[quote]Chushin wrote:
WTF?
You only read posts that fit your own narrative?
[/quote]
Which part of ZEB’s post did I have to further read to gain further insight to what he wrote?
If you are referring to your own post, I missed it. Sorry.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
We can firebomb Dresden and Tokyo and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki but OMG we don’t dare mess with the Syrian internet? C’mon man.
[/quote]
Entirely different things and you know it.
I never said anything about messing with Syria’s internet anyway… [/quote]
Look, I took it to mean that he wanted to inhibit ISIS’ internet access both coming and going. 1) So they couldn’t use it to communicate with each other and their proxies. 2) So they couldn’t recruit.
And that’s the way things panned out. In other words, after clarification that’s exactly what he meant.
But I DO understand your perspective.[/quote]
I appreciate you acknowledging that you see where I’m coming from. As I said earlier, if you can shut down communications, including internet access, to gain a tactical advantage militarily than I’m all for that.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]
Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]
I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]
Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]
That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]
His assertion is that since in the past executive actions during wartime have limited individual rights, it’s okay do continue doing so in the future.[/quote]
Yes, it’s easy to be a Rand Paul and spout off about the constitution. But when innocent Americans are getting killed by Islamic terrorists it’s time to put the hammer down. Not just abroad but on America soil as well. It has been done in the past a few times. And it has always been temporary.
[/quote]
You are just fear mongering.
[/quote]
Yeah, I tend to do that when 17 innocent people are shot and killed by Islamic terrorists. Everyone has a point where they start to see things differently. As I said before yours might be if children are killed, or perhaps repeated deaths due to these monsters. As for me once is plenty. We need to wipe these bastards off the face of the earth by any means possible.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]
Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]
I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]
Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]
That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]
Oh it makes sense
[/quote]
No it still doesn’t make sense. I don’t need to read about the civil war to understand what is written in the Constitution. Lincoln was wrong on this matter.[/quote]
What does “wrong” mean? Who won the civil war? Uh huh…
Gangs fighting gangs is quite a bit different than Islamic terrorists killing innocent Americans at will
And who won WWII? Uh huh…
You do that my friend. And I will remember our little chat the next time innocent Americans are gunned down by Islamic Terrorists at a Church, or some other place where such things shouldn’t happen.
I’m okay with temporarily taking 00001% of the Internet and locking it up tight so ISIS cannot recruit. It’s one of the ways we win.
As for your take on this matter, you are overly dramatic. Stop listening to Rand Paly or possibly Glenn Beck, or whoever put these thoughts in your head. When you step out of the theoretical world there are plenty of times where during the time of war things must bend a bit. Another example is torture. I’m all for it. If one piece of evidence is revealed through torture and it saves one American life I’m all for it. And by the way we did a whole lot of that during WWII…but you don’t know about that do you?
If you are not nastier than your enemy you lose. Not unlike a one on one confrontation where there are no rules.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
We can firebomb Dresden and Tokyo and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki but OMG we don’t dare mess with the Syrian internet? C’mon man.
[/quote]
Entirely different things and you know it.
I never said anything about messing with Syria’s internet anyway… [/quote]
Look, I took it to mean that he wanted to inhibit ISIS’ internet access both coming and going. 1) So they couldn’t use it to communicate with each other and their proxies. 2) So they couldn’t recruit.
And that’s the way things panned out. In other words, after clarification that’s exactly what he meant.
But I DO understand your perspective.[/quote]
That is what he wants to do and it completely reasonable.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]
PS: When are you coming to Japan? ;-)[/quote]
Soon, I hope! Would you mind if I got your personal email from Varq? I’d love to be able to reach out in the event that I do indeed return to Japan soon. (Also, if, by some stroke of catastrophe, this election became Trump-Sanders, I’ll be there in a heartbeat. With all of my belongings.)[/quote]
You’d damn sure better reach out to me, too, then.
Get my email from Varq, too, buddy. I’ve been meaning to get ahold of you outside this forum for a long time, particularly as I only read it now.[/quote]
Will do, my friend! I’ll shoot him an email today. You are three people that I would absolutely love to meet.
[quote]
Varq, Chushin and I are all hanging out at my place next week, as a matter of fact.
