“OK, the only reason I took the time to consult this forum is because nobody ever sugar coats anything or tells you what you want to hear.”… “I have to question the motives of those who sympathize with a molester in her case, or who say that it was morally wrong to punish him myself.”
So you’re now going off on the people who are fulfilling the only reason you took your story here? Very strange.
I’m sure that if I were in the same situation, I’d react similarly. I have no problem there. But I do think that there are possible legal ramifications down the line. Be ready. Get your witnesses in line.
Im not antiamerican. I just resent the fact that its the norm there a: to drink yourself till your drop, b: to beat the shit out of anyone. since everyone is encouraging you like its a fucking sport event, that must be the case. did the crowd chear when you hit him? "ooh"s and "aah"s?
(p.s I lived there so I should know)
second of all, take criticism like a man. hear everyone, not only the ones that flatter. you like yourself after beating someone’s face to pulp? even if he deserved it? if the answer is yes, youre a psycho. you see, Ive been in your situation, Ive even killed people. it was in the army but can I ay Im happy about that? fuck no. just an unfortunate situation. got to move on though and I hope you will to.
I think also, that if the rest of your life was not messed up you would have acted up differently, which means he didnt deserve it.
What a tease! I would have made sure the guy finished the act and then cut him up in pieces and put him in the 55 gallon drum next to the dismembered Laotian boy.
If it was a woman who was illegally polishing your pole what would you have done?
Same reaction?
Laid back and enjoyed it?
BTW: Ptdr, the issue was never about whether Scrub is homophobic, the issue is about his reaction to someone performing an illegal act upon it. I’ve known straight guys to get drunk anmd do similar things, doens’t make them gay. Now, in your worldview I can understand how you might reduce arguments to this level, but it’s not the point; this isn’t a morality debate.
iscariot, asking Scrub if he’d beat the hell out of a girl if she got caught doing the same thing isn’t fair.
To start with, many men still treat other men differently than they would women. Many men will not assault a woman for provoking them in a way that they would assault a man for. The whole “don’t hit a girl” thing. Some of us still believe in that, and I would imagine Scrub would be one of them. (By the way, I’d never hit a girl, but I’d definitely restrain one if I had to.)
Also, this is touching on the question of, “would it be rape if you wanted the person to have sex with you.” Let’s hope we don’t go there with this argument. If Brad Pitt broke into the average single American woman’s room in the middle of the night to have sex with her, it’s less likely he’d get kicked out of the bad than if I were the one violating them, but it wouldn’t make eithet Brad or I more or less culpable.
Glute: I hear you, I just disagree with some things. Doesn’t mean I can’t take criticism like a man. When someone calls me an idiot and a loser, I respectfully disagree. I agree w/you on the fact that if I looked for violence that would make me a psycho, but I don’t feel good about any of this. There is definitely a problem in the US w/college kids binge drinking and looking for fights. But I didn’t do this. Also, alcohol-induced violence happens all over the world, not just here.
Despite some of the comments, I have listened to everything that has been said. In fact, I’ve acted on the suggestions to talk to a counselor. None of my friends or family suggested that, but I’m glad I did. I don’t know how to deal with this sort of thing. It might seem lame to consult an internet forum, but hearing things from people who are completely detached from the situation is a valuable thing to me. There are a lot of smart people here and I have been taking into consideration that maybe I have been acting inappropriately. This stuff just doesn’t happen to most people, so maybe there is something about my personality that attracts this type of chaos. Hopefully the counselor will be able to answer that.
At least I don’t need surgery, so I will be able to work out again sooner than I thought.
Is it were a women he would have either a) let it last or b) told her to stop.
First, you don’t hit women and second he could of pressed charges for rape. Remeber, rape works both ways.
Another thing, the guy who said you would have him in jail? I would have the guy who started playing with my cock in jail also. It is NOT a hate crime in this situation. He retaliated. He did not pick on an anonymous gay guy and beat the shit out of him.
To say you would sue him makes me laugh. Everyone these days sues. Make your own money dude. No need to sue because you decided to jerk off a stright guy and he beat your ass.
iscariot: I’m not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that you know straight guys who got drunk and tried to get in an unsuspecting sleeping guy’s pants? How does that not make them gay? Also, I have been in the situation you described with a girl. I actually had to physically remove her from my bedroom because she wouldn’t take no for an answer. She was attractive, but her sluttiness disgusted me. She was also a minor.
Hey cool, we’re getting into some interesting stuff:
Jared, I wasn’t trying to be fair, heh
Think of it in these terms [trying a Matlock cross examination].
You restrain a woman, but beat the shit out of a guy? Sorry, but to my mind that’s b/s. Basically what that says to me is that the gender of the protagonist is allowed to be used as an excuse for your own actions.
Doesn’t wash.
If you can act sensibly in one setting how can you legitimately argue that the more precipitous of your actions in the same situation where the only modifier is the gender of the protagonist is acceptable.
