The Next President of the United States: III

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
384

There are examples of governments limiting the use of internet of certain sites in their own countries, exactly how are you going to limit or shut down the internet in another country? Even if managed could they just not relocate? If ISIS has members/sympathizers across the globe could they just not contact said people and have information posted on their behalf?

It seems the only reliable way to block ISIS from the Internet is to block it for everyone and doing so, well… is BAD.

I agree with usmccds423 it is a slippery slope. It starts with shutting down access to ISIS next thing you know ISIS has “infiltrated” America and so, the internet must be controlled in the U.S. It just seems like fear mongering in an attempt to strip citizens of even more freedom.

385

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
"War is hell kid and when people die sometimes we have to bend the rules. I guess that the difference between living it and only reading about it. But then again I honestly don’t think you’ve read much on the topic.Ã? "

This has gotta be one of the funniest god damn things I’ve ever read on here.

One of us is a United States Marine the other is a keyboard jockey.
[/quote]

And one of us is much younger than the other, has less life experiences and has obviously studied much less on the topic. In addition to that the accuser, (you in case I lost you), putting in a few years in the military does not make you an expert. Clear?

When you get another 10 or 20 years under your belt you’ll learn not to make such snap judgments…either on the Internet or in real life.

(See, I told you it was heading to the insulting phase of the debate. We could have avoided it but…)

[/quote]

Being old doesn’t make you wise, you’ve made that abundantly clear.

386

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There are examples of governments limiting the use of internet of certain sites in their own countries, exactly how are you going to limit or shut down the internet in another country? Even if managed could they just not relocate? If ISIS has members/sympathizers across the globe could they just not contact said people and have information posted on their behalf?

It seems the only reliable way to block ISIS from the Internet is to block it for everyone and doing so, well… is BAD.

I agree with usmccds423 it is a slippery slope. It starts with shutting down access to ISIS next thing you know ISIS has “infiltrated” America and so, the internet must be controlled in the U.S. It just seems like fear mongering in an attempt to strip citizens of even more freedom.[/quote]

I agree with parts of both of them. My apprehension is that it would be abused like the Patriot Act. On the other hand I don’t think Isis should be as easy to access or enjoy the use of social media sites that are world wide but US based, like facebook, youtube, etc.

387

As I said you’re a clown ZEB, you’re exactly what’s wrong with this country and exactly what’s wrong with the Republican party. You’re all fire and brimstome about your rights until life gets a little rough and then your convinction melts away right along with your spine.

It’s laugahble you talk such a big game about how evil big bad government is and the turn around and not only accept, but defend the trampling of America’s right by said government. It’s fucking hilarious that you can’t see the glaring hypocrisy while claiming intellectual superiority. It’s laugahble hilarious that you think being old automatically makes you superior.

You are a joke.

388

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]

Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]

I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]

Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]

That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]

His assertion is that since in the past executive actions during wartime have limited individual rights, it’s okay do continue doing so in the future.[/quote]

Yes, it’s easy to be a Rand Paul and spout off about the constitution. But when innocent Americans are getting killed by Islamic terrorists it’s time to put the hammer down. Not just abroad but on America soil as well. It has been done in the past a few times. And it has always been temporary.
[/quote]

You are just fear mongering.
[/quote]

Yeah, I tend to do that when 17 innocent people are shot and killed by Islamic terrorists. Everyone has a point where they start to see things differently. As I said before yours might be if children are killed, or perhaps repeated deaths due to these monsters. As for me once is plenty. We need to wipe these bastards off the face of the earth by any means possible.[/quote]

We don’t need to suspend the Bill of Rights to defeat ISIS. That is my entire point. 17 people probably died this month in Baltimore City alone. Again, level headed perspective is needed here. [/quote]

You are being overly dramatic, not unlike Rand Paul. We are only talking about a .00001% of the Internet.

Honestly, who cares?

Especially if we can prevent our dumbest 20 something’s (and we have plenty of them) from joining these monsters.
[/quote]

Let’s just stifle .00001% of due process, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just cut off gun sales to .00001% of the population, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just not let .00001% of the population vote, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just illegally search .00001% of the American people, honestly, who cares?

Unreal.[/quote]
We already do this to fellons and prisoners. Why would we not do this to foreign criminals that have declared and acted upon their intentions of killing as many Americans as possible?[/quote]

usmccds423 does not quite understand that we would in fact be punishing ISIS. But he was or is a Marine so therefore he must be correct on every topic that has anything to do with…well anything. :slight_smile:

[/quote]
You guys are more informed than I am so I could be mistaken, but I haven’t heard anybody~ Hillary or Trump~ suggest that parts or access be shut down or restricted from US citizens. Just that they want to shut down ISIS use of it.
Any clarification or new info on that?[/quote]

I posted a link from CNN a page or so back that included a clip of Trump talking about this at a rally on 12/8. It is not clear, in my opinion, that he meant outside the United States. You should check it out and come to your own conclusion. It’s only a few minutes if that.