Push keeps making sounds like he’s going to join us on one of those forays, but we’re all still waiting on that to happen. [/quote]
Perhaps I can try to lure him over with me. I was actually thinking of trying for Japan next fall. It’s the only time of year I’ve ever been, but I can’t imagine the country is more beautiful during any other season.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]
Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]
I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]
Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]
That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]
His assertion is that since in the past executive actions during wartime have limited individual rights, it’s okay do continue doing so in the future.[/quote]
Yes, it’s easy to be a Rand Paul and spout off about the constitution. But when innocent Americans are getting killed by Islamic terrorists it’s time to put the hammer down. Not just abroad but on America soil as well. It has been done in the past a few times. And it has always been temporary.
[/quote]
You are just fear mongering.
[/quote]
Yeah, I tend to do that when 17 innocent people are shot and killed by Islamic terrorists. Everyone has a point where they start to see things differently. As I said before yours might be if children are killed, or perhaps repeated deaths due to these monsters. As for me once is plenty. We need to wipe these bastards off the face of the earth by any means possible.[/quote]
We don’t need to suspend the Bill of Rights to defeat ISIS. That is my entire point. 17 people probably died this month in Baltimore City alone. Again, level headed perspective is needed here.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]
Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]
I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]
Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]
That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]
Oh it makes sense
[/quote]
No it still doesn’t make sense. I don’t need to read about the civil war to understand what is written in the Constitution. Lincoln was wrong on this matter.[/quote]
What does “wrong” mean? Who won the civil war? Uh huh… [/quote]
It was wrong of Lincoln to suspend the rights of American citizens to win the civil war. The fact that the North won is completely irrelevant. Had the Nazi’s won WWII would it of magically been okay that they gasses millions of Jews?
[quote]
Gangs fighting gangs is quite a bit different than Islamic terrorists killing innocent Americans at will [/quote]
Way more American’s are killed in gang violence than by terrorists. It’s a much more significant and real problem.
[quote]
And who won WWII? Uh huh… [/quote]
Right or wrong isn’t dictated by who won.
[quote]
You do that my friend. And I will remember our little chat the next time innocent Americans are gunned down by Islamic Terrorists at a Church, or some other place where such things shouldn’t happen. [/quote]
I’m overly dramatic? 0.000005% of the populations is killed by terrorists on American soil and you’re okay with infringing on the Bill of Rights. Suspending Habeas Corpus, ya, that’s just bending a little. Interning American’s because they have Japanese ancestor, ya, that’s just bending a little. Oh, you’re cool with torture, well that’s just swell.
You don’t need to be nastier than the enemy to win. That’s absurd.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
[quote]
PS: When are you coming to Japan? ;-)[/quote]
Soon, I hope! Would you mind if I got your personal email from Varq? I’d love to be able to reach out in the event that I do indeed return to Japan soon. (Also, if, by some stroke of catastrophe, this election became Trump-Sanders, I’ll be there in a heartbeat. With all of my belongings.)[/quote]
You’d damn sure better reach out to me, too, then.
Get my email from Varq, too, buddy. I’ve been meaning to get ahold of you outside this forum for a long time, particularly as I only read it now.[/quote]
Will do, my friend! I’ll shoot him an email today. You are three people that I would absolutely love to meet.
[quote]
Varq, Chushin and I are all hanging out at my place next week, as a matter of fact.
Push keeps making sounds like he’s going to join us on one of those forays, but we’re all still waiting on that to happen. [/quote]
Perhaps I can try to lure him over with me. I was actually thinking of trying for Japan next fall. It’s the only time of year I’ve ever been, but I can’t imagine the country is more beautiful during any other season.[/quote]
Make it happen, man! Our part of the country is some of the most beautiful in all Japan. Much of Tokyo and Osaka has been covered in concrete and electric wires, but there’s still some great untapped nature and old world architecture down south that is, in my opinion, the best reason to come. I’ve got an extra apartment for you at my school, and there is a ton to take in here for the uninitiated. We’d love to have you!
That goes for you, too, push. But you’ve known that for a pretty dang long time now.
I’ll stop hijacking as soon as you shoot me that email.
