The More I Work Arms, the More They Shrink

Training Bodybuilding
81

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
Cprimero wrote:
Get your bench to 350+

What does your training split look like at the moment?

Monday/Wednesday/Friday
20rep squat increasing 5pounds every day
straight arm bar pull over: 1x20

Pullups/dips (dips I don’t do it anymore as it make me feel as I did nothing on legs, etc. I think that is blood leaving legs and rushing to other bodyparts, crazy tougths of mine)

Leg Press 3x8-10
(I do the first and adjust the weight up acordingly)
standing Leg curls 3x5-8
standing Calf raise 3x24 (8 Open toes, 8 closed, 8 straight)
Hack Squat 4x3-5
If I survive: ligth deadlift.

All done in controlled way, pauses at least 15seg no more than 45 depending on the excercise.

Tuesday/Thursday
I switch this every week, One week chest on tuesday, other week back

Chest (A):
DB Press increasing weight 3x10-8-5
DB Flies 3x8
DB Curls: 1x5
close grip bech: 3x8
Dips / Tricep overhead extension (Superset)
DB Hammer Curls: 1x5
Pull over acrros the bench 3x10
Peck deck

Chest (B):
Bench press 4x5
Incline bench press: 4x8
Decline bench press: 3x8
DB Flies 3x8
PeckDeck (Superset): 3x (1x5 heavy, 1x8 lighter with pause on contraction).
Cable flies: to failure.

Back:
Superset 3x
1 Pull ups (as many as possible)
1 pull downs close grip

Superset 3x
Bent over rows bar, shoulder width
Bent over db rows, to failure

T rowing machine just to let the traps hold the weight

Deadlifts at the end on tuesday and thursday, adding 5pound every week.

Saturdays:
I try new excercises or do something i felt did not work on week days, mostly i do shoulders emphasizing the posterior and lateral. My goal is to do it with no traps involving.

Every morning I do push up using db on my hands (I have a problem in my wrist from the trainer guided days, it is a little painfull at the triquetum)
I do a tri-set in three positions:
Open arms, close to the sides of chest and high over my head, like bridge.

I was doing the cardio part of P90X on mornings, but it forced me to eat a lot more, so I stoped, but kempo is great, because get back flexibility. and I saw some improvement on arms and back.

I take a animal pak every morning and this month I started using BCAA before lift. I eat protein in animal or powder every 2 hours. I already wrote about.

[/quote]
And this isn’t working?

82

[quote]derek wrote:
I honestly don’t believe that you NEED direct arm work. At least not yet.

Think about this, when your rows fail it’s your biceps actually reaching failure, same with chins.

When you bench, it’s usually your triceps hitting the wall, same with other presses.

So if you’re hitting chins and rows and several forms of presses, I think you can devote either less time in the gym or more time and energy on the presses and rows. [/quote]

I will take it.

I am just trying to increase the gains, there are gains, modest, but gains.

83

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
Cprimero wrote:
Get your bench to 350+

And this isn’t working?
[/quote]

it is working so wonderfully that i posted pics too early. (silly me).

I am just looking to increase the arms gains, maybe beyond what is possible, because now i think it is strongly related to weight gain.

84

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

And this isn’t working?
[/quote]

If he wasn’t taking measurements so often that he was noting changes in body water and glycogen storage in his measurements, he wouldn’t be this turned around.

The human body is in a constant state of flux for the most part, trying to find homeostasis. Taking measurements so frequently that all you are measuring is that natural flux defeats the purpose of noting long term changes in lean body mass.

Muscular body parts shouldn’t even be measured more than once a year in my honest opinion. It should be measured even less than that as a beginner.

Focus on the mirror, the scale and the weights you use as a sign of progress.

85

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:

And this isn’t working?

If he wasn’t taking measurements so often that he was noting changes in body water and glycogen storage in his measurements, he wouldn’t be this turned around.

The human body is in a constant state of flux for the most part, trying to find homeostasis. Taking measurements so frequently that all you are measuring is that natural flux defeats the purpose of noting long term changes in lean body mass.

Muscular body parts shouldn’t even be measured more than once a year in my honest opinion. It should be measured even less than that as a beginner.

Focus on the mirror, the scale and the weights you use as a sign of progress.[/quote]

Thanks and I know you are rigth, but I don’t “read” the “today stock” I see the trend, if the las 30 days measurements stays the same, the muscle is not growing.

i think it is something that force the muscle to destroy itself to keep working. it is just a b.s. theory. like catabolism is started when I do arm and muscle is used instead of nutrients. I eat different depending on my day and checking my logs, I tend to be in “maintenance” (on that days) maybe I am too low on cals and got not enough food. or legs, using all the glycogen and left nothing for arms. It sounds crazy but i find no explanation. i will take out the “maintenance” days. Just growing days on my plan.

