The New Atheist - Mock and Ridicule Believers

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
61

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Atheism does not require faith, it requires reason. We are hardwired for religious belief and the atheist is going against that wiring, whether God or evolution (or both) wired us that way is another matter, by using reason and logic. The problem most religious people have is accepting the irrationality of their beliefs. It doesn’t mean they are wrong. [/quote]

It does require faith. There is no God and you believe it, but there is no reason to back it up.
Atheists have the same problem as theists philosophically. Why there exists something rather than nothing is still a philosophical problem whether you are theist or atheist.
The theist believes that something, whatever that may be exists because God caused it to exist. Atheists have varying theories on why something exists rather than nothing, but they have very little agreement on what ‘that’ is. They just know it’s not God.
The existence of God can be philosophically argued to be true and though objections do exist, they have yet to be proven.[/quote]

2+2=4 requires faith.

SMH does a pretty good job of showing you where you come up short philosophically.

No “reason” to back it up is an opinion. It’s your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. [/quote]

2+2=4 requires faith? Uh no. That is deductive necessity. I need no faith to know that if I have 2 and add 2 more, I will have 4. No faith required. It’s a deductive necessity.

What do you have against me? You seem pretty pissed off at me for some reason?

62

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Atheism does not require faith, it requires reason. We are hardwired for religious belief and the atheist is going against that wiring, whether God or evolution (or both) wired us that way is another matter, by using reason and logic. The problem most religious people have is accepting the irrationality of their beliefs. It doesn’t mean they are wrong. [/quote]

It does require faith. There is no God and you believe it, but there is no reason to back it up.
Atheists have the same problem as theists philosophically. Why there exists something rather than nothing is still a philosophical problem whether you are theist or atheist.
The theist believes that something, whatever that may be exists because God caused it to exist. Atheists have varying theories on why something exists rather than nothing, but they have very little agreement on what ‘that’ is. They just know it’s not God.
The existence of God can be philosophically argued to be true and though objections do exist, they have yet to be proven.[/quote]

2+2=4 requires faith.

SMH does a pretty good job of showing you where you come up short philosophically.

No “reason” to back it up is an opinion. It’s your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. [/quote]

2+2=4 requires faith? Uh no. That is deductive necessity. I need no faith to know that if I have 2 and add 2 more, I will have 4. No faith required. It’s a deductive necessity.

What do you have against me? You seem pretty pissed off at me for some reason? [/quote]

You just told me atheism required faith and it had no reason despite all the reasoning behind it. By that logic EVERYTHING requires faith.

I’m not pissed at you at all. You’re the one spouting off personal attacks. Don’t talk about me and then try and play the victim like I’m out to get you. You’re just inconsistent. I have nothing against you. I have a lot against hypocrisy. You don’t view it as hypocritical and I guess I do.

63

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Atheism does not require faith, it requires reason. We are hardwired for religious belief and the atheist is going against that wiring, whether God or evolution (or both) wired us that way is another matter, by using reason and logic. The problem most religious people have is accepting the irrationality of their beliefs. It doesn’t mean they are wrong. [/quote]

It does require faith. There is no God and you believe it, but there is no reason to back it up.
Atheists have the same problem as theists philosophically. Why there exists something rather than nothing is still a philosophical problem whether you are theist or atheist.
The theist believes that something, whatever that may be exists because God caused it to exist. Atheists have varying theories on why something exists rather than nothing, but they have very little agreement on what ‘that’ is. They just know it’s not God.
The existence of God can be philosophically argued to be true and though objections do exist, they have yet to be proven.[/quote]

2+2=4 requires faith.

SMH does a pretty good job of showing you where you come up short philosophically.

No “reason” to back it up is an opinion. It’s your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. [/quote]

2+2=4 requires faith? Uh no. That is deductive necessity. I need no faith to know that if I have 2 and add 2 more, I will have 4. No faith required. It’s a deductive necessity.

What do you have against me? You seem pretty pissed off at me for some reason? [/quote]

You just told me atheism required faith and it had no reason despite all the reasoning behind it. By that logic EVERYTHING requires faith.
[/quote]
That’s a poor analogy. I didn’t say ‘everything requires faith’. Believing in unprovable propositions do require faith. Belief that there is no God is an unprovable proposition.