Now, if Scrub, had thumped the person in question immediately on discovery/ in process of pole polishing then no big, instant reaction. However, where the action is considered for a period then acted upon like it was…well, I’m not so sure.
Scrub, who you fuck, or whatever, doesn’t determine your orientation, sex is just plumbing.
SIDE NOTE:
Here’s a question. A lot of people say a guy shouldn’t hit a woman, what if she hits you first? Most woman I’ve asked this say that if the woman starts it- the physical side of the altercation - she’s taking responsibility for her actions and if she wears it, so be it. Most guys say it doesn’t matter who starts it they won’t hit a woman.
iscariot - the problem is that I was debating the wrong thing. In the eyes of the law, there should be no difference in hitting a woman or a man, as that’s what equal rights are all about.
When considering morality, things are a bit different. I thought you were asking the question about his attacker being a girl to find out the reasoning behind him beating the shit out of the guy, be it to protect his manhood or whatever. His reasoning affects how each of us will judge his actions, but will, in most cases like this, have no effect on the legal outcome if his attacker were to press charges.
Response to side note: I’d only hit a girl to save my life or prevent major disfigure/memeberment or that of someone else. In all other cases, she’d just get restrained.
Iscariot…I am not debating the morals of it…just commenting that because SCRUB took the actions he did…that he didn’t do it out of HOMOPHOBIA as often the gay community accuses anyone who opposes their view…of being…
I can’t believe I read the entire post, let alone all the responses!
My 2 cents on the issue.
You were violated. Your reaction was a bit extreme, but it was a “crime of passion” so I doubt you will have any serious penalty should he press charges. Besides, you can just promise to bring his shit out in public by pressing your own charges against him. Strange thing about guys like that… They really want to keep their perversions secret, so the threat of being outed should be enough to keep his mouth shut.
I doubt that you were so traumatized that you need all the extensive therapy everyone is prescribing… The guy grabbed your dick. So what? You beat on him a little – end of story! Get over it. Had you been held down and repeatedly sodomized by a group of men I would say there are grounds for therapy. You weren’t raped… you were fondled. You closed the deal with a good ass whuppin’. And next time you beat someone, work the ribs a lot more. YOu won’t break any knuckles and it will hurt him a lot more.
All that being said, this does sound a bit “highschool”. Perhaps you should consider growing up like others have suggested. I don’t think you are a loser, but you seem to put yourself in some twisted situations, which most people with a modicum of common sense just don’t do. It sounds like you are getting a little thrill out of all your “Jerry Springer” drama. This does not make you a bad person. You are just young. As those of us who have children tend to say… “Make good choices!”
dude, seriously, oh my fucking god, you think you were over the top??? you were losing your mind??? that you blew a gasket?? what the fuck? are you even serious??? i swear to god if something even remotely similar to this happened to me you would need 20 guys to stop me from killing the guy from the beating i would give him, oh man it would be a freakin mess, i dont think id be able to stop, i think if anything your more reasonable than most because in your situation i think most of us would keep going, or maybe … just me i dont know. Thats fucking disturbing and you can calll it whatever but the dude tried to rape you and he deserves everything he has comin to him, fuck him, how dare he violate you? where did he get the authority to do that? are you even serious??? man im pissed off just from reading this post i mean, wow, im glad it wasnt me because, me drunk+guy trying to rape me would have landed me in jail and the other dude in the emergency room if not in the cemetery. I gotta stop thinking about this its only pissin me off even more… wow
and no im not on steroids…
peace
Couple quick observations from behind the desk at the ol’ law office:
In pragmatic terms, the “take it to the authorities” angle would have almost certainly been useless if the molester were to have denied it, unless there was another witness. Combine the lack of evidence with the fact that the only witness, Mr. Scrub, was arguably still intoxicated and just waking up from a deep sleep (meaning the defense lawyer would argue that his ID of the perp, which would be the only one, was faulty), and the prosecutor would likely decline to even bring charges (remember, the standard for a criminal conviction is “beyond a reasonable doubt”). The fact someone else woke up with his pants down, presumably after a night of debauchery, is very weak circumstantial evidence at best, and might be excluded as prejudicial. As would, almost assuredly, the roommates’ suspicions of the molester’s homosexuality. He might have a slightly better chance of getting monetary damages in a civil suit, as the standard of guilt is lower (preponderance of the evidence), but he would have to prove damages.
Basically, given the circumstances, Scrub had the choice of taking his own action, which he did, or going to the authorities and seeing nothing happen. Either the prosecutor won’t bring charges, or the police won’t even “waste their time” investigating (as happens with many stolen cars or other stolen property cases). In theory, we should all take our disputes to the authorities, and the law can punish those who choose not to do so. The problem is, it can be awfully hard to get redress.
The whole “restrain a woman but hit a guy” concept is actually enshrined in the law of self defense, albeit indirectly. One can only defend oneself with the appropriate level of force, usually defined as force on the level of the threat. Obviously, most guys pose a bigger threat than most girls, just in terms of the physical harm they could do you in ordinary circumstances. Example: A big guy theatens to hit you and pulls back his arm, and you punch him as hard as you can – that would be like force – a petite woman does the exact same, and you probably have no self-defense claim if you hit her as hard as you could.
