Atheism-o-Phobia

Why does it exists?

Why do many people view atheists as morally inferior?

Why is it nearly impossible to join higher political ranks if one is openly atheist?

Discuss please.

My reasons:

  1. Many people think that atheists don’t have a reason to do good things or be moral or that their morality is completely relativistic.

  2. I believe that many people feel that God is the only reason to be moral and just and if you take that away, then a person just does what they want and can get away with without a moral compass.

  3. I feel this goes with the stigma against atheism.

Closing thoughts:
Atheism has been around for a very long time in one form or another. Perhaps as much as a few thousand years. In the past, it would have been fool-hardy to admit to atheist views, but now even with the stigma, there is much greater acceptance and you don’t have to worry about the state burning you at the cross for declaring yourself as an atheist. As far as I’m concerned, religious opinions are welcomed too. I’m not saying I think everyone should be atheist or not, just that their should be more tolerance on both sides of the fence as both secular and religious people have made great contributions towards society (as well as atrocities… people are people).

And a YouTube video providing food for thought:

One thing I like about the video , is that Altruism is a good thing .

What do you call some one that believes in God but not in Religion ?

I dont like God because he made Man.

That was either sloppy craftsmanship or a prank.

Either way, I do not appreciate His humor.

[quote]orion wrote:
I dont like God because he made Man.

That was either sloppy craftsmanship or a prank.

Either way, I do not appreciate His humor.

[/quote]

Wow… a tad misanthropic there… don’t ya think…? lol

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Why does it exists?
[/quote]

Because ya’ll started too much shit and we don’t trust the dogmas of Atheism anymore.

We don’t, we just know that when you guys produce people like Stalin and basically every Russian Czar that existed ya’ll did some fucked up shit.

Because of the crazy shit that comes from Atheist leaders, Russian Czars, Castro, Hitler, &c.

That is not true, if you guys would have a decent PR machine, even though I think Atheism is ridiculous you could see normal people, being atheist even, have a reason to be moral. Cooperation needs to have some kind of moral level, even one of the most known Atheists, Ayn Rand held Natural Law (which she learned from St. Augustine & St. Aquinas) as to be the Proper form of morals. However most religions hold Natural Law as a natural pillar to their religion so it can be conveyed that they would likely hold some kind of high morals. However Atheism does not have a moral pillar, it is just the direct schism against God.

That is dumb, unless of course they have never taken a philosophy or ethics class, because St. Augustine said in better terms of course, that the only way for a man to be moral is if he does good for goodness’ sake. Which can theologically be turned into doing good for God’s sake, but we’ll cut the logic short on this one since it is about atheists.

Yes, and your own leaders have created it to be so, I’m not talking about the philosophers those guys are crazy as bat shit anyway, I’m talking about your leaders of the not so free world. I listed them before but here they are, Russain Czars (and most other czars), Hitler, Castro, Castro’s brother, &c.

Why should we have tolerance for Atheism in a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, &c. community without some kind of prelude that ya’ll will behave accordingly? In my small little community (okay kidding we have 4 million people here) if you are not Catholic you’ll have a hard time doing anything around here, and guess what that is fine. I do not have to cater to your beliefs just so we can have diversity in public office.

—“Because ya’ll started too much shit and we don’t trust the dogmas of Atheism anymore.”

Continue please, unless you meant what you mentioned after you said this.

—“Because of the crazy shit that comes from Atheist leaders, Russian Czars, Castro, Hitler, &c.”

For starters, most of the Czars and Hitler weren’t atheist. In fact, atheists were on Hitler’s list of people to eventually exterminate in his final solution, they just weren’t high priority like Jews, Catholics and gays. There have also been very terrible leaders who were believed in God and were religious. People are people the way I look at it.

—“That is not true, if you guys would have a decent PR machine, even though I think Atheism is ridiculous you could see normal people, being atheist even, have a reason to be moral. Cooperation needs to have some kind of moral level, even one of the most known Atheists, Ayn Rand held Natural Law (which she learned from St. Augustine & St. Aquinas) as to be the Proper form of morals. However most religions hold Natural Law as a natural pillar to their religion so it can be conveyed that they would likely hold some kind of high morals. However Atheism does not have a moral pillar, it is just the direct schism against God.”

Agreed, atheists don’t have a very good PR machine. And I also agree that atheism is defined by not believing in god. There are several different ‘brands’ of atheism. Perhaps they need to find ways to support each other. However, I do feel that atheism is becoming more and more acceptable, depending on the region and that a major atheist politician in the next 30 or so years is not out of the question.

