He’s a socialist. I respect nothing about him. His goal is to take away any freedom my children have left.
He can take all this bullshit “reach across the aisle” snake in the grass bullshit and shove it straight up his old white ass. [/quote]
While watching football with a few people this weekend Bernie Sanders got brought up and at least four said they would vote for him. Though I tried to bite my tongue in a room full of friends, I basically said what you just did, and brought the room to awkward silence.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Donald Trump
-Bloviator and Chief
10 minutes into his speech and he has said literally nothing.[/quote]
I think the same thing can be said for everyone in the primary race, democratic or republican. Well, lets go a little further and include the Senate, Congress, and the Executive branch. Truly, we are blessed with such a stellar display of leadership. My disgust with our “politicians” knows no bounds. It you have any small children, look and them and think hard about what kind of future they will have with our current “leaders”. What a fucking joke.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Donald Trump
-Bloviator and Chief
10 minutes into his speech and he has said literally nothing.[/quote]
I think the same thing can be said for everyone in the primary race, democratic or republican. Well, lets go a little further and include the Senate, Congress, and the Executive branch. Truly, we are blessed with such a stellar display of leadership. My disgust with our “politicians” knows no bounds. It you have any small children, look and them and think hard about what kind of future they will have with our current “leaders”. What a fucking joke.
[/quote]
And maybe that’s why Trump, Carson and Fiorina are popular. The message from the people is simple “if you are a traditional long time politician we don’t want you.”
And on the other side of the isle Bernie Sanders the Socialist is beating Hillary in both New Hampshire and Vermont.
It’s a really bad year for traditional politicians.
I think this has been caused by two factors, the many lies and failures of Barack Obama on the democratic side. And on the republican side it is caused by the many people who were elected during the mid-term elections (or before) who promised to stop the various Obama programs and did nothing.
So…apparently both sides are now going to get a taste of vengeance from the voters. Truly a unique presidential election year. Still early but not looking good for the old school boys and girls.
He’s a socialist. I respect nothing about him. His goal is to take away any freedom my children have left.
He can take all this bullshit “reach across the aisle” snake in the grass bullshit and shove it straight up his old white ass. [/quote]
While watching football with a few people this weekend Bernie Sanders got brought up and at least four said they would vote for him. Though I tried to bite my tongue in a room full of friends, I basically said what you just did, and brought the room to awkward silence.
[/quote]
I refuse to shoot with one of a my very best friend’s good buddies now. I don’t shoot guns with commies and defectors. (he has a shit collection anyway…)
Not my fault people don’t read history books.
EDIT: to be clear, my good friend, I shoot with. His buddy, the commie, I don’t.
He’s a socialist. I respect nothing about him. His goal is to take away any freedom my children have left.
He can take all this bullshit “reach across the aisle” snake in the grass bullshit and shove it straight up his old white ass. [/quote]
While watching football with a few people this weekend Bernie Sanders got brought up and at least four said they would vote for him. Though I tried to bite my tongue in a room full of friends, I basically said what you just did, and brought the room to awkward silence.
[/quote]
I refuse to shoot with one of a my very best friend’s good buddies now. I don’t shoot guns with commies and defectors. (he has a shit collection anyway…)
Not my fault people don’t read history books.
EDIT: to be clear, my good friend, I shoot with. His buddy, the commie, I don’t. [/quote]
He’s a socialist. I respect nothing about him. His goal is to take away any freedom my children have left.
He can take all this bullshit “reach across the aisle” snake in the grass bullshit and shove it straight up his old white ass. [/quote]
While watching football with a few people this weekend Bernie Sanders got brought up and at least four said they would vote for him. Though I tried to bite my tongue in a room full of friends, I basically said what you just did, and brought the room to awkward silence.
[/quote]
I refuse to shoot with one of a my very best friend’s good buddies now. I don’t shoot guns with commies and defectors. (he has a shit collection anyway…)
Not my fault people don’t read history books.
EDIT: to be clear, my good friend, I shoot with. His buddy, the commie, I don’t. [/quote]
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
Anyone enjoying the effects of independent or simply new (newly prominent) politicians on the political scene both in the UK and U.S?
