[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Gymnastics.[/quote]
I beg to differ. They are great for their sport and their sport only. There are more to being a athlete than agility and body strength. Gymnastic athletes have very short carerrs often based on body growth and development. Reason some of the best gymnasts are 16 years old. I’m sure their aerobic systems are terrible maybe alright for the ones’ who do floor routine.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I’d say that strongman produces the most versatile athletes with regards to skills/physical attributes that translate well to everyday life (but not other sports).
Can’t disagree with the above points on gymnasts, but I think it’s time we gave crossfit a little bit of respect. It’s due some, even if you only think a little. In terms of balance and coordination, the gymnasts have got them beat, but I think crossfitters win at strength and endurance.[/quote]
Crossfitters have more strength and endurance than a gymnast? I laugh.
[/quote]
If you made a gymnast run a marathon against a crossfitter, do you really think the gymnast would win?[/quote]
What makes you think a Crossfag is capable of completing a marathon? Besides, the ability to run a marathon is only one measure of stamina and endurance. How about big-wave surfers? They can hold their breaths for four or five minutes. That is a measurement of endurance as well. Know any Crossfags who can do that?
[quote]Fuzzyapple.Train wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Gymnastics.[/quote]
I beg to differ. They are great for their sport and their sport only. There are more to being a athlete than agility and body strength. Gymnastic athletes have very short carerrs often based on body growth and development. Reason some of the best gymnasts are 16 years old. I’m sure their aerobic systems are terrible maybe alright for the ones’ who do floor routine.
[/quote]
The females only last until about 18. The men last much longer.
The reason none of them last for a really long time has a lot to do with injuries. When gymnasts injure themselves they don’t strain shit or tear ligaments, although this DOES happen. The big injuries they suffer are stress fractures and other types of broken bones. Eating shit off the vault or the uneven bars can seriously fuck you up.
And just out of curiosity, what other major aspect of being athletic is there other than strength and agility? Endurance has been mentioned and while their endurance probably isn’t great, I doubt they run a mile or two and then keel over and puke all over themselves.
listen, gymnasts are in good shape and all but are in no way the most athletic dudes out there. good at their chosen activity? Sure, the most impressive and well-rounded athlete? nope.
most well rounded athlete will be top level Decathletes. Run, Jump, Throw, Strength, Endurance… they do it all. Obviously not the best in the world at any of those things but really good at them all is the definition of “well-rounded.”
If you weren’t going to go with one of them it would be a top level NFL or NBA guy (AP/LeBron maybe?)
This whole debate is subjective (obvi) but the best athletes in the world arent lining up to do cartwheels and summersaults while wearing a unitard.
also, the hate on crossfit athletes (guys who compete at the CF Games) is laughable. Those dudes would wipe the floor with almost anyone here when it comes to physique and lifting.
Rich Fronning is a friggin beast. That dude is an insane athlete. The whole CF Hate this is so old.
[quote]roybot wrote:
Sumo wrestlers are impressively well-rounded. [/quote]
Nice one. However, they are better athletes than most people think. There are 600 professional sumo wrestlers…but only the top 100 make more than room and board for a living. It is very competitive. Most sumos are very powerful. They lift weights now. Their technique/sparring trainings go for hours. Out of the blocks, their athleticism is similar to a football lineman.
Sure, they will never run the 100 in 11 seconds… or complete a marathon. But they would smash the average T-Nation reader into the floor or throw them over their shoulder. I did sumo for a few years, thus my name. I represented my country in international competition and lived in Japan and studied the sport. They are no clowns. Underneath all that fat is more muscle than most men will ever have.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]Trocchi wrote:
[quote]mbdix wrote:
[quote]Trocchi wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Not to insult rugby players by any means.
Rugby is to football, as distance runners are to sprinters. I dont think it’s quite the gap difference since rugby players are beasts, but it’s a fair comparison.
What does the average top flight rugby player make $$ ? The NFL is such a big business now, i think it’s only increased the lengths guys go to get into the game.[/quote]
Not much! But salaries are heavily regulated to keep teams on a roughly even keel. You cant pay players millions of $$ a year because the national and international rugby boards don’t allow it, and its not really in the culture.