I don’t see where I am being inconsistent or hypocritical. You somehow gleaned that I was accusing all atheists as being supportive of Dawkins and what he said in the video.
What I actually said in essence is that Dawkins is a prominent figure in the Atheist community and he said some pretty terrible and ridiculous stuff. Then I asked the questions, ‘who holds his point of view?’ And does this represent what New Atheists believe?
That’s it, I did no more…

What am I doing that is hypocritical?

64

[quote]pat wrote:

Well I found this enlightening…
Is this the real atheism? Has it shown it’s true face?

“Mock them, ridicule them, in public”

“… need to be ridiculed with contempt”

How many atheists believe Richard Dawkins? We should be mocked and ridiculed for our beliefs? This isn’t non-belief, this is raw, pure hatred. I want to hear from atheists, do you practice what is preached?[/quote]

No I don’t practice this.

[quote]It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Christians, Christianity as a whole, etc.
Not by reading theology and dogma, but on the behavior of a few.[/quote]

It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Atheists, Atheists as a whole, etc. On the behavior of this guy.

*“Oh no, I’m not judging, I’m asking, asking asking! I even called him your preacher.”

Not judging. C’mon. Do better and give us a challenge at least. You’re making this too easy.

Why are you mocking and ridiculing non believers? Why are you not calling out people in your thread who call them fools? Why are you telling them to stay on meds?

If you can’t find the hypocrisy it’s because you have no desire to see it. Which seems to be the case lately when I point it out. So rock on.

65

In answering the post , I think we are back to the Christians perceiving the flack from not being a good Christian as being mockery . And I don’t think it is coming from Atheists

Take the issues of the world

Hobby Lobby Christians dictating health care options to employees

Gay Marriage Christians telling people that their Religion has no relevance

Christians killing Muslims http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

Let’s look at history
Salem Witch Trial
Crusades
That list could go forever

I do not think that if there is a god and if his name is Jesus , neither would condone the shit Christians do . I think the Christians are pissing and moaning about sleeping in the bed that they in fact made

66

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Well I found this enlightening…
Is this the real atheism? Has it shown it’s true face?

“Mock them, ridicule them, in public”

“… need to be ridiculed with contempt”

How many atheists believe Richard Dawkins? We should be mocked and ridiculed for our beliefs? This isn’t non-belief, this is raw, pure hatred. I want to hear from atheists, do you practice what is preached?[/quote]

No I don’t practice this.

[quote]It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Christians, Christianity as a whole, etc.
Not by reading theology and dogma, but on the behavior of a few.[/quote]

It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Atheists, Atheists as a whole, etc. On the behavior of this guy.

*“Oh no, I’m not judging, I’m asking, asking asking! I even called him your preacher.”

Not judging. C’mon. Do better and give us a challenge at least. You’re making this too easy.

Why are you mocking and ridiculing non believers? Why are you not calling out people in your thread who call them fools? Why are you telling them to stay on meds?

If you can’t find the hypocrisy it’s because you have no desire to see it. Which seems to be the case lately when I point it out. So rock on.
[/quote]

Oh I see, you’re trying to expose me for who I really am… Whatever floats your boat. Expose me all you want. Show the world who I really am. Like it matters, I am not running for office.

67

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In answering the post , I think we are back to the Christians perceiving the flack from not being a good Christian as being mockery . And I don’t think it is coming from Atheists

Take the issues of the world

Hobby Lobby Christians dictating health care options to employees

Gay Marriage Christians telling people that their Religion has no relevance

Christians killing Muslims http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

Let’s look at history
Salem Witch Trial
Crusades
That list could go forever

I do not think that if there is a god and if his name is Jesus , neither would condone the shit Christians do . I think the Christians are pissing and moaning about sleeping in the bed that they in fact made

[/quote]

I think looking at history would do you a lot of good.

68

I’m not an atheist, more of an agnostic - I look at the incomprehensible vastness of the universe and it’s layer upon layer of complexity and other galaxies containing worlds and environments that I cant even begin to comprehend, and one can only wonder how it all began. Maybe “GOD” or some “intelligence” created the laws of physics and set it all into motion? I don’t know.

