on with the birther idea while he went happily along with the rest of his damaging agenda. In the regard that it was a great distraction for Obama hE played the births like a fiddle
And now Trumpmania gives away the Presidency and fractures the GoP for who knows how long. Brilliant!
Anyone else see a slight similarity in our current state within the GOP to the dixiecrats?
With the talk regarding a 3rd party to prevent either nominee from reaching their delegate quota it seems all to similar
No, what I am saying is that it did not stop Republicans from winning the House and Senate. The Birther thing is moot at this point, it won’t work anymore, the same way the war on women that Dems claim will also not work again.
The Birther movement originated from the Hillary campaign in 2008, but him latching onto it doesn’t help.
That is unknown at this point, what we do know is that Obamamania has tooled Democrats to the point where a nut like Trump could win.
When something doesn’t go his way, President Trump will come up with some new crazy conspiracy theory. I almost hope he wins so I can see it.
Trump: What, SCOTUS won’t let me deport 12M people. Obviously, they’re controlled by the Mexican government. Where’s Sotomayor’s birth certificate anyway???
If I was Clinton, I’d run pretty much this 1964 ad against Trump, down to the cigarette and in B&W
They’ve already got this one, which I think will do well in the general:
Nope.
This is my parting gift to you. You will probably object, but I am leaving the country – and the comfort of an internet connection – in about twenty hours, so I wouldn’t be able to respond even if I wanted to, which I won’t. (Not that it much matters: If the history of this thread is indicative of its future, your objections will be ineffectual and born of a willful detachment from empirical reality.)
I said above that I respect you. I do respect you, and my respect for you has made it difficult to watch you wrap yourself in the soiled rags of moral and intellectual imbecility throughout the development of this mess of a thread. For all your feckless attempts to obfuscate your purpose here, it is lost on exactly no one that you have been weakly (and, of course, unsuccessfully) objecting to criticism of Donald Trump since his fat, plague-bearing rat of a candidacy smuggled itself aboard the ship of American presidential politics.
You began early, by attempting to defend Trump from criticism relating to the xenophobic lies he deemed worthy of inclusion among the bumbling, foundational remarks of his campaign (these lies, of course, being central to the immediate construction and continuing sustenance of his benthic base, which consists of the kinds of garbage people who like to be told lies about immigrants. Included, of course, are Stormfronters, the Klan, and so on [here we pause to note that Donald Trump’s popularity among white nationalists is legitimate and entirely natural, whereas the fatuous article you linked about HRC and the Grand Dragon, if it isn’t outright bullshit, is simply meaningless in that the guy subscribes to a conspiracy theory under the terms of which Clinton is actually an Aryan Sister with a Secret Agenda to destroy the blacks and the Jews. Compare and contrast that gobbledygook with Stormfront’s electric enthusiasm for Trump, which is predicated on the actual words that issue from his hideous fucking mouth. See the difference? I’m sure you will, provided that you look hard enough and in good faith.]) That was a long parenthetical aside, but I’m aiming for thoroughness here. Anyway, I was talking about the first of the many times you face-planted while trying to scramble to the aid of Donald Trump and the mountain of shit on which his political insurrection feeds. You tried to push the theory that Trump had said, of Mexican immigrants, “their rapists” rather than “they’re rapists.” In doing so you nodded to the obvious fact that the latter formulation was repugnant and mendacious, particularly given that it was followed, ridiculously, by “some, I assume, are good people” – the vast disparity in strength between those two co-propositions conveying (to the delight of the Stormfronters) the exact reverse of the objective reality, which is that there is no country on the planet immigrants (legal or illegal) from which are more likely than not to commit rape. Of course your defense disintegrated when, as we already knew to be the case, “they’re” was confirmed as the correct transcription…by the Trump campaign itself.
From that initial and utter failure you moved on to a series of head-first dives into brick walls. I know that all sorts of moral and epistemological relativity are voguish these days, and I know that you’ve been trying to use them as shields behind which to uninterruptedly continue in your downward spiral, but make no mistake about this: the disagreements we’ve had in this thread have turned on questions of straightforward empirical reality – questions of objective fact – and nobody reading along has failed to see whether or not you have answers to those questions. Nobody has failed to understand what’s happened every time you’ve vaguely whined about an anti-Trump argument and then gone utterly silent on the substance, the maker of the argument having publicly thrashed you with evidence and reasoning in support of his original proposition.
Thus, when you moved from defending Trump’s lies about immigration to objecting to somebody’s having commented on the distinctly fascist stink he and his idiot supporters have brought to the fore of American politics – when you went quiet after it was showed to you that, yes, Trump hits the salient fascist notes to one degree or another (central promise of palingenetic rebirth; populist nationalism tinged with mendacious xenophobia; dreams of running the country like a strongman who can “open up” libel laws so as to choke what much better men once called “the freedom of the press”; authoritarian [remember when you were calling yourself a libertarian?] claim that American soldiers will obey his orders to commit war crimes because he’s, you know, just such a strong leader, believe-you-me) – when all this happened, and you stumbled nose-first into yet another wall, nobody failed to understand that it was because you were attempting to argue that what is isn’t and what isn’t is: that the sky is green and two minus one comes to four.
