Biden will not jump in the race, he just announced from the White House.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
I stand by my statement that Trump/Carson say ridiculous things…
[/quote]
Trump? Yes. Carson, no.
You’re missing the obvious fact that the “ridiculous things” you despise are the very reason they are doing so well. In other words, a large number of Americans want their candidates to say things you don’t like and that says as much about you as it does them.
[/quote]
Are you saying that a large portion of Americans agree that being gay is a choice based on rapes that happen in prison? That Arab governments would’ve given up Osama bin Laden if we woud’ve said we would be oil independent (not possible even if we said that), and that the victims at the Oregen shooting should not have just stood there?
I would not want someone who says those things in the white house, even if he puts a ‘R’ next to his name. The fact that people are overlooking those statements, which he has doubled down on, gives good perspective on who his supporters are.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
As far as being gay is a choice or not, we’ve had that discussion on other threads. Whether or not it’s a choice, there is no scientific proof whatsoever it’s a choice. None. Only speculation. And that’s a fact you can’t refute unless you use “feelings” and feelings don’t equal proof.
So a large portion of Americans might not be off the mark. And that would mean Carson ain’t all that ridiculous.[/quote]
As far as the OR shooting, whether the people should’ve done more or not is not the point, you don’t tell someone who was just a victim that they should’ve done more. Especially if you have never been in that situation. I would never tell a woman to ‘just take it’, she should fight for her life. If she had a knife to her throat and didn’t fight as I think she should, I wouldn’t tell her after the fact that she should’ve done more. They were victims, let it be. I thought it was a terrible political statement, and he doubled down.
As far as gay being a choice… that view is out of mainstream. It might get some right wingers fired up, but as I said, I am embarrassed to be associated with those people.
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
The fact that people are overlooking those statements, which he has doubled down on, gives good perspective on who his supporters are.[/quote]
Because someone who says whatever is currently polling well, irrelevant if they actually believe it or not, is better?
I’d rather see someone lose because they stood on their convictions than see some jackass win because they were full of shit and appeased people’s feels.
While he is a moron (and the fact he polls so well speaks the same volumes about D voters) at least Sanders has convictions. They are based on economic ignorance, anti-freedom, envy and bigotry of other Americans, but they are at least there and he is doubling down on being a dipshit.
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
As far as gay being a choice… that view is out of mainstream.[/quote]
Because it doesn’t poll well, or there is sound scientific evidence?
Honest question here. Personally I don’t give a shit if anyone is gay other than my wife, and am okay with SCOTUS shooting down Bill Clinton’s DOMA.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Biden will not jump in the race, he just announced from the White House.
[/quote]
I can imagine the immense amount of behind the scenes wrangling that must’ve taken place.[/quote]
How fantastical would it be if Hillary now got indicted ? I would shit out a pink unicorn.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Because it doesn’t poll well, or there is sound scientific evidence?
Honest question here. Personally I don’t give a shit if anyone is gay other than my wife, and am okay with SCOTUS shooting down Bill Clinton’s DOMA.
[/quote]
Scientifically, we don’t know one way or another, but the same goes for the reverse - scientific evidence doesn’t point to it being a choice either. In my opinion, it may be one or more of a combination of prenatal, genetic and/or social environment factors that have yet to be completely understood by sociobiologists. There are, however, millions of homosexuals who can offer personal, albeit anecdotal experiences, recalling attraction to persons of the same sex for as long as that person can recall being acclimated with his or her own sexual identity, in the same manner that many heterosexuals can do the same. That doesn’t, however, mean that there aren’t outliers who, via experimentation or other social experiences, cannot honestly choose to have sexual relations with persons of the same sex either.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
The fact that people are overlooking those statements, which he has doubled down on, gives good perspective on who his supporters are.[/quote]
Because someone who says whatever is currently polling well, irrelevant if they actually believe it or not, is better?
I’d rather see someone lose because they stood on their convictions than see some jackass win because they were full of shit and appeased people’s feels.
While he is a moron (and the fact he polls so well speaks the same volumes about D voters) at least Sanders has convictions. They are based on economic ignorance, anti-freedom, envy and bigotry of other Americans, but they are at least there and he is doubling down on being a dipshit. [/quote]
I absolutely agree, I don’t like Sanders’ positions but at least he’s honest. I believe Ben Carson is being honest as well, and I don’t agree with his views. Compare that with Clinton, who will say whatever it takes to fit the polling. I can’t stand Clinton and have no idea what she truely believes, I can only trust her to chase power.
When somebody puts a Bernie sign in their yard, that tells me something about them (anti-freedom etc. as you stated). When somebody supports Carson/Trump, that also tells me something about them.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
Don’t get me wrong, Trump isn’t my first choice for the nomination. I just think his talking points aren’t as “radical” as many would have us believe.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
As far as gay being a choice… that view is out of mainstream.[/quote]
Because it doesn’t poll well, or there is sound scientific evidence?