A top rugby player was offered a 3 million $ a year for a 4 year deal as a kicker for the Miami Dolphins in 2005 but turned it down lol.[/quote]
Right. There have been Rugby players transfer over to the NFL. They have all been punters[/quote]
Is this sarcasm? And the post was to exemplify the salary culture in world rugby… not the athletic differences between the sports.
[/quote]
I guess so. Just that they have all been punters. I undersatnd your point and not trying to bash rugby. I just don’t think they are on the same level as NFL athletes. You probably know more about Rugby than I do. What position did the players play who came over to the NFL in Rugby? And, what is that positions responsibilty in Rugby?
My bad. I read over your last comment quickly, and poorly. I’ll shut up now[/quote]
The key thing about rugby players is the endurance. Games last 80 minutes. No heading back to the bench and getting on the oxygen. Players play offense and defense. Everybody gets to run the ball. Everybody gets to tackle. Then there is rucking, mauling, scrumming, lineouts… you need a wider variety of athletic skills. However, football players are generally faster, and more powerful. Plays only last a few seconds in football. It is a fast twitch sport. I played rugby for nearly 30 years. I did a lot of weights, sprinting etc but the main athletic requirement was aerobic fitness. Rugby player=good all rounder. The top football receivers and cornerbacks would waste a rugby player in a 40m sprint. But over an 80 minute game… few football players would be able to last. The biggest players in rugby don’t go over 260 pounds, with about 230 being average.
[quote]deadgame wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Olympic weight lifters. They exhibit agility, speed and power in the most awkward positions. They are some of the fastest runners too.[/quote]
I love when people say this, it makes me laugh. All because of an incomplete study done some 40 years ago. Hang out at a Division I football or track practice, and you’d probably change your opinion. [/quote]
I don’t know of the study you speak of but they are certainly fast for their weight. Shane Hammon could run a 4.6 40 yard dash at 350 lbs. (from what I read) and I know that most O lifters have awesome vertical leaps. The track athletes and football players you speak of also train some of the O lifts so it’s not like they are two complete different athletes in terms of quickness.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I’d say that strongman produces the most versatile athletes with regards to skills/physical attributes that translate well to everyday life (but not other sports).
Can’t disagree with the above points on gymnasts, but I think it’s time we gave crossfit a little bit of respect. It’s due some, even if you only think a little. In terms of balance and coordination, the gymnasts have got them beat, but I think crossfitters win at strength and endurance.[/quote]
Crossfitters have more strength and endurance than a gymnast? I laugh.
[/quote]
Endurance? Probably, but strength? No way… A gymnast would have to be much stronger than a crossfitter lb for lb.
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I’d say that strongman produces the most versatile athletes with regards to skills/physical attributes that translate well to everyday life (but not other sports).
Can’t disagree with the above points on gymnasts, but I think it’s time we gave crossfit a little bit of respect. It’s due some, even if you only think a little. In terms of balance and coordination, the gymnasts have got them beat, but I think crossfitters win at strength and endurance.[/quote]
Crossfitters have more strength and endurance than a gymnast? I laugh.
[/quote]
Endurance? Probably, but strength? No way… A gymnast would have to be much stronger than a crossfitter lb for lb.[/quote]
Careful with that assertion… Did we all forget all of a sudden that gymnastics is a collection of events and high-level gymnasts tend to train for one or only a few events specifically? While someone whose focus is the rings may have greater upper body strength, how about lower body? Think a gymnast whose specialty is the balance beam would be stronger? Specialization for events also has the nasty side effect of not training muscle groups evenly. Doesn’t sound like the most balanced athlete to me.
You know, I don’t follow crossfit nor particularly care for it, but I find all this hate mystifying. It’s ironic because most often I hear something along the lines of “those smug bastards think they’re such hot shit” cited as the reason for the hate. Because bodybuilders and powerlifters NEVER, EVER, EVER have elitist attitudes. Ever. If that’s why you hate crossfit, you need to grow the fuck up because that’s a pretty childish reason. Personally, I’m just happy they have a healthy enough hobby and aren’t going to be some fatass sitting in front of the TV all day, wasting public money on their quadruple-bypass surgeries.