Jeremy Corbyn’s first PM question time was great, the exchanges with Cameron were fun and due to his history some serious questions on his past support for the IRA came up, even if you disagree with politicians it is refreshing to have the likes of Trump, Sanders, Corbyn etc on the scene.
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
[/quote]
Bernie is to the right of Social democrats in Sweden, Ireland, Germany etc. How does his ideology stand as socialist, the socialist platform hinges on more than supporting high taxes, gun control and market restrictions. Unless he is actually proposing a centralised economy, with public and state owned production, he isn’t a socialist.
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
[/quote]
Bernie is to the right of Social democrats in Sweden, Ireland, Germany etc. How does his ideology stand as socialist, the socialist platform hinges on more than supporting high taxes, gun control and market restrictions. Unless he is actually proposing a centralised economy, with public and state owned production, he isn’t a socialist. [/quote]
This is best measured on a spectrum from fully controlled economy to free market. No country is 100% one or the other its all in-between. He wants to move in the direction closer to the centralized so he is labeled a socialist. Plus he labels himself this way, if your a fan of his why dispute what he is saying? It would be more accurate to say he wants to add more socialist aspects to our economy, whatever you want to label that as.
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
[/quote]
Bernie is to the right of Social democrats in Sweden, Ireland, Germany etc. How does his ideology stand as socialist, the socialist platform hinges on more than supporting high taxes, gun control and market restrictions. Unless he is actually proposing a centralised economy, with public and state owned production, he isn’t a socialist. [/quote]
This is best measured on a spectrum from fully controlled economy to free market. No country is 100% one or the other its all in-between. He wants to move in the direction closer to the centralized so he is labeled a socialist. Plus he labels himself this way, if your a fan of his why dispute what he is saying? It would be more accurate to say he wants to add more socialist aspects to our economy, whatever you want to label that as.[/quote]
I am not really a fan of Bernie Sanders, and if I was I wouldn’t lie and pretend he is a socialist to pump the dude up to the left base.
Which of these boxes does Bernie Sanders tick ?
(Bernie identifies himself as a democratic socialist by the way)
Bernie Sanders is inbetween liberalism and democratic socialist, these terms however can not be simply labelled socialism, as Socialism, democratic socialism, social democracy, liberalism, left libertarian, Communist, Marxist etc are all different.
The people calling Bernie Sanders a socialist are basically making jumps between ideology, for example Trump supports corporations, opposes immigration and wants a strong military, so did the Nazi Party, thee for, he is national socialist. No, many different political ideologies share aspects with different ideologies, even ones they are at odds with.
For example here is a screenshot I just took from the Socialist boards
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
[/quote]
Bernie is to the right of Social democrats in Sweden, Ireland, Germany etc. How does his ideology stand as socialist, the socialist platform hinges on more than supporting high taxes, gun control and market restrictions. Unless he is actually proposing a centralised economy, with public and state owned production, he isn’t a socialist. [/quote]
This is best measured on a spectrum from fully controlled economy to free market. No country is 100% one or the other its all in-between. He wants to move in the direction closer to the centralized so he is labeled a socialist. Plus he labels himself this way, if your a fan of his why dispute what he is saying? It would be more accurate to say he wants to add more socialist aspects to our economy, whatever you want to label that as.[/quote]
I am not really a fan of Bernie Sanders, and if I was I wouldn’t lie and pretend he is a socialist to pump the dude up to the left base.
Which of these boxes does Bernie Sanders tick ?
(Bernie identifies himself as a democratic socialist by the way)
Bernie Sanders is inbetween liberalism and democratic socialist, these terms however can not be simply labelled socialism, as Socialism, democratic socialism, social democracy, liberalism, left libertarian, Communist, Marxist etc are all different.
The people calling Bernie Sanders a socialist are basically making jumps between ideology, for example Trump supports corporations, opposes immigration and wants a strong military, so did the Nazi Party, thee for, he is national socialist. No, many different political ideologies share aspects with different ideologies, even ones they are at odds with.
For example here is a screenshot I just took from the Socialist boards
[/quote]
None of this really contradicts what I said. By calling him a socialist in the context of the current candidates running it just means he is the closest to that in the political spectrum. He can still be far off from a real socialist but hes still the closest we’ve had so far with high poll numbers so he gets that label until one of those guys from the forum post pictures you posted runs and makes Bernie look like Ronald Reagan.