—“Why should we have tolerance for Atheism in a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, &c. community without some kind of prelude that ya’ll will behave accordingly? In my small little community (okay kidding we have 4 million people here) if you are not Catholic you’ll have a hard time doing anything around here, and guess what that is fine. I do not have to cater to your beliefs just so we can have diversity in public office.”

Behave accordingly… I’m guessing you assume that atheists won’t behave accordingly… If so, that goes back to the question of why many people think atheists are morally inferior which you said you don’t think they do, but here it looks like you are saying they are morally inferior. Which is it… or did I misunderstand something.
And you don’t have to necessarily cater to specific beliefs, only the politics and history of the candidate. If I were going to run for an office, I would never say I’m atheist because of this kind of belief and I feel that there probably are politicians currently in office who are ‘closet atheists’ much like a politician is unlikely to come out of the closet if they’re a homosexual.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Discuss please.
[/quote]

Because many atheists are outspokenly hostile to religious people.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

  1. Many people think that atheists don’t have a reason to do good things or be moral or that their morality is completely relativistic.
    [/quote]

No I think people simply believe you might have a different sense of morality. Hence you are aiming for a different goal than they are.

In the political arena it is important to know the person you elected has the same “ending goal” as you do. To the average Joe the actual policies are less important. There are many paths to nirvana.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
If so, that goes back to the question of why many people think atheists are morally inferior
[/quote]

Because many disagree morally with Christians. If you are an atheist and have extremely similar morals to a religious person they aren’t likely to look down on you.

On the other hand if you think abortion is cool and churches should be taxed and limited in what they can do/say then they are likely to look down on you.

“Because many atheists are outspokenly hostile to religious people.”

I agree and it is unfortunate, however there many religious people who are openly hostile to atheists, especially in the South where I live. I’ve gotten to the point where I tell people I believe but I stopped going to church because of how much it can lower some people’s opinions of a person. There have been people who I got along with great until the subject came up they found out I was atheist, then they would just cold shoulder me if they saw me again. This is without any sort of discussion about religion, just them knowing I was atheist. Some people also act scared of me if they find out I’m atheist. Personally, if someone puts their faith in religion, that’s great good for them. Whatever floats your boat, it’s just not a personal choice I can make and in the same way I respect them for their flavor of faith, I would like the same respect for mine.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I agree and it is unfortunate, however there many religious people who are openly hostile to atheists, especially in the South where I live.
[/quote]

Yes because both groups stereotype. The term atheist has very negative connotations for many religious people.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
There have been people who I got along with great until the subject came up they found out I was atheist, then they would just cold shoulder me if they saw me again.
[/quote]

I simply avoid the word atheist and nobody has a problem. I will say that “I’m more of a down to earth guy. Religion isn’t very important to me”. Apart from not believing in God though I’m pretty much the perfect Catholic. Probably why I never catch any flak.

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
If so, that goes back to the question of why many people think atheists are morally inferior
[/quote]

Because many disagree morally with Christians. If you are an atheist and have extremely similar morals to a religious person they aren’t likely to look down on you.

On the other hand if you think abortion is cool and churches should be taxed and limited in what they can do/say then they are likely to look down on you.[/quote]

I actually do have morals very similar to Christian ones and I actually refer to the bible for life advice (I love proverbs and portions of the new testament for that one) and am morally conservative by many standards (don’t believe in abortion except for the most extreme of circumstances, I take issue with the current divorce rate, etc), but if I drop the ‘A-bomb’ many people seem to forget who I am and what past experiences taught them about me and act completely different towards me. I have known people who didn’t think any less of me for it too, but I’d just rather not let people know anymore for the most part unless I know and trust them very well. There’s a lot of prejudice in the South and often-times it’s just better keep mum about certain things.

“I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ” - Mahatma Gandhi

I’m an atheist, and this pretty much sums up my feelings towards “Christianity”. The bible was written in fragments, sometimes separated by hundreds of years, based on the hearsay of people largely illiterate. The “word of God” is for all intents and purposes a transcribed version of “the telephone game”, and yet people base their lives on it. If Jesus himself were able to read it (unlikely, as some of it was completed hundreds of years after his death), I’m confident he’d say “damn, somebody fucked up here!”.