But what I DO know is that physics and science and evidence produced by the scientific method are the closest thing to “facts” that we have. And there is nothing in the world that will ever convince me that some guy born on earth 2000 years ago to a married woman who claimed to be a virgin and later got crucified for causing problems with the Romans has ANYTHING to do with the UNIVERSE. Just because it is written in some book that’s been added to, edited, translated and used as fact - it was written by people who believed the earth was flat!

LOL I mean, earth is just one tiny planet orbiting one tiny star in one tiny galaxy in a massive universe that’s over 13 billion years old… What makes your little book so much more special than the Japanese legend that the islands were created with drops from Izanagi’s spear? Or the Hindu religion? Brama and Vishnu are older than Jesus… Give me one shred of EVIDENCE that compels me to believe YOUR little fairy tale over any of the other THOUSANDS of fairy tales made up thousands of years ago by ignorant sheep herders who had no understanding of modern science?

How could ANYONE with an adult rational mind believe that? You might as well tell me you believe in Santa Clause.

I have enough tact to not be rude to people at parties and I think that everyone’s beliefs should be their own. But when Christians try to start LEGISLATING their little fairy tale, that’s when I have a problem. You don’t see Muslims trying to outlaw pork. You don’t see Hindus trying to outlaw beef. Why haven’t Christians tried to outlaw shrimp when it’s also mentioned in the Bible, but instead attack Homosexuals? Why can’t Christians just believe what they want to believe and accept the fact that other people might see it differently? Why do they need special legislation?

The hypocrisy is laughable and I have a very hard time respecting people with little minds that believe in fairy tales and who try and shove their bullshit down my throat with absolutely NO compelling argument. Just “faith”. I’m sorry, but I’m not just going to “take your word for it”.

69

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Well I found this enlightening…
Is this the real atheism? Has it shown it’s true face?

“Mock them, ridicule them, in public”

“… need to be ridiculed with contempt”

How many atheists believe Richard Dawkins? We should be mocked and ridiculed for our beliefs? This isn’t non-belief, this is raw, pure hatred. I want to hear from atheists, do you practice what is preached?[/quote]

No I don’t practice this.

[quote]It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Christians, Christianity as a whole, etc.
Not by reading theology and dogma, but on the behavior of a few.[/quote]

It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Atheists, Atheists as a whole, etc. On the behavior of this guy.

*“Oh no, I’m not judging, I’m asking, asking asking! I even called him your preacher.”

Not judging. C’mon. Do better and give us a challenge at least. You’re making this too easy.

Why are you mocking and ridiculing non believers? Why are you not calling out people in your thread who call them fools? Why are you telling them to stay on meds?

If you can’t find the hypocrisy it’s because you have no desire to see it. Which seems to be the case lately when I point it out. So rock on.
[/quote]

Oh I see, you’re trying to expose me for who I really am… Whatever floats your boat. Expose me all you want. Show the world who I really am. Like it matters, I am not running for office.[/quote]

What are you talking about? Either respond to what I said or don’t post. Don’t make up stuff like I’m trying to expose you. Don’t hand wave and deflect things. You’re far smarter and better than that Pat.

I’m not TRYING to do anything. I’m pointing out that you don’t seem to be staying consistent. I don’t know who you really are or even what that means. It’s a pointless bullshit internet discussion. We’ve had a million of them before. I don’t get on here to set out and do something or have some type of agenda. I discuss what I feel about topics brought up. Plain and simple. Playing the victim isn’t necessary here. No one is doing anything you’re alleging.

70

[quote]pat wrote:
I do not believe this is true. First, theists have fulfilled the burden of proof with many logical arguments for the existence of God.
Second, atheists have just as much burden to prove why anything exists, rather than nothing.
This burden of proof shift is false. Removing God from the equation doesn’t make the equation disappear.[/quote]

Someone has a short memory.
Guess two threads wasn’t enough

72

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Well I found this enlightening…
Is this the real atheism? Has it shown it’s true face?

“Mock them, ridicule them, in public”

“… need to be ridiculed with contempt”

How many atheists believe Richard Dawkins? We should be mocked and ridiculed for our beliefs? This isn’t non-belief, this is raw, pure hatred. I want to hear from atheists, do you practice what is preached?[/quote]

No I don’t practice this.

[quote]It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Christians, Christianity as a whole, etc.
Not by reading theology and dogma, but on the behavior of a few.[/quote]

It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Atheists, Atheists as a whole, etc. On the behavior of this guy.