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
Sumo wrestlers are impressively well-rounded. [/quote]
Nice one. However, they are better athletes than most people think. There are 600 professional sumo wrestlers…but only the top 100 make more than room and board for a living. It is very competitive. Most sumos are very powerful. They lift weights now. Their technique/sparring trainings go for hours. Out of the blocks, their athleticism is similar to a football lineman.
Sure, they will never run the 100 in 11 seconds… or complete a marathon. But they would smash the average T-Nation reader into the floor or throw them over their shoulder. I did sumo for a few years, thus my name. I represented my country in international competition and lived in Japan and studied the sport. They are no clowns. Underneath all that fat is more muscle than most men will ever have. [/quote]
Yeah, I know a little about sumo training and diet and the preconceptions that come with the sport. I was just riffing on the thread title…
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Shane Hammon could run a 4.6 40 yard dash at 350 lbs.[/quote]
No he couldnt.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Shane Hammon could run a 4.6 40 yard dash at 350 lbs.[/quote]
No he couldnt.[/quote]
Yea got to go with Greg on this one, calling Bullshit.
Maybe a 4.6 20 yd
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I’d say that strongman produces the most versatile athletes with regards to skills/physical attributes that translate well to everyday life (but not other sports).
Can’t disagree with the above points on gymnasts, but I think it’s time we gave crossfit a little bit of respect. It’s due some, even if you only think a little. In terms of balance and coordination, the gymnasts have got them beat, but I think crossfitters win at strength and endurance.[/quote]
Crossfitters have more strength and endurance than a gymnast? I laugh.
[/quote]
Endurance? Probably, but strength? No way… A gymnast would have to be much stronger than a crossfitter lb for lb.[/quote]
Careful with that assertion… Did we all forget all of a sudden that gymnastics is a collection of events and high-level gymnasts tend to train for one or only a few events specifically? While someone whose focus is the rings may have greater upper body strength, how about lower body? Think a gymnast whose specialty is the balance beam would be stronger? Specialization for events also has the nasty side effect of not training muscle groups evenly. Doesn’t sound like the most balanced athlete to me.
[/quote]
Gymnasts have crazy explosive strength in their legs. They all have a foundation of conditioning and competency in all events before they begin to specialize. Too often people focus too closely on the upper body aspects and ignore landings/ take-offs in tumbling and the run-ups in vaulting events - both of which demonstrate a high level of leg power.
In vaulting events, they need maximum running power for the approach and take off. It’s a skill element that needs as much practise as the other ccmponents of training.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Shane Hammon could run a 4.6 40 yard dash at 350 lbs.[/quote]
No he couldnt.[/quote]
Yea got to go with Greg on this one, calling Bullshit.
Maybe a 4.6 20 yd[/quote]
^^lol seriously,
A legit electronic timed 4.6 40yd dash is very fast. No way a 5’9 350lb dude is running that, GTFO.
I seriously doubt the dunking with no steps claim either (googled him) maybe the backflip thing but calling BS on the 4.6 and a flat footed dunk.
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I’d say that strongman produces the most versatile athletes with regards to skills/physical attributes that translate well to everyday life (but not other sports).
Can’t disagree with the above points on gymnasts, but I think it’s time we gave crossfit a little bit of respect. It’s due some, even if you only think a little. In terms of balance and coordination, the gymnasts have got them beat, but I think crossfitters win at strength and endurance.[/quote]
Crossfitters have more strength and endurance than a gymnast? I laugh.
[/quote]
Endurance? Probably, but strength? No way… A gymnast would have to be much stronger than a crossfitter lb for lb.[/quote]
Careful with that assertion… Did we all forget all of a sudden that gymnastics is a collection of events and high-level gymnasts tend to train for one or only a few events specifically? While someone whose focus is the rings may have greater upper body strength, how about lower body? Think a gymnast whose specialty is the balance beam would be stronger? Specialization for events also has the nasty side effect of not training muscle groups evenly. Doesn’t sound like the most balanced athlete to me.
[/quote]
Gymnasts have crazy explosive strength in their legs. They all have a foundation of conditioning and competency in all events before they begin to specialize. Too often people focus too closely on the upper body aspects and ignore landings/ take-offs in tumbling and the run-ups in vaulting events - both of which demonstrate a high level of leg power.