Yet, the fundamentals of the bible (the ten commandments) are excellent guidelines to live your life by. I wish more Christians would focus on these, rather than obscure passages in Leviticus condemning homosexuals (the same book, as I recall, condemns wearing blends of wool and cotton, so you staunch gay-haters better watch what shirts you buy!)

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

Why does it exists?

Why do many people view atheists as morally inferior?[/quote]

Well, you don’t have it quite right - thinking atheists are “morally inferior” isn’t a phobia of atheists - dislike or disdain or lack of respect is not the equivalent of fear.

If you spend extended time with an atheist really drilling down into their core belief (irony alert), you learn that, usually, this person is not someone you would want shaping ideas or leading public policy.

At the end of it, atheists’ worldview is that Man is the End (the only End) unto himself, and that he serves nothing higher than himself (and his terrestrial desires and wants and appetites) - wisdom has taught that you allow this concept to be legitimately represented in politics at your civilization’s peril.

"If you spend extended time with an atheist really drilling down into their core belief (irony alert), you learn that, usually, this person is not someone you would want shaping ideas or leading public policy.

At the end of it, atheists’ worldview is that Man is the End (the only End) unto himself, and that he serves nothing higher than himself (and his terrestrial desires and wants and appetites) - wisdom has taught that you allow this concept to be legitimately represented in politics at your civilization’s peril."

I’m sorry, you’re statement just looks a little vague to me and I’m having trouble understanding what it is exactly that you’re saying. I think I see what you’re saying in general but it begs certain answers to questions like which wisdom for instance? Why is there irony in an atheist having a core belief? Which atheist serve nothing higher than their selves and where did you gather this from? Why is it at a civilization’s peril for an atheist leader to be represented in politics?

Many atheist serve the common good and will of humanity as a whole and place their faith in the continued betterment of our species through responsible thought and decision making. As far as that goes, it really depends on that particular atheist’s beliefs and what they place faith in (I believe we all place faith something/someone whether you’re atheist or religious). As far as the type of atheist you described (‘serves nothing higher than himself’), this is often described as a nihilistic atheist. As far as people with that particular perspective on life and existence, I completely agree with your viewpoint that they shouldn’t be represented in politics as you put it.

Not all atheists are nihilistic hedonistic people (yes, I know some are)

Your input is appreciated, I just wish you could be more specific by providing examples, maybe some clear cause and effect, case examples, or whatever else works for you. I hope I came off as more thought provoking then adverserial.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
What do you call some one that believes in God but not in Religion ?[/quote]
Agnostic.

I’m an athiest, and very morally sound. I don’t believe in god, but I believe in the golden rule.

It is hardly looked badly upon being an atheist in Denmark, it’s the other way around here. If once says that you really believe in a god, say the christian god, most people (of youngish age) will look weird at you.

In Denmark the population is(as of 2005) 43-80% atheist/agnostic. Compare that to USA’s 3-9%…

Edit: Forgot source: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

I think being anything but agnostic is a little presumptuous. NObody knows anything and culturally instilled faith is whatev.

kthxl8rz

Yep, the world is hard on us.

What do you want? It’s a minority view. It’s historically unnatural. It’s mildly subversive. People are not as open-minded as they like to think they are. Resignation’s my first instinct, but it isn’t right, and I’m trying (in my weenie internet way) to fight that instinct.

Atheism is what happens when you think about the notion of a God, and take it seriously, and realize what it would imply, and worry at it like a terrier until it gives way. And then – the hard part – you actually have to stand by that sense of incredulity, and not imagine your doubt away. And you have to profess it publicly to a world that thinks you’re either monstrous or weak. I’m not ready to do that, but maybe someday I will be. I know someone who has done it in a situation where it’s VERY hard to be openly atheist. There’s courage in that.

The whole Stalin thing is ludicrous, as I hope everyone realizes. (You do know the Czars were Russian Orthodox, don’t you? And Hitler was a Christian.) Atheists are not as a class inclined to become or sympathize with mass murderers. And even if they were – would that have any bearing on whether there is or is not a God? Suppose, for the sake of argument, that we’re all thoroughly horrible people. Would that put a God in heaven? I may be as lousy as can be, but, you know, e puor si muove.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]carbiduis wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
What do you call some one that believes in God but not in Religion ?[/quote]
Agnostic.

I’m an athiest, and very morally sound. I don’t believe in god, but I believe in the golden rule.[/quote]

You obviously don’t understand the meaning of the word agnostic.[/quote]
thats all you got?