*“Oh no, I’m not judging, I’m asking, asking asking! I even called him your preacher.”

Not judging. C’mon. Do better and give us a challenge at least. You’re making this too easy.

Why are you mocking and ridiculing non believers? Why are you not calling out people in your thread who call them fools? Why are you telling them to stay on meds?

If you can’t find the hypocrisy it’s because you have no desire to see it. Which seems to be the case lately when I point it out. So rock on.
[/quote]

Oh I see, you’re trying to expose me for who I really am… Whatever floats your boat. Expose me all you want. Show the world who I really am. Like it matters, I am not running for office.[/quote]

What are you talking about? Either respond to what I said or don’t post. Don’t make up stuff like I’m trying to expose you. Don’t hand wave and deflect things. You’re far smarter and better than that Pat.

I’m not TRYING to do anything. I’m pointing out that you don’t seem to be staying consistent. I don’t know who you really are or even what that means. It’s a pointless bullshit internet discussion. We’ve had a million of them before. I don’t get on here to set out and do something or have some type of agenda. I discuss what I feel about topics brought up. Plain and simple. Playing the victim isn’t necessary here. No one is doing anything you’re alleging. [/quote]

You’re trying to show what a hypocrite I am, how inconsistent I am are you not? Isn’t that what you just said, or did I misread it?

I didn’t allege anybody was doing anything.

If it’s such a pointless discussion then why are you participating? That’s contradictory. For such a pointless discussion, you sure have a lot to say about it. Well it actually seems you have more to say about me, than the topic. And if you read my responses, I don’t think you can reasonably say I am accusing anyone of anything, except you. I am accusing you of ad hominem attacks without justification.

It appears to me, you are interested in pointing out what I hypocrite I am. Maybe I am too self absorbed, but you said it several times. You pointed out how contradictory I am, what a hypocrite I am, did you not?
So go on tell everybody what a hypocrite I am. Start a thread on ‘pat the Hypocrite’.

73

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I do not believe this is true. First, theists have fulfilled the burden of proof with many logical arguments for the existence of God.
Second, atheists have just as much burden to prove why anything exists, rather than nothing.
This burden of proof shift is false. Removing God from the equation doesn’t make the equation disappear.[/quote]

Someone has a short memory.
Guess two threads wasn’t enough

Okay, so the topic was discussed, like a thousand times. There’s probably closer to 30 threads on the existence of God. Did somebody prove God doesn’t exist? If so I missed it.

74

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In answering the post , I think we are back to the Christians perceiving the flack from not being a good Christian as being mockery . And I don’t think it is coming from Atheists

Take the issues of the world

Hobby Lobby Christians dictating health care options to employees

Gay Marriage Christians telling people that their Religion has no relevance

Christians killing Muslims http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

Let’s look at history
Salem Witch Trial
Crusades
That list could go forever

I do not think that if there is a god and if his name is Jesus , neither would condone the shit Christians do . I think the Christians are pissing and moaning about sleeping in the bed that they in fact made

[/quote]

I think looking at history would do you a lot of good.[/quote]

I like to think of my life as a learning experience :slight_smile:

75

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
smh fun fact…what was the first liquid and food consumed on the moon?[/quote]

Yes, I know.

I have always found great irony in this.

Space, which gives us some of the simplest and best reasons to conclude that the Genesis account of creation is fiction, playing host–get it?–to the Sacrament of Communion.[/quote]

It’s allegorical, not a literal account. There are after all 2 creation stories in Genesis. [/quote]

This is a subject of intense disagreement within Christianity itself. And I side with the literalists, insofar as they argue that once the first chapters are called allegory, the rest cannot be defended against the very same criticism: “Well, this is just an allegory invented by people who lived long ago.” Jesus’ resurrection, for example. Or that he was the son of God at all.

That is, of course, a fight for another thread.

76

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Well I found this enlightening…
Is this the real atheism? Has it shown it’s true face?

“Mock them, ridicule them, in public”

“… need to be ridiculed with contempt”

How many atheists believe Richard Dawkins? We should be mocked and ridiculed for our beliefs? This isn’t non-belief, this is raw, pure hatred. I want to hear from atheists, do you practice what is preached?[/quote]

No I don’t practice this.