Honest question here. Personally I don’t give a shit if anyone is gay other than my wife, and am okay with SCOTUS shooting down Bill Clinton’s DOMA.
[/quote]
Currently, it doesn’t poll well. Carson is stating his view on the situation, and uses prison rape as his logic why being gay is a choice. I do not agree, and the majority does not think that way. I’m with you, I don’t care what someone does in their bedroom. That is not my business.
I’m not saying Carson should change his views based on polling, I’m saying that I’m baffled that he is getting so much support on the Republican side with that view. They are either ignoring or supporting that statement.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Biden will not jump in the race, he just announced from the White House.
[/quote]
I can imagine the immense amount of behind the scenes wrangling that must’ve taken place.[/quote]
There is a reason why Barry the blunt burner was standing next to him during the speech …
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
They are either ignoring or supporting that statement.[/quote]
Some are tired of being fed rhetoric and enjoying people speaking their convictions.
Sort of like a lot of TB’s points in the Boner thread. He is making very valid points, and is very much correct in his assessment, generally speaking, about the state of the R party, what would be good and bad for it.
That said, and I think this is where Push is coming from. For some of us, myself included, the end game isn’t party dominance at this point. I know for me personally, looking at 43’s term… I don’t want THAT republican party in office. I’m about done with the Commiecrats with someone like Sanders smoking someone like Webb, that party has completely left planet Earth.
So what do I do? I applaud that at the very least, right or wrong, efficient or not, at least one of the parties is actually trying to suck less rather than more. And the left’s insane amount of ridicule and vitriol related to that change is really just confirmation that it’s important, needed and scares the living shit out of the establishment left too.
That’s why weird shit like the gay comment doesn’t bother me from Carson. Do I agree with it? Nope. Was it a smart political thing to say? Double Nope. Is that belief going to effect how he would be as POTUS? Nope. It’s sort of like people who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, or don’t believe in evolution… End of the day it doesn’t matter if they do their fucking job, and 999,999 out of 1,000,000 their job won’t be effected by those beliefs.
There won’t be any “gay” legislation anytime soon.
Sort of
[quote]JR249 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Because it doesn’t poll well, or there is sound scientific evidence?
Honest question here. Personally I don’t give a shit if anyone is gay other than my wife, and am okay with SCOTUS shooting down Bill Clinton’s DOMA.
[/quote]
Scientifically, we don’t know one way or another, but the same goes for the reverse - scientific evidence doesn’t point to it being a choice either. In my opinion, it may be one or more of a combination of prenatal, genetic and/or social environment factors that have yet to be completely understood by sociobiologists. There are, however, millions of homosexuals who can offer personal, albeit anecdotal experiences, recalling attraction to persons of the same sex for as long as that person can recall being acclimated with his or her own sexual identity, in the same manner that many heterosexuals can do the same. That doesn’t, however, mean that there aren’t outliers who, via experimentation or other social experiences, cannot honestly choose to have sexual relations with persons of the same sex either.
[/quote]
This. Though to simply say it is a choice is actually more unscientific, because there is evidence of genetic and epigenetic influence. Identical twins are more often both gay than fraternal twins, e.g.
More importantly, to think that something as complex as sexual attraction can be reduced to a single answer is ridiculous.
And anecdotally, it doesn’t much matter because, as you say, plenty of people will tell you that it just happened to them at around the same age that heterosexual attraction happens to straight people. The word “choice” loses meaning at that point.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
I’m saying that I’m baffled that he is getting so much support on the Republican side with that view.
[/quote]
You need to get out more. I’m not being insulting, I’m just saying I don’t think you understand that a large portion of Republican voters don’t share your views about the subject.
[/quote]
I’m not sure where I should be going to get exposed to anti-gay people, and frankly, I don’t want to be associated with hate hyping right wingers. I think a large portion of republicans are against gay marriage, but I think thats different than saying being gay is a choice.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So what do I do? I applaud that at the very least, right or wrong, efficient or not, at least one of the parties is actually trying to suck less rather than more. And the left’s insane amount of ridicule and vitriol related to that change is really just confirmation that it’s important, needed and scares the living shit out of the establishment left too.
That’s why weird shit like the gay comment doesn’t bother me from Carson. Do I agree with it? Nope. Was it a smart political thing to say? Double Nope. Is that belief going to effect how he would be as POTUS? Nope. It’s sort of like people who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old, or don’t believe in evolution… End of the day it doesn’t matter if they do their fucking job, and 999,999 out of 1,000,000 their job won’t be effected by those beliefs.
[/quote]
Maybe this is the point I’m missing, but it was a political mistake and gives the democrats ammo to use against him.
Thanks for the perspective.