ISIL militants don’t exactly practice rigorous OPSEC on their social media accounts. Geolocation data and actionable intelligence provided by ISIL posts are actually a boon for intelligence analysts producing targeting packages.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]
Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]
I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]
Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]
That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]
His assertion is that since in the past executive actions during wartime have limited individual rights, it’s okay do continue doing so in the future.[/quote]
Yes, it’s easy to be a Rand Paul and spout off about the constitution. But when innocent Americans are getting killed by Islamic terrorists it’s time to put the hammer down. Not just abroad but on America soil as well. It has been done in the past a few times. And it has always been temporary.
[/quote]
You are just fear mongering.
[/quote]
Yeah, I tend to do that when 17 innocent people are shot and killed by Islamic terrorists. Everyone has a point where they start to see things differently. As I said before yours might be if children are killed, or perhaps repeated deaths due to these monsters. As for me once is plenty. We need to wipe these bastards off the face of the earth by any means possible.[/quote]
We don’t need to suspend the Bill of Rights to defeat ISIS. That is my entire point. 17 people probably died this month in Baltimore City alone. Again, level headed perspective is needed here. [/quote]
You are being overly dramatic, not unlike Rand Paul. We are only talking about a .00001% of the Internet.
Honestly, who cares?
Especially if we can prevent our dumbest 20 something’s (and we have plenty of them) from joining these monsters.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
War time rights are different than peace time rights.
[/quote]
Well good thing we are in a state of perpetual war. Oceania will defeat Eurasia.
[/quote]
I must of missed where the constitution differentiates between peacetime and wartime rights. [/quote]
Read some history books and you will see.
[/quote]
That doesn’t even make sense Zeb.[/quote]
His assertion is that since in the past executive actions during wartime have limited individual rights, it’s okay do continue doing so in the future.[/quote]
Yes, it’s easy to be a Rand Paul and spout off about the constitution. But when innocent Americans are getting killed by Islamic terrorists it’s time to put the hammer down. Not just abroad but on America soil as well. It has been done in the past a few times. And it has always been temporary.
[/quote]
You are just fear mongering.
[/quote]
Yeah, I tend to do that when 17 innocent people are shot and killed by Islamic terrorists. Everyone has a point where they start to see things differently. As I said before yours might be if children are killed, or perhaps repeated deaths due to these monsters. As for me once is plenty. We need to wipe these bastards off the face of the earth by any means possible.[/quote]
We don’t need to suspend the Bill of Rights to defeat ISIS. That is my entire point. 17 people probably died this month in Baltimore City alone. Again, level headed perspective is needed here. [/quote]
You are being overly dramatic, not unlike Rand Paul. We are only talking about a .00001% of the Internet.
Honestly, who cares?
Especially if we can prevent our dumbest 20 something’s (and we have plenty of them) from joining these monsters.
[/quote]
Let’s just stifle .00001% of due process, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just cut off gun sales to .00001% of the population, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just not let .00001% of the population vote, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just illegally search .00001% of the American people, honestly, who cares?
Unreal.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Especially if we can prevent our dumbest 20 something’s (and we have plenty of them) from joining these monsters.
[/quote]
We should let the government dictate what young men and women can view on the internet. What could possibly go wrong…?
[quote]Bismark wrote:
ISIL militants don’t exactly practice rigorous OPSEC on their social media accounts. Geolocation data and actionable intelligence provided by ISIL posts are actually a boon for intelligence analysts producing targeting packages. [/quote]
Yeah, but I would argue that keeping those channels open indefinitely will have diminishing returns over time for intelligence gathering. But on the side of ISIS they still maintain their communications and chain of command and their ability to recruit remain status quo.
At some point we need to interrupt their communications and make it more difficult for them to communicate across their caliphate and associated cells.
We need to take out their revenue streams and their communications.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It was wrong of Lincoln to suspend the rights of American citizens to win the civil war. The fact that the North won is completely irrelevant. Had the Nazi’s won WWII would it of magically been okay that they gasses millions of Jews?[/quote]
Wrong? what does that mean? Would you have preferred slavery for another generation? Would you have preferred Hitler and his henchman to kill another 6 million Jews? Stop being so idealistic…that will come with age by the way (and that is not an insult). Lincoln did what he had to do and we won. End of story. FDR did the same thing.
If someone breaks into your house how much of a chance are you going to give him to harm your loved ones. Knowing you only through your posts I’m betting that the intruder gets owned and quickly. When the police get there, or when the intruders family talks to a lawyer you might be facing some problems. Do you care? You protected your family - You did the right thing.