[quote]It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Christians, Christianity as a whole, etc.
Not by reading theology and dogma, but on the behavior of a few.[/quote]

It seems to me, and ever more apparent that you are readily passing judgement on Atheists, Atheists as a whole, etc. On the behavior of this guy.

*“Oh no, I’m not judging, I’m asking, asking asking! I even called him your preacher.”

Not judging. C’mon. Do better and give us a challenge at least. You’re making this too easy.

Why are you mocking and ridiculing non believers? Why are you not calling out people in your thread who call them fools? Why are you telling them to stay on meds?

If you can’t find the hypocrisy it’s because you have no desire to see it. Which seems to be the case lately when I point it out. So rock on.
[/quote]

Oh I see, you’re trying to expose me for who I really am… Whatever floats your boat. Expose me all you want. Show the world who I really am. Like it matters, I am not running for office.[/quote]

What are you talking about? Either respond to what I said or don’t post. Don’t make up stuff like I’m trying to expose you. Don’t hand wave and deflect things. You’re far smarter and better than that Pat.

I’m not TRYING to do anything. I’m pointing out that you don’t seem to be staying consistent. I don’t know who you really are or even what that means. It’s a pointless bullshit internet discussion. We’ve had a million of them before. I don’t get on here to set out and do something or have some type of agenda. I discuss what I feel about topics brought up. Plain and simple. Playing the victim isn’t necessary here. No one is doing anything you’re alleging. [/quote]

You’re trying to show what a hypocrite I am, how inconsistent I am are you not? Isn’t that what you just said, or did I misread it?

I didn’t allege anybody was doing anything.

If it’s such a pointless discussion then why are you participating? That’s contradictory. For such a pointless discussion, you sure have a lot to say about it. Well it actually seems you have more to say about me, than the topic. And if you read my responses, I don’t think you can reasonably say I am accusing anyone of anything, except you. I am accusing you of ad hominem attacks without justification.

It appears to me, you are interested in pointing out what I hypocrite I am. Maybe I am too self absorbed, but you said it several times. You pointed out how contradictory I am, what a hypocrite I am, did you not?
So go on tell everybody what a hypocrite I am. Start a thread on ‘pat the Hypocrite’.[/quote]

C’mon. I was saying these discussions aren’t as big a deal as you’re making them. You’re getting really defensive for no reason. Yes, I demonstrably showed hypocrisy. I showed this with words.

Ad hominem attacks in a thread where you used him? C’mon Pat, again you’re smarter and better than that. I pointed out the hypocrisy in your statement. That is not an ad hom attack. You began the ad hom attack and I have no desire to go there. Nor start a pat the hypocrite thread. I’m saying you’re being inconsistent and pointing out why I think that.

Take it easy Pat, you’re getting really worked up for no big deal. I don’t even dislike you, I just dislike the argument you’re currently making. I think you’re intelligent and we’re all hypocrites from time to time. Nothing worth exploding about.

77

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:
smh fun fact…what was the first liquid and food consumed on the moon?[/quote]

Yes, I know.

I have always found great irony in this.

Space, which gives us some of the simplest and best reasons to conclude that the Genesis account of creation is fiction…[/quote]

I think not. In fact several of those who have actually visited space feel the way I do. It’s true. You can look it up.[/quote]

Sure, but that doesn’t really mean much.

I was referring to the starlight problem, first and foremost. I know the answers to it, and I think they’re nonsense. Twists and turns and acrobacy to try to fit something that isn’t into something that is.

80

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I do not believe this is true. First, theists have fulfilled the burden of proof with many logical arguments for the existence of God.
Second, atheists have just as much burden to prove why anything exists, rather than nothing.
This burden of proof shift is false. Removing God from the equation doesn’t make the equation disappear.[/quote]

Someone has a short memory.
Guess two threads wasn’t enough
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...f_god_continued

[/quote]

Okay, so the topic was discussed, like a thousand times. There’s probably closer to 30 threads on the existence of God. Did somebody prove God doesn’t exist? If so I missed it. [/quote]

No, it’s that you had half the PWI forum explain to you the inconsistency (that word again) of your logic, and yet you’re trumpeting about the strength of your arguments again. Thanks, but no thanks.