And when you vaguely objected to charges of stupidity: Again nobody failed to follow along as you summoned literally nothing but obfuscatory nonsense against the most secure case for intellectual disqualification from high office in modern American history. The utterly unprecedented stupidity of this man and his teeming cesspool of support; his inability to create the kinds of information-bearing sentences that we expect of native adult English speakers; his status as an avowed conspiracy theorist; his willingness to take logically contradictory positions in the span of a single sentence (“he swings from isolationism to military adventurism within the space of one sentence,” as the Republican national security community correctly has it); his unparalleled ignorance of the very basics of government, policy, and world affairs – these are not the conjectures of a “paranoid” or “hysterical” political collusion. They are simple statements about a reality that can be faithfully illustrated – this is but a clear and prominent instance among hundreds of examples – with the following excerpt (note: I’ve already posted this little ditty to this thread, but it’s a gem…and it was generally ignored…and I’m not being paid for my efforts here…so yeah) from Trump’s embarrassingly, ludicrously stupid response to a question about which of the media by which we are capable of delivering nuclear weapons he would prioritize for modernization. Note that he does not have the first fucking clue what’s being asked (and here we pause to admire the fact that he was even too risibly dumb to figure it out from the question, wherein lay more than enough clues), which is to say that he answered this question with as much base knowledge as we’d expect of a reality TV character. Note furthermore that he manages to so bungle whatever point he’s actually trying to make as to render the entire thing literally meaningless and incomprehensible. Without further ado:
But we have to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful when it comes to nuclear. Nuclear changes the whole ball game. Frankly, I would have said get out of Syria; get out – if we didn’t have the power of weaponry today. The power is so massive that we can’t just leave areas that 50 years ago or 75 years ago we wouldn’t care. It was hand-to-hand combat
This quotation – not merely it, but also what it represents, the arrant stupidity without which a person cannot wish under any circumstance to put Donald Trump anywhere remotely near the levers of American power (as has been meticulously supported and defended by various contributors to the present thread) – is the ball game, and not only have you lost the ball game; you haven’t even played. You haven’t even tied your shoes. The hysterical whataboutism by which you’re trying now to deflect and obfuscate will not work for two reasons. The first is that “Hillary Clinton sucks” does not justify your obvious and impotent displeasure with the simple and uncontroversial factual record of Donald Trump’s presidential bid. The second, and more important, reason is this: to borrow a line from myself (way back when I first refuted your whataboutism), Clinton, Cruz, Rubio, Bush, Romney, Obama, Ryan – they are all apples with various degrees of rot and blemish. Trump isn’t even an orange. He is an obese rat choking to death on a condom that was used during a clown-orgy behind a K-Mart. He cannot be compared to even the mealiest apple, and he certainly can’t be compared to someone who has forgotten more than he will ever know about contemporary world affairs.
That is to say that though one is perfectly justified in refusing to vote for Clinton because of her unquestionably oozy record of sleaze and ethical controversy and perfidy, one is not justified in pretending that she and Trump are, on the evidence, otherwise comparable. Because whereas Donald Trump is also an outright liar and scumbag, Hillary Clinton is not a conspiracy theorist, and she is not incapable of lucid communication, and she is not ignorant of the very basics of American government, and she does not call on a whim for American soldiers to begin murdering noncombatant women and children…because whatever Hillary Clinton envisions for the United States of America, she apparently does not envision the removal of the operative moral distinction between its soldiers and those of al-Qaeda (an aside: as you’ve tried to dance around this particular point, ignoring it or dodging it as mere “bark,” you have given the impression of someone who, despite calling himself a moral absolutist, is a nihilist in every consequential respect). This is why there is no question – no question – as to who is going to savage whom in policy debates if Trump and Clinton are the two major nominees. This is why the Democratic party is not frantically trying to stop Hillary Clinton from winning her party’s nomination, as the GOP is doing with Trump. This is why the Democratic national security community is not warning of the economic disaster and risk to American security posed by Hillary Clinton, as is the case, mutatis mutandis, with Trump. This is why nobody wonders whether or not Hillary Clinton is too stupid or racist to disavow David Duke and the KKK on the first fuckin’ try. This is why nobody wonders whether or not Henry Kissinger would have been able to say of SecState Trump (lol at the very notion), as he did of SecState Clinton, that he “ran the State Department in the most effective way that [he’d] ever seen.” We aren’t talking about partisan politics. We aren’t talking about a politician’s corruption. We aren’t talking about who has the better OBP. We’re talking about who can hold a bat and who can’t.