Shutting down access to the internet is considerably more difficult than some have suggested.

389

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There are examples of governments limiting the use of internet of certain sites in their own countries, exactly how are you going to limit or shut down the internet in another country? Even if managed could they just not relocate? If ISIS has members/sympathizers across the globe could they just not contact said people and have information posted on their behalf?

It seems the only reliable way to block ISIS from the Internet is to block it for everyone and doing so, well… is BAD.

I agree with usmccds423 it is a slippery slope. It starts with shutting down access to ISIS next thing you know ISIS has “infiltrated” America and so, the internet must be controlled in the U.S. It just seems like fear mongering in an attempt to strip citizens of even more freedom.[/quote]

Exactly. Even if you shut off the entire Middle East ISIS would still be able to get its message out.

390

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Let’s just stifle .00001% of due process, honestly, who cares?

Let’s just cut off gun sales to .00001% of the population, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just not let .00001% of the population vote, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just illegally search .00001% of the American people, honestly, who cares? [/quote]

Never said any of that as you well know. But …here on T nation when all else fails get out the straw man. Ha…

[/quote]

I’m not surprised this went over your head. [/quote]

Let me just clue in to one tiny little point. Been reading your posts for a long while and I assure you that nothing you can type into that computer of yours is capable of going over my head. (See that was nasty on my part we have to stop this it will only escalate)

Anyway, I know what a straw man argument is and that is what you were doing. Once again, I never said any of that and I suggest at this point we drop the issue…

Here come the insults I’m telling you this is how it usually ends on this great communication device that we have. That is until someone closes up .0000000001% of the Internet for a brief time to halt ISIS recruitment then all hell will break lose :slight_smile:

Okay seriously…comment’s like the following are just unnecessary and cause the recipient to answer back with similar fashion.

“I’m not surprised this went over your head.”

Not a nice thing to say…so again let’s end it here.

If you are upset with me use it in a smart way. Use it to get a new pr in the bench or something. Insulting me will only result in me insulting you back and then you will be even more angry. And exactly where will that get us?

We probably agree on 99% of all political topics.

Forget this one and just move on.

Zeb

[/quote]

Ya, it wasn’t a strawman you just missed the point. I almost hope Hillary wins so you’ll stop posting for another 4 years.[/quote]

Never stopped posting after Obama won. He won in 2008 I think I stopped posting in late 2012 for a couple of years because I was expanding my business.

Stop playing the part of the dumb kid…yes it fits you but it becomes less entertaining to me with every post.
[/quote]

I’m sure it had nothing to do with Romney losing, right.

391

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
Do we really have a “conservative” Republican championing FDR in this thread?[/quote]

Yes, seems odd right? I am not for FDR’s make work projects, social security and a long list of other semi-socialist programs. But he was a darn good war time President, as was Lincoln. Far better than the person that we have in the White House currently who won’t even say our enemies name or the word war. [/quote]

ZEB, here’s a WWII timeline: The History Place - World War II in Europe Timeline

Please compare and contrast the events involving Nazi Germany and Japan in that era with those involving ISIS/Al-Quaeda/Taliban/whoever else now. Look at the events that occurred both before and after the U.S. declared its neutrality. I’d say that significantly more occurred before the U.S. went to war at that time. CANADA declared war on Germany a mere five days after the U.S. declared its neutrality.

With whom should Obama admit that we are at war? If the United States is at war, what is its objective? What would constitute a victory in this war? Those would be some good questions to get answers to before giving the government extraordinary wartime powers, right?

392

Shutting down/censoring the Internet is treating a symptom and not dealing with the cancer of ISIS. They ain’t dumb. They would adapt.

Their ideology needs to be exposed as a fraud.

393

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
As I said you’re a clown ZEB, you’re exactly what’s wrong with this country and exactly what’s wrong with the Republican party. You’re all fire and brimstome about your rights until life gets a little rough and then your convinction melts away right along with your spine.

It’s laugahble you talk such a big game about how evil big bad government is and the turn around and not only accept, but defend the trampling of America’s right by said government. It’s fucking hilarious that you can’t see the glaring hypocrisy while claiming intellectual superiority. It’s laugahble hilarious that you think being old automatically makes you superior.

You are a joke.[/quote]

Yes, you have repeated those insults a few times now. However, they don’t mean anymore now than when you first began. I guess you have not yet learned that calling people names on the Internet does not make you right, nor does it make you look tough. The fact is you have not proven your point that temporarily shutting down one tiny part of the Internet (like stopping immigration temporarily) harms anyone’s freedom.