86

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:

And this isn’t working?

If he wasn’t taking measurements so often that he was noting changes in body water and glycogen storage in his measurements, he wouldn’t be this turned around.

The human body is in a constant state of flux for the most part, trying to find homeostasis. Taking measurements so frequently that all you are measuring is that natural flux defeats the purpose of noting long term changes in lean body mass.

Muscular body parts shouldn’t even be measured more than once a year in my honest opinion. It should be measured even less than that as a beginner.

Focus on the mirror, the scale and the weights you use as a sign of progress.[/quote]
fully agreed. I giggle at the “let’s pump up yo and take our measurements” and even then, the tape is angled and sagging. The scale and the notebook are a much better barometer.
“dude I lost my pump”. Human cartoons. Just need clown pants, hair gel, a mullet, and supplements.

87

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:

fully agreed. I giggle at the “let’s pump up yo and take our measurements” and even then, the tape is angled and sagging. The scale and the notebook are a much better barometer.
“dude I lost my pump”. Human cartoons. Just need clown pants, hair gel, a mullet, and supplements.
[/quote]

the clown pants make me think on coleman pants.

I never measure after workout (waste of time).
i always measure first thing on the morning (twice a week)

88

[quote]juanjromero wrote:

i always measure first thing on the morning (twice a week)

[/quote]

Either stop that…or stop asking questions.

89

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
Monday/Wednesday/Friday
20rep squat increasing 5pounds every day
straight arm bar pull over: 1x20

Pullups/dips (dips I don’t do it anymore as it make me feel as I did nothing on legs, etc. I think that is blood leaving legs and rushing to other bodyparts, crazy tougths of mine)

Leg Press 3x8-10
(I do the first and adjust the weight up acordingly)
standing Leg curls 3x5-8
standing Calf raise 3x24 (8 Open toes, 8 closed, 8 straight)
Hack Squat 4x3-5
If I survive: ligth deadlift.

All done in controlled way, pauses at least 15seg no more than 45 depending on the excercise.
[/quote]

I haven’t looked at the original “20-rep squat” routine in a while, but that just looks like way too much volume to me (and the pull-ups/dips are most likely causing you to overtrain your arms).

Why not just do the 20-rep squats (forget the pull-overs unless you are actually doing the 20-rep program itself), the leg curls and the calf raises. Focus on getting those lifts as strong as possible.

Wait, so do you alternate these two routines? Like one week you’ll do A and the next you’ll do B?

Also, not to sound like a dick but this looks like your classic “Muscle Rag” routine. Way too much volume (IMO) for someone at your level and too much focus on fluff exercises.

Finally, why are you doing DB curls during the A routine, when it’s supposed to be a “chest” workout?

So you do deadlifts on both days every week?

Trying new exercises is fine, but keep in mind you don’t grow in the gym, you grow once you give your body enough time and nutrients to repair and rebuild itself stronger/bigger. Which brings me to your next statement.

Bad idea, especially if you are trying to build muscle. If all you wanted was to get good a push-ups, then ok, this might work. But basically you are continually breaking down your chest/shoulders/triceps muscles and never giving them enough time to recover and grow.

Early morning cardio can be a good thing (lots of benefits that I’m not going to go into atm), but from my understanding P90X focuses more on high intensity cardio, which (in contrast to what some people say) I don’t think is the best way to go if you are trying to build muscle.

Not only is it harder on your CNS, but it also uses glucose (sugar) as it’s primary fuel source (the same fuel source you need for resistance training). All that’s going to do is to leave you with less glycogen (stored glucose) to fuel your weight training workouts. And possibly lead once again to insufficient recovery.

Why don’t you try one of the following splits:
Mon-Push (chest, shoulders, triceps, quads, calves)
Tues-Pull (Back, Biceps, forearms, hamstrings)
Wed-Off
Thurs-Push
Fri-Pull
Sat & Sun-Off

Mon-Upper (upper body)
Tues-Lower (lower body)
Wed-Off
Thurs-Upper
Fri-Lower
Sat & Sun-Off

Mon-Push (chest,shoulders,triceps)
Tues-Off
Wed-Pull (back, biceps, forearms)
Thurs-Off
Fri-Legs (quads, hamstrings,calves)
Sat & Sun-Off

I really don’t think you need to get more specialized than these at this point in your training.

Pick 1 solid exercise for each muscle group (maybe 2 if you do the last option) that works well for your body, and try to get brutally strong on it. Forget the morning push-ups (once again if BB’ing is your goal), but you can do early morning light cardio (steady state) if you want to.

Or, you can try the “Starting Strength” routine by Mark Rippetoe.

90

[quote]Professor X wrote:
juanjromero wrote:

i always measure first thing on the morning (twice a week)

Either stop that…or stop asking questions.[/quote]

LOl, yes.