Don’t believe me? Remember this post during the general election, assuming that Trump and Clinton become the nominees. Remember it after each debate, when this bumbling idiot, this fucking reality-TV buffoon making menstruation jokes in a bid for the highest government station on the planet, this trash-clown who doesn’t have command of the kind of basic information with which one passes a citizenship test – remember this post when he has had his throat cut on live television by someone who, yes, is a good debater with a good grasp of the facts. Remember it when every respected subject-matter expert, regardless of party and including the most decorated military men who choose to go on record, spend August-October excoriating Trump, predicting catastrophe in the event of his victory, and advocating that he be rejected by voters. Most of all, remember it on 8 November 2016, when Hillary Clinton becomes your president-elect.
I haven’t written this post with the intention of rubbing your face in anything. And, contrary to what may seem to be the reality, I haven’t written it in order to build myself up one last time. No, my purpose here is to suggest that you, and by extension the wing of the conservative movement of which you are a fairly archetypal part, have, to use the technical term, lost it. Completely lost it. I don’t know whether this is a cause or a symptom, but I notice that you’ve been linking to Breitbart lately. I would suggest that you bombard yourself with something less noxious than a tabloid unashamed of literally lying in its headlines, openly engaged in propaganda, and aimed in no small part at an audience of gullible buffoons rabid with anti-intellectualism and racial resentment (just check the comments section, any comments section under any article). Breitbart is, of course, a natural fit for the miserable subject of this debate: the New York Times analyzed census data against county-level support for Trump and discovered the highest levels of correlation among things like number of white high-school dropouts, percent of residents neither working nor looking for work, and prevalence of primary-residence mobile homes. I know we’re not supposed to be elitist in this new era of PC spinelessness, but is anyone surprised to learn that uneducated – and we’re talking about a high school education here – residents of trailer parks who neither work nor want to find work are an almost perfect indicator of Trump support? And is anyone surprised to learn that the website shilling breathlessly for such a candidacy is filled with bile, utter stupidity, and racism? No, I don’t think anybody is surprised by this. But they – you – should be wary of it. Here’s hoping you become so.
– Smh
I find it interesting that a significant number of left wing groups are already mobilizing against Trump. It seems to be a pretty quick turn around from them happily accepting him as the face of the GOP and the opposing candidate for November. It seems that while they may still see him as the easiest win come November they are most likely uneasy at the prospect of what might happen.
I agree Rubio, Cruz heck even Jeb Bush would have been better than Trump. But, I am claiming that Hillary Clinton is such a bad candidate that even Donald Trump will defeat her.
Here’s how:
New voters are turning out in droves for Trump. People who are in their 40’s 50’s and beyond who have never voted before are voting for Trump.
Trump will steal just about 20% of the democrat base as he has many times denounced GW Bush for invading Iraq. Democrats eat that crap up. He also appeals to blue collar dems. Not the type who stand out in picket lines claiming that black lives are more important than white lives. But, the type who work hard every day and see their dollar shrinking. The type that want ISIS crushed and know that Obama has failed them and Hillary has also shown a weak foreign policy.
Trump will attract a larger number of white males than any GOP candidate in history. There is a group that has been feeling slighted now for about 25 years…since the Clinton days. Yes, some are racist, but most are not. They are simply tired of taking a back seat and feeling like they have not been heard.
Members of the republican party who don’t like Trump but feel that electing Hillary Clinton would be far worse. I fall in this group. We know that having Hillary pick the next Sup0reme court justice would be catastrophic. Right I know what you’re thinking “Trump might pick a liberal we can’t tell.” Exactly my point. He might…MIGHT. Hillary WILL!
For some reason senior citizens love Donald Trump and I don’t have to tell you what group turns out heaviest in Presidential elections.
Trump supporters are motivated. Even if Hillary actually has more people who SAY they will vote for her she will still lose. On election day nothing will stop Trump supporters from voting, floods, famine, pestilence come what may Trump supporters will be voting on election day. Hillary supporters…not so much.
There you have it. If you are worried about a Donald Trump Presidency join the club my friend. I don’t like the idea and never have. But the alternative to that is far worse.
“Hillary Clinton has received about 1 million more votes than Trump has”
They are dummies for saying that. Trump has run primaries against anywhere from 4 to 12 other people. Obviously Trump will not be getting as many votes as Clinton. However, some primaries he has come close and a couple times actually beat her head to head. And this is when he was going against multiple opponents. Hillary on the other hand has a tough time dispatching a balding hunched over old socialist.
By the way, the GOP turnout has been almost double at times the democrat turnout in almost every primary. What does that tell us about motivated voters? Uh huh…
Or…makes it a larger party that actually wins more elections.
Right you are Max. Trump is almost bullet proof from such criticism.
One thing I have learned through the years about the left, they’re not stupid. They are attacking Trump now in the hopes that they prevent him from garnering the nomination. And the only reason that they want that to happen is because they think he can beat Hillary.
Personally, at this point I hope their strategy works because I think Ted Cruz would also beat Hillary by larger numbers.
I really doubt this will be the case if Trump is nominated, you’ve seen first hand on this thread how divided the GOP is over Trump. Despite the fact that the Donald considers himself a unifier he’s going to be hard pressed to win over the dissenters in the GOP. Only way I see it helping now is if Cruz gets the nomination and works a deal with Trump for him to bring his people along