Anyways the qualities most people don’t like about socialism are also present in democratic socialism so does it really matter what term is used? It’s not like “I hate bernie because hes a socialist” … “Actually hes a democratic socialist” … “Ohhh in that case hes got my vote”.
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
[/quote]
Bernie is to the right of Social democrats in Sweden, Ireland, Germany etc. How does his ideology stand as socialist, the socialist platform hinges on more than supporting high taxes, gun control and market restrictions. Unless he is actually proposing a centralised economy, with public and state owned production, he isn’t a socialist. [/quote]
This is best measured on a spectrum from fully controlled economy to free market. No country is 100% one or the other its all in-between. He wants to move in the direction closer to the centralized so he is labeled a socialist. Plus he labels himself this way, if your a fan of his why dispute what he is saying? It would be more accurate to say he wants to add more socialist aspects to our economy, whatever you want to label that as.[/quote]
I am not really a fan of Bernie Sanders, and if I was I wouldn’t lie and pretend he is a socialist to pump the dude up to the left base.
Which of these boxes does Bernie Sanders tick ?
(Bernie identifies himself as a democratic socialist by the way)
Bernie Sanders is inbetween liberalism and democratic socialist, these terms however can not be simply labelled socialism, as Socialism, democratic socialism, social democracy, liberalism, left libertarian, Communist, Marxist etc are all different.
The people calling Bernie Sanders a socialist are basically making jumps between ideology, for example Trump supports corporations, opposes immigration and wants a strong military, so did the Nazi Party, thee for, he is national socialist. No, many different political ideologies share aspects with different ideologies, even ones they are at odds with.
For example here is a screenshot I just took from the Socialist boards
[/quote]
None of this really contradicts what I said. By calling him a socialist in the context of the current candidates running it just means he is the closest to that in the political spectrum. He can still be far off from a real socialist but hes still the closest we’ve had so far with high poll numbers so he gets that label until one of those guys from the forum post pictures you posted runs and makes Bernie look like Ronald Reagan.
Anyways the qualities most people don’t like about socialism are also present in democratic socialism so does it really matter what term is used? It’s not like “I hate bernie because hes a socialist” … “Actually hes a democratic socialist” … “Ohhh in that case hes got my vote”.[/quote]
Well for example National Socialism and Democratic Socialism are extreme opposites, just because he is closer to a socialist than members of mainstream politicians does not make him socialist. I understand your point about the perception because he is closer to a socialist than any other candidate, but just because he has the name in a political title does not equate the same ideology.
For example the socialist parties all only agree with entryist political endeavours, to create support for their goal, which is the working class, gaining “class consciousness” and “taking control of the means of production” and having a revolution which abolishes the “bourgeois state” and ushers in “the dictatorship of the proletariat”. That is official socialist party ideology.
Bernie Sanders is closer to George Bush than he is to the Socialist Party. He isn’t close to either, but the mere fact he believes in a heavily regulated market system means he is closer to a Republican than a socialist, socialists don’t believe in the market.
Now just because I argue Sanders isn’t a socialist, does not mean I either support Sanders or think socialism is anything but good in theory, shit in practise. However it is important to be accurate in how we label people. Otherwise we get this situation where people on one side think Obama is a Marxist and people on the other think Bush was a Neo-Fascist.
If the following link contains a good description of socialism, who was the last non-socialist President?
[/quote]
I made it to here A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common. It’s anti-freedom by definition, like I said. Call it what-ever-the-fuck-you-want, it ain’t freedom by any stretch.
That said. Even Bam the “former” communist, oops I mean staunch capitalist that was only raised by, mentored by, and surrounded himself with commies, didn’t truly attempt to take property.
Shit FDR maybe then? Anyone else confiscate property and put people in camps since the Democrat Hero FDR?
[/quote]
I agree that it’s not freedom. Sanders as President would either be more of the same or bring a collapse that may allow your children to experience freedom one day. That’s the only redeeming quality of aggressive socialism(as opposed to the reserved socialism we have lived our entire lives under)-it CAN’T last for long. The reserved kind? Who knows how long it can(“can” is the correct word-it’s not going away without collapse) plod along.