As for intellectual superiority, before the debate was even half way finished you resorted to name calling (remember I said it was coming). No surprises there. I’ve seen it repeatedly by many in their 20’s who have no patience for anyone who disagrees with them. Of course, that is not everyone your age, many are very bright and can handle being challenged without the verbal theatrics and name calling. You however do not fit into that category I’m very sorry to say. Your hot temper will not only not serve you well in debate it will also not serve you well in life. That is if you act the same way off line as you do online. But, that’s for you to find out.

But even though we disagree and your hate for me because of this one little topic is palpable …

I still wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy healthy and safe New Year.

Zeb

394

[quote]NickViar wrote:

With whom should Obama admit that we are at war?[/quote]

Islamic Terrorists.

Prevent Terrorist attacks within US borders and beyond.

Those questions are pretty easy. And the debate I was having with the hot tempered one is primarily about shutting down a tiny part of the Internet temporarily. The part where kids get recruited by ISIS. I would not go much further than this. I think it was a good suggestion by Trump. Just as his suggestion to build a wall and prevent illegal immigration was a good idea. However many on the left are howling about it being unfair. While as a candidate Trump leaves quite a bit to be desired he still has some good ideas.

Now here are a few questions back to you:

  1. Is the US at war?

  2. If the US is at war who are we at war with?

  3. How do you think we should handle Islamic terrorist attacks?

Love to hear your answers.

395

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Shutting down/censoring the Internet is treating a symptom and not dealing with the cancer of ISIS. They ain’t dumb. They would adapt.

Their ideology needs to be exposed as a fraud. [/quote]

Will it stop ISIS? Of course not. But it is one tool that can temporarily disrupt recruitment. Simply because I am for this one action does not mean that I am not for many other things that are much more harsh and aggressive. I do agree with you that there ideology needs to be exposed however.

What has Obama done in this regard? What has he done militarily to defeat ISIS?

What would you suggest The US do?

396

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I’m sure it had nothing to do with Romney losing, right.[/quote]

You are letting your temper distort your memory and thought process.

My final post on T Nation, before I dropped for a while because I had no time for anything but work, was July 7, 2013.

As I am sure you can remember Romney lost in November of 2012.

If Romney losing supposedly forced me off the Forum why did I continue to actively post for an additional EIGHT MONTHS after his loss?

Your argument in this case has no merit.

Throwing out stuff like that is just silly. You really have to calm down and relax. this is only the Internet and we are only debating. Trying to get personal with such baseless attacks only makes YOU look bad and neither of us wants that right?

Your Friend

Zeb :wink:

397

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
As I said you’re a clown ZEB, you’re exactly what’s wrong with this country and exactly what’s wrong with the Republican party. You’re all fire and brimstome about your rights until life gets a little rough and then your convinction melts away right along with your spine.

It’s laugahble you talk such a big game about how evil big bad government is and the turn around and not only accept, but defend the trampling of America’s right by said government. It’s fucking hilarious that you can’t see the glaring hypocrisy while claiming intellectual superiority. It’s laugahble hilarious that you think being old automatically makes you superior.

You are a joke.[/quote]

Yes, you have repeated those insults a few times now. However, they don’t mean anymore now than when you first began. I guess you have not yet learned that calling people names on the Internet does not make you right, nor does it make you look tough. The fact is you have not proven your point that temporarily shutting down one tiny part of the Internet (like stopping immigration temporarily) harms anyone’s freedom.

As for intellectual superiority, before the debate was even half way finished you resorted to name calling (remember I said it was coming). No surprises there. I’ve seen it repeatedly by many in their 20’s who have no patience for anyone who disagrees with them. Of course, that is not everyone your age, many are very bright and can handle being challenged without the verbal theatrics and name calling. You however do not fit into that category I’m very sorry to say. Your hot temper will not only not serve you well in debate it will also not serve you well in life. That is if you act the same way off line as you do online. But, that’s for you to find out.

But even though we disagree and your hate for me because of this one little topic is palpable …

I still wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy healthy and safe New Year.

Zeb

[/quote]

Nice revisionist history of this thread.

I don’t hate you, I think you’re a spineless fake conservative.

398

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[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I’m sure it had nothing to do with Romney losing, right.[/quote]

You are letting your temper distort your memory and thought process.

My final post on T Nation, before I dropped for a while because I had no time for anything but work, was July 7, 2013.

As I am sure you can remember Romney lost in November of 2012.

If Romney losing supposedly forced me off the Forum why did I continue to actively post for an additional EIGHT MONTHS after his loss?

Your argument in this case has no merit.

Throwing out stuff like that is just silly. You really have to calm down and relax. this is only the Internet and we are only debating. Trying to get personal with such baseless attacks only makes YOU look bad and neither of us wants that right?

Your Friend

Zeb :wink:

[/quote]

Lol, that’s total bullshit of course.

399

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Shutting down/censoring the Internet is treating a symptom and not dealing with the cancer of ISIS. They ain’t dumb. They would adapt.