You generally don’t get the benefit of any sort of cooling off period, even if you are “in shock.” There is a body of law in most jurisdictions that allows a reduction from murder to manslaughter for killing a spouse if you walk in on infidelity, but even that doesn’t allow for any sort of “shock” or cooling-off period – the action has to be instantaneous. As for provocation for an assault, you would need a sypathetic jury, which you might find in this case – but the principle is not enshrined in the law.
Of course you’re going to go fucking ballistic if it’s a GUY. Every discussion always has somebody screaming “homophobe!” like an idiot, when it’s completely unjustified.
Not only are you being RAPED, but it’s by someone who isn’t even your ‘sexual preference’. Is that worse? Of course it is! Does that mean you actively hate gay people? Uh, no.
It’s a whole hell of alot more “wrong” (from the victims perspective) to be raped from someone of the ‘unpreferred sex’, than by someone of the sex you prefer. Isn’t that pretty obvious?
(And yes, I made a point of keeping that generic, so it applies both ways, so spare me the ‘homophobe’ rhetoric)
PS iscariot: my ‘balls’ comment was meant partially in jest, but was also making a point. You flew off the handle , not me. You had absolutely no basis for judging my intelligence other than the fact that you were angry.
Mr Boston Sir: Sure the police and legal system would have done nothing - that’s why we have them
Somehow though I think they perhaps can be seen a more of an analogy for self-control and self-possession.
This homophobe angle is weird - the T-Mag forum is littered with homophobes but I haven’t seen any comments, especially from scrub that indicated that he acted out of a homophobic reaction, he acted becasue he was violated. You don’t have to agree with his actions to understand it.
Dave: what point was your comment ostensibly making - other than the imputation that I didn’t have any balls; which if you want to draw a causal line could only be taken from what I said previously.
Yes, it was very ho ho ho in a look I’ve got a magazine with nekkid women in it - sigh.
And if you think that’s flying off the handle/ angry then you’d better toughen up; to quote a certain pre-green gentleman; you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry [Hell, you probably wouldn’t like me if I was happy, but who cares?].
Scrub, you said earlier in a post to Glute spanker that you felt bad about this whole situation, and through your tone, and comments like “this Chaos” you seem to feel pretty bad about where you are in your life right now. I also went through a point in my life that I felt the Chaos. I beleive it may happen to all or at least most of us. It may happen more than once to some and it may last a really long time for others. As I looked back and evaluated my choices I made through this period of my life, I found that ALL of MY OWN ACTIONS and decisions directly led me into this chaos. I Also stayed in control and did things right and soon I had turned some pretty nasty situations into some of the things that I most cherish today. please do me another favor, stop wasting your money on damn counseling you don’t need it. Stay strong brother, gather strenght from your fellow t-peoples and act right, you’ll whip this slump.
Leave it to the courts? You won’t often get justice there in cases like this, sad though it is to admit. If you don’t get justice what is the molester going to learn? He’s not going to be motivated to change by no action from the court. A few stitches in his melon might actually get his attention. It’s called aversion therapy.
I doubt if the guy had called the cops if Scrub would have even been arrested. A coworker caught a guy breaking into his car and beat the guy pretty badly. Once the cops arrived and took the perp into custody Jason said, “I guess now you’re going to arrest me for kicking his ass”. The cop responded, “You caught him in the act, you’d have to beat him to within an inch of his life before we’d consider that going too far”. “Could you please let him out of the car for a few minutes?”
The cops started laughing and declined the request.
Violence isn’t always the answer but sometimes it’s what does the job. In some cases it’s faster, more effective, and better in the long run than going to court.
I caught three different guys trying to steal things from me. The first one was when I was 22 or so. We had a confrontation from which he left with a broken radius and ulna in his right forearm. No police were involved but I’m guessing he was detered from thievery at least for the 6 weeks he was going to be in a cast.
The second tried to break into my truck in my yard. I was 31 then. With the help of my tenants he was subdued and the cops were called. 15 minutes later a deputy arrived and took the guy in. A week later my tenant recognized the guy in a store and talked to him. He found out the cop took him a couple of miles away and let him out at a strip mall. The worst thing the guy had to say about his experience was that he got a lump on his skull during the scuffle and that coming back wasn’t on his agenda.
The third guy was when I was about 37. I snagged him up and kept him docile for the 15 minutes it took until the cops arrived. Since I didn’t wait until he had actually broken the window to my truck there wasn’t really much they could do but lock him up overnight and impound his car. He’d apparently been doing this for a while because the store manager from whom I borrowed a phone said they’d been having a rash of car break ins in the preceding weeks. In retrospect I should have fucked him up and let him go and saved the cops the drive in traffic and the paperwork.
I really don’t think practicing catch and release on criminals is going to deter crime.