In vaulting events, they need maximum running power for the approach and take off. It’s a skill element that needs as much practise as the other ccmponents of training.[/quote]
Exactly. To say that they specialize in one area and lag behind in the others is sort of like saying a guy who can bench 650 lbs lags behind the rest of the major lifts because he can only snatch 350, clean 400, squat 450 and deadlift 500.
I think the stigma with gymnasts is that a lot of people look at these kind of faggy guys who are all about 5’5" or so and just refuse to believe that the best athletes aren’t these hulking behemoths and aren’t participating in the most popular sports. The fact that MOST of the best athletes in this country go on to play other sports like football or basketball tells me that those sports aren’t as challenging as gymnastics. The fact is that gymnastics is so tough and demanding that all but the absolute best athletes are weeded out at an early age and they go on to play other, less-demanding sports.
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
[quote]deadgame wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Olympic weight lifters. They exhibit agility, speed and power in the most awkward positions. They are some of the fastest runners too.[/quote]
I love when people say this, it makes me laugh. All because of an incomplete study done some 40 years ago. Hang out at a Division I football or track practice, and you’d probably change your opinion. [/quote]
I don’t know of the study you speak of but they are certainly fast for their weight. Shane Hammon could run a 4.6 40 yard dash at 350 lbs. (from what I read) and I know that most O lifters have awesome vertical leaps. The track athletes and football players you speak of also train some of the O lifts so it’s not like they are two complete different athletes in terms of quickness.[/quote]
The only way Shane covers 40yds in 4.6sec is if you shoved his big ass off a cliff.
You’ve now said that Oly lifters are “some of the fastest runners” and now most have “awesome” vertical leaps. What do you consider “awesome”? 30"? 35"? 40"?
Most (definitely not all) Collegiate FB programs will implement hang or power cleans, occasional light snatches (most don’t at all)…typically once a week in any given training cycle. In no way, shape or form does this resemble the training of an elite or even recreational Oly lifter. And the quickness they display is because of their parents, not becuase of the Oly lifts that they do.
Oly lifters are great at what they do, and some have great athletic ability. But they are no where near as well rounded as many other sports.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
I’d say that strongman produces the most versatile athletes with regards to skills/physical attributes that translate well to everyday life (but not other sports).
Can’t disagree with the above points on gymnasts, but I think it’s time we gave crossfit a little bit of respect. It’s due some, even if you only think a little. In terms of balance and coordination, the gymnasts have got them beat, but I think crossfitters win at strength and endurance.[/quote]
Crossfitters have more strength and endurance than a gymnast? I laugh.
[/quote]
Endurance? Probably, but strength? No way… A gymnast would have to be much stronger than a crossfitter lb for lb.[/quote]
Careful with that assertion… Did we all forget all of a sudden that gymnastics is a collection of events and high-level gymnasts tend to train for one or only a few events specifically? While someone whose focus is the rings may have greater upper body strength, how about lower body? Think a gymnast whose specialty is the balance beam would be stronger? Specialization for events also has the nasty side effect of not training muscle groups evenly. Doesn’t sound like the most balanced athlete to me.
[/quote]
Gymnasts have crazy explosive strength in their legs. They all have a foundation of conditioning and competency in all events before they begin to specialize. Too often people focus too closely on the upper body aspects and ignore landings/ take-offs in tumbling and the run-ups in vaulting events - both of which demonstrate a high level of leg power.
In vaulting events, they need maximum running power for the approach and take off. It’s a skill element that needs as much practise as the other ccmponents of training.[/quote]
Exactly. To say that they specialize in one area and lag behind in the others is sort of like saying a guy who can bench 650 lbs lags behind the rest of the major lifts because he can only snatch 350, clean 400, squat 450 and deadlift 500.
[/quote]
Well, that’s it. They are perceived to be afflicted with the athletic equivalent of chicken leg syndrome - which I suppose is due to the spectacle lying in “the upper body events”.
I can happily sit and watch vaulters sprint down the approach:
Tremendous power and acceleration for a non-track event. And from a standing start.
Edit - sorry about the music. I watched the vid on silent.
I think gymnastics is one of those sports that is definitely incredibly tough (difficult, hard, etc) but due to the physical requirements (being on the smaller side) it is hard to compare to other sports. I think of it like jockeys. No disrespect to the sport meant.