Their ideology needs to be exposed as a fraud. [/quote]

Will it stop ISIS? Of course not. But it is one tool that can temporarily disrupt recruitment. Simply because I am for this one action does not mean that I am not for many other things that are much more harsh and aggressive. I do agree with you that there ideology needs to be exposed however.

What has Obama done in this regard? What has he done militarily to defeat ISIS?

What would you suggest The US do?[/quote]

Fight propaganda with propaganda. Use the Internet. Get them addicted to porn (half serious). These are young men. Pollute their minds with stuff ISIS is against. Introduce them to Elton John.

Encircle them. Bomb the shit out of them for 60 days, bring in troops to mop us. Civilians will be killed. Use Bribe and bully the rest of the world for their help. Declare war on them and use 1000 executive orders to make it happen.

400

Turning off the internet (as if that was a thing) is precisely the wrong tack. We should be showering the country with cellular devices and blanketing the airspace with wireless service.

For those old enough to remember, blue jeans and rock n’ roll did as much to bring the down Berlin Wall as Reagan did.

Let Islamic youth see what an educated, wealthy populace looks like and radicalism of all sorts drops to the wayside. Educate the girls and make sure young men have opportunity in this life time and the 70-odd virgins waiting for them in the next doesn’t seem so attractive anymore.

Trump - being a statist, blovaiting bully - puts next to no thought into the words that come out of his mouth.

“We are losing a lot of people to the Internet. We have to do something. We have to go see Bill Gates and a lot of different people that really understand what’s happening. We have to talk to them [about], maybe in certain areas, closing that internet up in some way.”

What a fucking clown, the guy thinks Bill Gates is in control of some super-secret internet kill switch.

401

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

I’m sure it had nothing to do with Romney losing, right.[/quote]

You are letting your temper distort your memory and thought process.

My final post on T Nation, before I dropped for a while because I had no time for anything but work, was July 7, 2013.

As I am sure you can remember Romney lost in November of 2012.

If Romney losing supposedly forced me off the Forum why did I continue to actively post for an additional EIGHT MONTHS after his loss?

Your argument in this case has no merit.

Throwing out stuff like that is just silly. You really have to calm down and relax. this is only the Internet and we are only debating. Trying to get personal with such baseless attacks only makes YOU look bad and neither of us wants that right?

Your Friend

Zeb :wink:

[/quote]

Lol, that’s total bullshit of course.[/quote]

LOL you actually posted the proof of my claim junior.

As I said my last post before my layoff was July 7, 2013 a full 8 months after Romney lost in November of 2012. I returned February 18, 2015. All anyone has to do is scroll up and look at the post dates.

You are going to have to relax emotion is making you do some odd things.

Anyway thanks for posting my proof.

See how far you have taken this from our original debate? And how bad you are looking in the process? You are now running on pure emotion and what good is it doing you?

(shaking head)

Oh well…

402

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
As I said you’re a clown ZEB, you’re exactly what’s wrong with this country and exactly what’s wrong with the Republican party. You’re all fire and brimstome about your rights until life gets a little rough and then your convinction melts away right along with your spine.

It’s laugahble you talk such a big game about how evil big bad government is and the turn around and not only accept, but defend the trampling of America’s right by said government. It’s fucking hilarious that you can’t see the glaring hypocrisy while claiming intellectual superiority. It’s laugahble hilarious that you think being old automatically makes you superior.

You are a joke.[/quote]

Yes, you have repeated those insults a few times now. However, they don’t mean anymore now than when you first began. I guess you have not yet learned that calling people names on the Internet does not make you right, nor does it make you look tough. The fact is you have not proven your point that temporarily shutting down one tiny part of the Internet (like stopping immigration temporarily) harms anyone’s freedom.

As for intellectual superiority, before the debate was even half way finished you resorted to name calling (remember I said it was coming). No surprises there. I’ve seen it repeatedly by many in their 20’s who have no patience for anyone who disagrees with them. Of course, that is not everyone your age, many are very bright and can handle being challenged without the verbal theatrics and name calling. You however do not fit into that category I’m very sorry to say. Your hot temper will not only not serve you well in debate it will also not serve you well in life. That is if you act the same way off line as you do online. But, that’s for you to find out.

But even though we disagree and your hate for me because of this one little topic is palpable …

I still wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a Happy healthy and safe New Year.

Zeb

[/quote]

Nice revisionist history of this thread.

I don’t hate you, I think you’re a spineless fake conservative. [/quote]

Yep…I think you’re mad.

I am enjoying though :slight_smile:

403

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Turning off the internet (as if that was a thing) is precisely the wrong tack. We should be showering the country with cellular devices and blanketing the airspace with wireless service.

For those old enough to remember, blue jeans and rock n’ roll did as much to bring the down Berlin Wall as Reagan did.

[/quote]

Well said.