Insignificant. A Pew fact sheet puts them at 3.5% of the population.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
109M Americans are welfare recipients with 62% of illegals collecting welfare. If you do the math that means illegals makeup roughly 6.2% of welfare recipients.
what sort of savings does that amount to? How many billions?
Edit:
That welfare figure I’m assuming doesn’t include imprisoned illegals as welfare recipients? I highly doubt it. Doesn’t it costs something absurd like 100k/year to house a prisoner? That doesn’t even include legal costs to put them through the system.
In 2014 they accounted for 36.7% of federal sentences.
What about other entitlements? Social security? Medicare? For the savings you’re talking about, I’m guessing it would either be a wash or a loss if you include the cost of deporting them. You cannot wave a wand to make people who have been living here, have property, children who are citizens, and jobs disappear. It would be an enormous effort that is dumb on its face. A better approach would be to work with employers to make it so illegals would not be able to find jobs and they would self deport, as Romney proposed and Trump mocked him for being too harsh.
By not vetoing bills that change them. If Trump sticks to his “not touching them” stance, it would make it significantly more challenging for congress to get changes made.
[quote=“Drew1411, post:2788, topic:212571, full:true”]
What about other entitlements? Social security?[/quote]
_The truth is that undocumented immigrants contribute more in payroll taxes than they will ever consume in public benefits. _
_Take Social Security. According to the Social Security Administration (SSA), unauthorized immigrants – who are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits – have paid an eye-popping $100 billion into the fund over the past decade. _
“They are paying an estimated $15 billion a year into Social Security with no intention of ever collecting benefits,” Stephen Goss, chief actuary of the SSA told CNNMoney. “Without the estimated 3.1 million undocumented immigrants paying into the system, Social Security would have entered persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover payouts starting in 2009,” he said.
That’s pretty interesting.
I have trouble with this stat, mainly because in order to pay FICA you need to be on payroll, or file a 1040, etc.
In any event you need a social security number, or tax ID of some kind.
That leads to, how on Earth is someone “undocumented” if they have a SSN/FID?
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From the same link:
Myth # 1: They don’t pay taxes
**Undocumented immigrants are already U.S. taxpayers. **
****Collectively, they paid an estimated $10.6 billion to state and local taxes in 2010, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), a research organization that works on tax policy issues. Contributions varied by state. In Montana they contributed $2 million. In California, more than $2.2 billion. On average they pay about 6.4% of their income in state and local taxes, ITEP said. __
**A 2007 Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on the impact of undocumented immigrants on the budgets of local and state governments cited IRS figures showing that 50% to 75% of the about 11 million unauthorized U.S. immigrants file and pay income taxes each year.**
Note, the two sources for this information is first, the Chief Actuary of the SSA, and next, theCBO.
The Nazis have already given us the blueprint on how to do this efficiently and effectively. Or wait do you deny the Holocaust?
Yeah I find these stats very suspect. I have a really hard time believing them
And the thing is I’m not even trying to argue there isn’t an overall cost to illegal immigration. I’m NOT making that argument. What I am saying is that somehow Trump managed to tap into some mindset which grossly overstates it. Significantly. He has somehow managed to convince people voting in Republican primaries (Republican primaries for goodness-sake) that it was ok to take entitlement reform off the table because of hordes of Mexican rapists and Spanish speaking people supposedly being the cause of our entitlement woes. They aren’t. The structure of those entitlements, and our native demographics (fertility rates) are.
It is a nativist America-first nanny state promise where the fault somehow fell on illegal immigrants. I’ve been saying for some time now that entitlement reform is unpopular, even amongst the tea party base. Trump has not only demonstrated this, but made it the official position (hands off my entitlements, it’s the illegals!) of the GoP with his nomination. A HUUUUUUUUGE set-back. Blame “the other.”
Ultimately it doesn’t matter because they broke a major law and now have to go back. The discussion ends there.
But what if you do allow them stay and eventually become citizens?
These people aren’t the best and brightest coming over so this leads to a few things as it relates to low IQ people:
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They will be more prone to criminality
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They will be more cavalier with their health choices meaning more drain on the healthcare system
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in a government school where everyone of all IQs go they will lead to a dumbing down of the curriculum
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The injection of low IQ workers only makes it harder on the current lower IQ Americans to find jobs and obliterates the wages.
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They weaken social ties in a society. When you drop large swaths of people illiterate in English and barely able speak English, you weaken communities and I would argue people feel less connected to one another as a result.
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You bring in more left wing large government voters and strengthen the Democratic voter base
From a matter of principal, what does it say of yourself if you squander the gifts your ancestors built for you by handing them over to any illegal invader that happens to make it to US soil?
If you put immigration-problem and entitlement-reform-need on opposite sides of the scale, the entitlement side would drop as if free-fall. Yet, somehow, it got sold out for a significantly lesser issue…I just don’t get it.
I understand the skepticism, but at the same time I don’t think the chief actuary of the social security administration would just throw a $15 Billion annual contribution figure out of his ass…
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People see how illegal immigration has effected their communities and are better able to connect with the issue compared to flat out numbers.
Well it says they don’t use food stamps but these stats show that they do, unless I’m misreading the table.
My ancestors invaded theirs…Just saying. While I’m not guilt-tripping over it, I’m certainly going to put the guy mowing the next door neighbor’s lawn into a different perspective than an invasion force. The folks on the reservation 20-30 minutes away? They might have a different, and more understandable perspective. Just saying!
It can end there and I can understand why you (generally speaking here) would want to end there. However, we’re talking about a significant number of people and a significant impact on the economy that, imo, should be considered in much more depth.
All these points are just non-sense generalizations not worth discussing.
You mean the ones that sailed here from Europe and claimed/took the land from the natives?
Agreed. Entitlement reform is the key issue.
I didn’t say they don’t use entitlements… I was referencing their payment into SS through payroll taxes.
So that means there were once documented, and overstayed?
I do taxes for a good bulk of my living. They need certain info to file.
It’s not so much I think it’s made up. I want to understand the process here, and how someone who isn’t “supposed” to be here, is paying taxes, and on payroll.
(Keep in mind I’m a “path to citizenship/ de facto amnesty” guy.)
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[quote=“anon50325502, post:2802, topic:212571, full:true”]
All these points are just non-sense generalizations not worth discussing. [/quote]
NO.
It’s not nonsense at all, IQ is a great predictor of one’s behaviour, this is a scientific fact based truth.
[quote]
You mean the ones that sailed here from Europe and claimed/took the land from the natives? [/quote]
And what do you think was going on in America pre-Europeans landing? The different native tribes were absolutely brutal to one another - scalping, raping and enslaving each other. Did you know the most violent time in America was before the Europeans even landed?
The Europeans just happen to be the tribe that won.