[/quote]
Bernie is to the right of Social democrats in Sweden, Ireland, Germany etc. How does his ideology stand as socialist, the socialist platform hinges on more than supporting high taxes, gun control and market restrictions. Unless he is actually proposing a centralised economy, with public and state owned production, he isn’t a socialist. [/quote]
This is best measured on a spectrum from fully controlled economy to free market. No country is 100% one or the other its all in-between. He wants to move in the direction closer to the centralized so he is labeled a socialist. Plus he labels himself this way, if your a fan of his why dispute what he is saying? It would be more accurate to say he wants to add more socialist aspects to our economy, whatever you want to label that as.[/quote]
I am not really a fan of Bernie Sanders, and if I was I wouldn’t lie and pretend he is a socialist to pump the dude up to the left base.
Which of these boxes does Bernie Sanders tick ?
(Bernie identifies himself as a democratic socialist by the way)
Bernie Sanders is inbetween liberalism and democratic socialist, these terms however can not be simply labelled socialism, as Socialism, democratic socialism, social democracy, liberalism, left libertarian, Communist, Marxist etc are all different.
The people calling Bernie Sanders a socialist are basically making jumps between ideology, for example Trump supports corporations, opposes immigration and wants a strong military, so did the Nazi Party, thee for, he is national socialist. No, many different political ideologies share aspects with different ideologies, even ones they are at odds with.
For example here is a screenshot I just took from the Socialist boards
[/quote]
None of this really contradicts what I said. By calling him a socialist in the context of the current candidates running it just means he is the closest to that in the political spectrum. He can still be far off from a real socialist but hes still the closest we’ve had so far with high poll numbers so he gets that label until one of those guys from the forum post pictures you posted runs and makes Bernie look like Ronald Reagan.
Anyways the qualities most people don’t like about socialism are also present in democratic socialism so does it really matter what term is used? It’s not like “I hate bernie because hes a socialist” … “Actually hes a democratic socialist” … “Ohhh in that case hes got my vote”.[/quote]
Well for example National Socialism and Democratic Socialism are extreme opposites, just because he is closer to a socialist than members of mainstream politicians does not make him socialist. I understand your point about the perception because he is closer to a socialist than any other candidate, but just because he has the name in a political title does not equate the same ideology.
For example the socialist parties all only agree with entryist political endeavours, to create support for their goal, which is the working class, gaining “class consciousness” and “taking control of the means of production” and having a revolution which abolishes the “bourgeois state” and ushers in “the dictatorship of the proletariat”. That is official socialist party ideology.
Bernie Sanders is closer to George Bush than he is to the Socialist Party. He isn’t close to either, but the mere fact he believes in a heavily regulated market system means he is closer to a Republican than a socialist, socialists don’t believe in the market.
Now just because I argue Sanders isn’t a socialist, does not mean I either support Sanders or think socialism is anything but good in theory, shit in practise. However it is important to be accurate in how we label people. Otherwise we get this situation where people on one side think Obama is a Marxist and people on the other think Bush was a Neo-Fascist. [/quote]
I mostly agree With you and have on this forum argued that Bernie( atleast his current platform ) is closer to social-democracy than democratic socialism. However he is to the left of mainstream social-democrats in Scandinavia who are outright cenrists ala Hillary or Tony Blair. I Call myself a democratic socialist and by that I mean I want to work towards a society With a democratic state and socialist economy( where the means of Productions are owned in common by the Public or/and by the workers trough Cooperatives ). I do however support Sanders( I am not a US Citizen so I can not vote for him ) even though he is to the right for me. The reason I support him or Corbyn in the Uk for that matter is because they are the most leftwing candidates who stands a chance gaining Power. Its cool and all being ultra-purist and supporting ultra-purist candidates and partys, but that doesnt do much in getting shit done. Also many of his policy’s would do the Usa a ton of good, like universal Health care, free higher education, de-privatization of prisons, a higher minimum wage etc.
The one thing I am most concerned about regarding Bernie is that he is not anti-militarist enough for my taste, but again better than rest of the Field, both left and right.