91

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
nichaaron wrote:
not to lead this thread stray,but would this man be any relations to you?

Cousin. But he is a beliver on get huge first and bodybuild later.[/quote]

you are a good sport my man,really I like that

I would say just keep working on things and try not to be so critical about measurments right now.and eat more,(but clean)
I am a real beleiver in the
starting strength 5x5 program try and look that up,its a few exersizes mainly compound stuff anf it works very well for being so simple.
that and ripptoes these are both simple and very effective.

92

Ok, first, i will take the Rippetoe advice as a law ( a friend of mine has insisted so much, but it has been hard to find.

I don’t do dips/pulls anymore, (I asked about this on other thread) I am already doing as you say, just legs as hard as possible.

about chest, I do it because I had a hard time benching and shifted to db just to get stronger enough, I was an skinny fat guy before, with no sport background, my chest consisted on a thin fiber as thick as a pen, I laugh when i think about. I use db for atacking different angles, and bar just to make it grow i go heavy on bar.

About the morning push ups, it make me feel awake, is correct what you said, besides it increases my food requirements.

I left p90x, I just do the kempo video when I feel in mood. it is a remaining from my beach body time. I don’t do it anymore in consistent way. you explained very good the whys.

this thread has turned really valuable to me and I am very grateful to all of you that made an effort to help me.

93

eat a lot + lots of chinups

94

[quote]juanjromero wrote:

Man, i am already doing 20rep squat, big (to my size) deadlifting and getting strenght. it is just working on advance for the days to come. But thanks for your words of encourage.[/quote]

Dude, 20 rep squats arent going to make you grow right now!! You need to overload the shit out of your CNS. Start doing reps of 3-5 with as much weight as you can handle on the big lifts. No I don’t have scientific studies and all that shit to quote and attach to back up what I’m saying, but from the way you look and the way you describe your training, you just have to keep trying to lift more weight.

The reason why you don’t see huge guys doing this type of stuff is because they’ve already trained like this in the past to get to where they are at now, and loading a bar with enough weight to challenge there bodies in this manner is more dangerous at that point than helpful.

Make your goal to be able to deadlift 405 pounds for a set of 3. Once you get to this point, you WILL have gotten noticably bigger. I am 99.999999999 percent sure of this.

95

you measure 2x/wk? Do you really think you’re going to see a bit of difference in circumference measurements while gaining?

I’m with Prof X on this one, maybe not as long as a year, but every 3-6 months can at least provide some feedback and be long enough to have change take place.

96

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
you measure 2x/wk? Do you really think you’re going to see a bit of difference in circumference measurements while gaining?

I’m with Prof X on this one, maybe not as long as a year, but every 3-6 months can at least provide some feedback and be long enough to have change take place.[/quote]

i don’t want to talk about this matter anymore. if you want we can pm about to explain you.

97

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
you measure 2x/wk? Do you really think you’re going to see a bit of difference in circumference measurements while gaining?

I’m with Prof X on this one, maybe not as long as a year, but every 3-6 months can at least provide some feedback and be long enough to have change take place.

i don’t want to talk about this matter anymore. if you want we can pm about to explain you.[/quote]

I want you to stick around and post your progress in a year or two.

98

[quote]mthomps wrote:
juanjromero wrote:

Man, i am already doing 20rep squat, big (to my size) deadlifting and getting strenght. it is just working on advance for the days to come. But thanks for your words of encourage.
[/quote]

dude, it is awesome how that routine slightly changed my body, but changed it. i know you may be sceptical. but I have pics. bad ones (cell phone). I see the muscles on my legs popping out and cutting. those were not like that 1 month ago.

I already went trough that phase (3-5) from february to date.

I know that big guys did it, that is why I am doing it.

I am doing the 20 rep and DLs, to increase my 1RM. it was stalling because i was weak on back and legs. the more i deadlift, the better I squat, I am deadlifting since may.

that is my inmmediate goal already. not from today, from june.

I 100% agree with you.

=================

I don’t know, but I figure you think I have not done my homework before coming here. I will post in other message how did I evolve to make you clear why am I bothering so much.

99

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
Man, i am already doing 20rep squat, big (to my size) deadlifting and getting strenght. it is just working on advance for the days to come. But thanks for your words of encourage.

dude, it is awesome how that routine slightly changed my body, but changed it. i know you may be sceptical. but I have pics. bad ones (cell phone). I see the muscles on my legs popping out and cutting. those were not like that 1 month ago.

[/quote]

Yes, 20 rep squats WILL make you grow “right now”. Too much history and my own success to be skeptical.

Keep going on them buddy.

How much weight have you added to the squats since you started? Have you been adding the 5lbs per session?

100

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jp_dubya wrote:

Focus on the mirror, the scale and the weights you use as a sign of progress.[/quote]

this is my june’s bodybuilding lesson.