Actually it is. The victors write the history books.
I understand that no one that you know and love has been killed by terrorists and I hope it stays that way. But God forbid if it did happen you would feel much differently. You would probably dress up like Rambo get a machine gun and go after them yourself. And who would blame you? Well here is a news flash for you. All of the theoretical talk goes down the drain when it affects YOU. Those 17 people had families how do you think that they feel right now? Do you think they are all hanging around and saying “well Mom was less than 0.000005% of the population so no real harm done.” Think again… This stuff is real and if we are not diligent in preventing it (which by the way Obama is not) it will happen again.
Take a look at where Lincoln is rated in the long list of Presidents. He is always very near the top of being the best ever elected. He thought it was a good idea and he won the war and helped free a very massive African American population that was held in slavery. At a certain point winning is the only thing that matters. Great leaders like Lincoln and FDR knew this. The left wing clueless ideologue that currently inhabits the White House won’t even admit that we are at war and won’t even say the enemy’s name. How do we win this way?
That’s one reason that I preach (mostly to deaf ears) here on T Nation about putting up a republican candidate who can actually win. And most of the youngsters around here scream that they want this guy or that guy even though they’d get eaten alive by Hillary and rejected out of hand by a population that votes mostly on L O O K S and charisma. It’s about winning. If we don’t defeat Hillary we don’t win. Okay I’m off the topic a bit but it’s generally the same thing…it’s about winning.
Reality my friend REALITY.
It was and is just swell. FDR won the war and in the beginning no one was sure that was going to happen. He did what he had to do. Just like we must right now. Honestly I don’t care if the PC crowd is offended. I care more about not seeing another bloody attack with the loss of innocent Americans the next time I turn on TV.
Absurd? It’s actually the only way we’ve ever won a war. let’s put it a different way. Let’s say that two men of equal size and strength, skill etc. are going to get into a fight. Here are the first man’s rules. He must wear 16 ounce boxing gloves and strike only with his hands and only to the body. The second man gets to bring to that fight a crow bar. He can also eye gauge, grapple, punch kick, bite etc.
Who do you think will win that fight? No, we have to take off the gloves with these monsters and that means being just as nasty, or even more so than they are.
In every war that we’ve won we were not tip toeing around like Obama wants to do. (with one exception Viet Nam. We were handcuffed in that war and look what happened). When we would capture an enemy combatant we would pretty much get him to talk by any means possible.
You need to read up on your war history.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Let’s just stifle .00001% of due process, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just cut off gun sales to .00001% of the population, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just not let .00001% of the population vote, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just illegally search .00001% of the American people, honestly, who cares? [/quote]
Never said any of that as you well know. But …here on T nation when all else fails get out the straw man. Ha…
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Especially if we can prevent our dumbest 20 something’s (and we have plenty of them) from joining these monsters.
[/quote]
We should let the government dictate what young men and women can view on the internet. What could possibly go wrong…? [/quote]
One more straw man. Who is saying that? Not me.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It was wrong of Lincoln to suspend the rights of American citizens to win the civil war. The fact that the North won is completely irrelevant. Had the Nazi’s won WWII would it of magically been okay that they gasses millions of Jews?[/quote]
Wrong? what does that mean? Would you have preferred slavery for another generation? Would you have preferred Hitler and his henchman to kill another 6 million Jews? Stop being so idealistic…that will come with age by the way (and that is not an insult). Lincoln did what he had to do and we won. End of story. FDR did the same thing.
If someone breaks into your house how much of a chance are you going to give him to harm your loved ones. Knowing you only through your posts I’m betting that the intruder gets owned and quickly. When the police get there, or when the intruders family talks to a lawyer you might be facing some problems. Do you care? You protected your family - You did the right thing. [/quote]
Habeas corpus HAD to be suspended to defeat the south and end slavery, come on. Give me a fucking break, Lincoln did not need to suspend habeas corpus to win the war. That’s total shit and it’s hardly the end of the story.
Thanks for the patronizing words…
[quote]
Actually it is. The victors write the history books. [/quote]
Still doesn’t make what they did right or wrong.
[quote]
I understand that no one that you know and love has been killed by terrorists and I hope it stays that way. But God forbid if it did happen you would feel much differently. You would probably dress up like Rambo get a machine gun and go after them yourself. And who would blame you? Well here is a news flash for you. All of the theoretical talk goes down the drain when it affects YOU. Those 17 people had families how do you think that they feel right now? Do you think they are all hanging around and saying “well Mom was less than 0.000005% of the population so no real harm done.” Think again… This stuff is real and if we are not diligent in preventing it (which by the way Obama is not) it will happen again. [/quote]
I understand that no one that you know and love has been killed by an American citizen that purchased a gun legally and I hope it stays that way. But God forbid if it did happen you would feel much differently. You would probably dress up like Rambo get a machine gun and go after them yourself. And who would blame you? Well here is a news flash for you. All of the theoretical talk goes down the drain when it affects YOU. Those 10,000 people had families how do you think that they feel right now? Do you think they are all hanging around and saying “well Mom was less than (whatever the percentage is) of the population so no real harm done.” Think again… This stuff is real and if we are not diligent in preventing it (which by the way Obama is not) it will happen again.
Absurd ZEB, utterly absurd.
Going after terrorists is one thing. Trampling on the rights of innocent Americans is another.
[quote]
Take a look at where Lincoln is rated in the long list of Presidents. He is always very near the top of being the best ever elected. He thought it was a good idea and he won the war and helped free a very massive African American population that was held in slavery. At a certain point winning is the only thing that matters. Great leaders like Lincoln and FDR knew this. The left wing clueless ideologue that currently inhabits the White House won’t even admit that we are at war and won’t even say the enemy’s name. How do we win this way? [/quote]
What you just wrote means nothing. He was a great President. One of the best. That doesn’t mean he was right 100% of the time. Do you even read what you write?
No one is talking about Obama, but since you keep bringing him up, would you support him if he wanted to suspend the people’s right to buy firearms in order to defeat Islamic Terrorism? Lincoln suspended the rights of Americans to win so did FDR and winning is all that matters, right?
[quote]
That’s one reason that I preach (mostly to deaf ears) here on T Nation about putting up a republican candidate who can actually win. And most of the youngsters around here scream that they want this guy or that guy even though they’d get eaten alive by Hillary and rejected out of hand by a population that votes mostly on L O O K S and charisma. It’s about winning. If we don’t defeat Hillary we don’t win. Okay I’m off the topic a bit but it’s generally the same thing…it’s about winning. [/quote]
Principles may not actually matter to you, but they matter to me.
[quote]
Reality my friend REALITY. [/quote]
lol…
[quote]
It was and is just swell. FDR won the war and in the beginning no one was sure that was going to happen. He did what he had to do. Just like we must right now. Honestly I don’t care if the PC crowd is offended. I care more about not seeing another bloody attack with the loss of innocent Americans the next time I turn on TV. [/quote]
The war against the Nazi’s and the Japanese Empire was so utterly and completely different than the war we are sort of fighting against a bunch of goat fuckers living in caves that it’s inconceivable that the comparison keeps coming up. We could wipe ISIS off the face of the planet in a matter of weeks if we wanted to. We wouldn’t even need all of the branches to do it either.
[quote]
Absurd? It’s actually the only way we’ve ever won a war. let’s put it a different way. Let’s say that two men of equal size and strength, skill etc. are going to get into a fight. Here are the first man’s rules. He must wear 16 ounce boxing gloves and strike only with his hands and only to the body. The second man gets to bring to that fight a crow bar. He can also eye gauge, grapple, punch kick, bite etc.
Who do you think will win that fight? No, we have to take off the gloves with these monsters and that means being just as nasty, or even more so than they are.
In every war that we’ve won we were not tip toeing around like Obama wants to do. (with one exception Viet Nam. We were handcuffed in that war and look what happened). When we would capture an enemy combatant we would pretty much get him to talk by any means possible.
You need to read up on your war history. [/quote]
You have no idea what you are talking about. You should take your own advice, close your browser, and go read a real history book.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Let’s just stifle .00001% of due process, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just cut off gun sales to .00001% of the population, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just not let .00001% of the population vote, honestly, who cares?
Let’s just illegally search .00001% of the American people, honestly, who cares? [/quote]
Never said any of that as you well know. But …here on T nation when all else fails get out the straw man. Ha…
[/quote]
I’m not surprised this went over your head.